173 réponses à ce sujet

[Zakatak757]

didymos1120 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I imagine it was drawing the dark energy from its own reserves of element zero. Thats why I think its more likely the process is intentional - the Relays need a massive supply of element zero to keep running, and the Reapers aren't around often to 'top them up' so have to make eezo in vast quantities each time they return.

Eezo is not a fuel.  It doesn't get "used up".  I don't know why so many people think it does.

The fuel is Helium-3 and Deuterium, right? ME fields don't move the ship, plasma does. I think the Alliance uses antimatter as an 'afterburner' of sorts for combat too.

This man is correct. You don't lose Eezo as you use it. I think the only reason you would need X amount of Eezo is to make bigger ME fields. That said, Eezo might have a half-life and lose potency after a certain amount of time.

Modifié par Zakatak757, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:50 .

[CptBomBom00]

So what, Dholem is being effect by this dark energy, and what happens to it when do reapers finally arrive, will it turn into super nova and destroy heastorm or will it create enough eezo for the reapers to use against organics, and by this I mean to mutate them.

[Someone With Mass]

Biotics would probably get brain damages if their eezo nodes could be used up.

[Candidate 88766]

didymos1120 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I imagine it was drawing the dark energy from its own reserves of element zero. Thats why I think its more likely the process is intentional - the Relays need a massive supply of element zero to keep running, and the Reapers aren't around often to 'top them up' so have to make eezo in vast quantities each time they return.

Eezo is not a fuel.  It doesn't get "used up".  I don't know why so many people think it does.

Yes it does. Its a bit like coal -  a small input of heat releases the thermal energy in the coal, but that energy is used up. Likewise, an input of electrical energy into eezo will release dark energy, but there isn't an unlimited supply of dark energy in the eezo - if eezo could somehow store infinite energy, it would violate physics and there would be no requirement for eezo mining, as the tiniest amount could power a ship forever.

[Sgt Stryker]

Zakatak757 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I imagine it was drawing the dark energy from its own reserves of element zero. Thats why I think its more likely the process is intentional - the Relays need a massive supply of element zero to keep running, and the Reapers aren't around often to 'top them up' so have to make eezo in vast quantities each time they return.

Eezo is not a fuel.  It doesn't get "used up".  I don't know why so many people think it does.

The fuel is Helium-3 and Deuterium, right? ME fields don't move the ship, plasma does. I think the Alliance uses antimatter as an 'afterburner' of sorts for combat too.

This man is correct. You don't lose Eezo as you use it. I think the only reason you would need X amount of Eezo is to make bigger ME fields. That said, Eezo might have a half-life and lose potency after a certain amount of time.

In principle, any method of propulsion would work. This includes primitive chemical rockets, H2/O2 thrusters, ion drives, or plasma fusion torches. And yes, you're right, state-of-the-art military vessels use antiproton thrusters.

I don't know if eezo is unstable over long time scales. I'm tempted to say that it isn't because there are planets that have eezo deposits that were spilled there millions of years ago from previous extinction cycles, and that eezo is still around.

[didymos1120]

Zakatak757 wrote...



The fuel is Helium-3 and Deuterium, right? ME fields don't move the ship, plasma does. I think the Alliance uses antimatter as an 'afterburner' of sorts for combat too.

Yeah, they mention a number of different ways to provide thrust in the Codex.  The Normandy is actually an exception though:  it can manipulate ME fields in such a way that forward velocity is derived solely from them.  They never discuss it outside the Codex though.

That said, Eezo might have a half-life and lose potency after a certain amount of time.

If it does have one, it's an extraordinarily long one: the 37-million-year-old derelict's ME core was perfectly functional.  Plus, there's all the ~50,000 Prothean tech that still functions fine (like the Conduit, the security system Liara triggers on Therum, etc.), and the eezo stash that was found on Mars and kicked off human expansion.

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:57 .

[Candidate 88766]

Arcian wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I imagine it was drawing the dark energy from its own reserves of element zero. Thats why I think its more likely the process is intentional - the Relays need a massive supply of element zero to keep running, and the Reapers aren't around often to 'top them up' so have to make eezo in vast quantities each time they return.

Eezo is not a fuel.  It doesn't get "used up".  I don't know why so many people think it does.

Because they think it makes the ship move.

I'm well aware that eezo isn't the ship's fuel - eezo is what provides the dark energy required to create mass effect fields.

A lump of eezo cannot contain an unlimted amount of dark energy - that violates fundamental physics laws. 

[didymos1120]

Candidate 88766 wrote...
Yes it does. Its a bit like coal -  a small input of heat releases the thermal energy in the coal, but that energy is used up. Likewise, an input of electrical energy into eezo will release dark energy, but there isn't an unlimited supply of dark energy in the eezo - if eezo could somehow store infinite energy, it would violate physics and there would be no requirement for eezo mining, as the tiniest amount could power a ship forever.

The energy is coming from the the supplied electricity.  The eezo converts it into dark energy.  If it didn't, then no one could be a biotic for more than a very short time, because the amount of eezo in their bodies is tiny.  This is also why the strength of the current affects the strength of the ME field produced.  You may also want to take note of the fact that not once, not ever, in any of the games or novels or comics does anyone even imply that it behaves like a consumable fuel.

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:05 .

[Someone With Mass]

Candidate 88766 wrote...
I'm well aware that eezo isn't the ship's fuel - eezo is what provides the dark energy required to create mass effect fields.

A lump of eezo cannot contain an unlimted amount of dark energy - that violates fundamental physics laws. 

Unless the eezo acts like a converter for the electricity.

[Candidate 88766]

didymos1120 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
Yes it does. Its a bit like coal -  a small input of heat releases the thermal energy in the coal, but that energy is used up. Likewise, an input of electrical energy into eezo will release dark energy, but there isn't an unlimited supply of dark energy in the eezo - if eezo could somehow store infinite energy, it would violate physics and there would be no requirement for eezo mining, as the tiniest amount could power a ship forever.

The energy is coming from the the supplied electricity.  The eezo converts it into dark energy.

The eezo would be consumed in the process. Take a light bulb for example - the metal filament converts heat energy into light, but will eventually be used up. Even if it takes a long time, entropy prevents any process form being 100% efficient. The eezo will eventually be consumed by the process. We know it takes a long time - the Derelict Reaper was still going strong - but it won't last forever.

Essentially, the process is electrical energy + element zero = dark energy

What you're saying is electrical energy = dark energy, which is impossible.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:06 .

[CptBomBom00]

Going back to biotic's using eezo, human body does generate electricity and that's why biotic can function, I think at least that is correct, and if I'm wrong please correct me.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Some time ago i posted a theory i have about the process taken place with Dholen is really the creation of a reaper element zero core - It seems possible since element zero are dispersed by supernovas there must be some sort of process in stars that allows them to create element zero.

So i thought that it works like this - Somebody (possibly collectors in this case) introduce some kind of reaper magic tech that spurs the star to start fabricate element zero and since there is a whole goddamn lot of electricity in stars the more fabricated the lover the mass of the star becomes - the star starts the shed it's mantle because it doesn't have the mass/gravity to hold it (effect seen on haestrom) until the final point where the star has shed all of it's mass and only a core of element zero remains.

Voila one reaper core created and the funny thing that on a galactic scale the whole process aren't all that destructive - come a few 100 million years and all the shred matter from the star will again be a star or perhaps part of a stellar nursery - come to think of it we almost always visit nebula's in mass effect , perhaps there are some connection there.

[didymos1120]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The eezo would be consumed in the process. Take a light bulb for example - the metal filament converts heat energy into light, but will eventually be used up. Even if it takes a long time, entropy prevents any process form being 100% efficient. The eezo will eventually be consumed by the process. We know it takes a long time - the Derelict Reaper was still going strong - but it won't last forever.

That's not remotely the same thing as being a fuel that is somehow "burned".  In fact, it needn't have anything to do with the process of creating ME fields at all.  Any loss of eezo (which all the evidence suggests is extremely neglible) could be due to simple mechanical factors (microscopic bits getting flaked off, etc.)

[Zakatak757]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

Going back to biotic's using eezo, human body does generate electricity and that's why biotic can function, I think at least that is correct, and if I'm wrong please correct me.

Why else would the machines in The Matrix grow humans to use as powerplants?

That's pretty much correct. How and where a biotic can choose to use dark energy confuses me though.

[didymos1120]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Essentially, the process is electrical energy + element zero = dark energy

What you're saying is electrical energy = dark energy, which is impossible.

No, that's not what I'm saying.  What exactly do you think "convert" means?  And you do know energy gets converted to other forms of energy all the time via all sorts of mechanisms, right? 

[Sgt Stryker]

Maybe the eezo works like a catalyst in a chemical reaction?

[Candidate 88766]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Some time ago i posted a theory i have about the process taken place with Dholen is really the creation of a reaper element zero core - It seems possible since element zero are dispersed by supernovas there must be some sort of process in stars that allows them to create element zero.

So i thought that it works like this - Somebody (possibly collectors in this case) introduce some kind of reaper magic tech that spurs the star to start fabricate element zero and since there is a whole goddamn lot of electricity in stars the more fabricated the lover the mass of the star becomes - the star starts the shed it's mantle because it doesn't have the mass/gravity to hold it (effect seen on haestrom) until the final point where the star has shed all of it's mass and only a core of element zero remains.

Voila one reaper core created and the funny thing that on a galactic scale the whole process aren't all that destructive - come a few 100 million years and all the shred matter from the star will again be a star or perhaps part of a stellar nursery - come to think of it we almost always visit nebula's in mass effect , perhaps there are some connection there.

Interesting theory, but thats not quite how it would work. Dark energy is simply accelerating Dholen's ageing process, meaning it will go supernova far earlier than it should've. When it does go supernova, all solid matter within a certain range (for example Haestrom's crust) will be affected by the energy and some of that will become eezo (as eezo is made when solid matter is affected by a supernova's energy, and this is seemingly the only way it is created).

It quite possibly could be to create an eezo core for a new Reaper, I agree wtih you there, but your idea of how it would happen doesn't quite make sense within the lore.

[Zakatak757]

Is Dholen even big enough to cause a supernova? I know that it is red, but it certainly doesn't look big enough to be supergiant/hypergiant like VY Canis. It's maybe three times the size of the Sun.

[Candidate 88766]

didymos1120 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Essentially, the process is electrical energy + element zero = dark energy

What you're saying is electrical energy = dark energy, which is impossible.

No, that's not what I'm saying.  What exactly do you think "convert" means?  And you do know energy gets converted to other forms of energy all the time via all sorts of mechanisms, right? 

There is no real life example of one kind of energy being put through an element and emerging as a different kind of energy without the element being affected. There must be a catalyst for the process to occur, and the catalyst here is the element zero. Otherwise, when you put electrcity across eezo you'd just get electricity back. Converting energy requires 3 things - the input, the energy to convert it, and the output. The input here is electricity but the energy required to convert this is the chemical energy of eezo; the output obviously being dark energy.

Electricity cannot be magically converted into another form of energy without some other input. If eezo doesn't provide any input into the process then why is it required at all? It isn't doing anything. What you're saying is that electricity goes into eexo, dark matter comes out, but the eezo is unchanged. Firstly, how does that process work and secondly if the eezo is unchanged then why is it needed in the first place - it hasn't done anything.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:21 .

[Someone With Mass]

Zakatak757 wrote...
How and where a biotic can choose to use dark energy confuses me though.

That answer is easy.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Candidate 88766 wrote...
Interesting theory, but thats not quite how it would work. Dark energy is simply accelerating Dholen's ageing process, meaning it will go supernova far earlier than it should've, When it does go supernova, all solid matter within a certain range (for example Haestrom's crust) will be affected by the energy and some of that will become eezo (as eezo is made when solid matter is affected by a supernova's energy, and this is seemingly the only way it is created).

It quite possibly could be to create an eezo core for a new Reaper, I agree wtih you there, but your idea of how it would happen doesn't quite make sense within the lore.

The process I'm suggesting would very much look like the star is accelerating towards supernova while it really isn't, The shedding of the mantle, The experiences magnetic eruptions and increased solar output would all happen in the scenario i propose, In fact the loss of mass would make it look exactly like a pre-supernova process up until the point where a nova "should" start show signs of core collapse, in this case i set forth it will just continue to expand matter.

The Dark energy picked up around the star would be the effect of the electrified element zero doing it's work within the star.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:30 .

[CptBomBom00]

OK. guys so something introduces this acceleration thing to Dholen sun and it starts to age quicker than it should be, there fore , if this something does this wouldn't this be somehow connected to the mass acceleration gun, which TIM spoke to Shep.

[Candidate 88766]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
Interesting theory, but thats not quite how it would work. Dark energy is simply accelerating Dholen's ageing process, meaning it will go supernova far earlier than it should've, When it does go supernova, all solid matter within a certain range (for example Haestrom's crust) will be affected by the energy and some of that will become eezo (as eezo is made when solid matter is affected by a supernova's energy, and this is seemingly the only way it is created).

It quite possibly could be to create an eezo core for a new Reaper, I agree wtih you there, but your idea of how it would happen doesn't quite make sense within the lore.

The process I'm suggesting would very much look like the star is accelerating towards supernova while it really isn't, The shedding of the mantle, The experiences magnetic eruptions and increased solar output would all happen in the scenario i propose, In fact the loss of mass would make it look exactly like a pre-supernova process up until the point where a nova "should" start show signs of core collapse, in this case i set forth it will just continue to expand matter.

The thing is, you said in your theory that some magic Reaper tech makes the star start producing eezo but thats not how it works - eezo is only produced when solid matter is affected by a supernova's energy. All the Reapers need to do is make a star with orbiting planets go supernova, and a lot of the matter on those planets will be converted. As far as we know there is no technology that can actually replicate the process of making eezo, particularly within a star - there is no solid matter to convert once its gone supernova.

[Candidate 88766]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

OK. guys so something introduces this acceleration thing to Dholen sun and it starts to age quicker than it should be, there fore , if this something does this wouldn't this be somehow connected to the mass acceleration gun, which TIM spoke to Shep.

Not necessarily - the mass accelerator gun was just a big cannon, something that literally accelerates mass to a velocity that will cause a colossal release of energy upon impact. The process in Dholen refers to the acceleration of its ageing process, not the acceleration of velocity.