173 réponses à ce sujet

[knightnblu]

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay. As such, this means that Cerberus could not be behind the de-stabilization of the star because they did not exist then and humanity had no idea about the other races because the Charon relay had not been discovered.

As for TIM's office hovering over the star, that is highly unlikely. The system is home to billions of Geth and is patrolled regularly by them. According to the codex, only advanced espionage drones are capable of surviving in Geth space for any length of time and TIM's hideout is large. If stealth technology works like it does on frigates, then TIM risks being spotted and destroyed by an implacable foe.

Since no other stars have been detected decaying as rapidly, it means that the dark energy is focused on that particular star. The question then becomes one of why. As red giants expel their masses, one possible explanation could be that the Reapers or Geth are collecting resources for some reason and the supernova is just a side effect. Another possible explanation could be that a supernova is needed to fuel the energy requirements for something and that brings us back to the op's hypothesis.

According to Lavoisier, all matter in the universe must be preserved. Therefore, all the eezo in existence is still in existence. This means that the Reapers have another need for an increased amount of eezo. Given the giant mass effect cores of the Reaper body, it is not unlikely that Haestrom's sun is going supernova with the intent of aiding in the creation the new Reapers during the next reaping cycle.

This would allow for eezo to be available for future sentient races, allow for the creation of new Reapers, and would likely not harm developing life in the galaxy because there is little life in that region of the galaxy.

I think that the op's hypothesis makes sense.

[marstor05]

I would (and have before) suggest that they are trying to manipulate the star in a way that will do their job for them - such as creating a gamma ray burst. For that tho they would also need a black hole ,or by manipulating a neighbouring star into becoming a black hole..... oh hang on.

[onelifecrisis]

knightnblu wrote...

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay.

If that's true then it also rules out the Geth as suspects (not that they were ever really serious candidates, but this rules them out completely).

[snfonseka]

Who knows it may be a way to build something like Einstein - Rosen bridge.

[Dean_the_Young]

onelifecrisis wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay.

If that's true then it also rules out the Geth as suspects (not that they were ever really serious candidates, but this rules them out completely).

It's also not true, because Tali specifically mentions that the sun wasn't like that during the Quarian settlement period.

[Someone With Mass]

knightnblu wrote...

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay. As such, this means that Cerberus could not be behind the de-stabilization of the star because they did not exist then and humanity had no idea about the other races because the Charon relay had not been discovered.

As for TIM's office hovering over the star, that is highly unlikely. The system is home to billions of Geth and is patrolled regularly by them. According to the codex, only advanced espionage drones are capable of surviving in Geth space for any length of time and TIM's hideout is large. If stealth technology works like it does on frigates, then TIM risks being spotted and destroyed by an implacable foe.

Since no other stars have been detected decaying as rapidly, it means that the dark energy is focused on that particular star. The question then becomes one of why. As red giants expel their masses, one possible explanation could be that the Reapers or Geth are collecting resources for some reason and the supernova is just a side effect. Another possible explanation could be that a supernova is needed to fuel the energy requirements for something and that brings us back to the op's hypothesis.

According to Lavoisier, all matter in the universe must be preserved. Therefore, all the eezo in existence is still in existence. This means that the Reapers have another need for an increased amount of eezo. Given the giant mass effect cores of the Reaper body, it is not unlikely that Haestrom's sun is going supernova with the intent of aiding in the creation the new Reapers during the next reaping cycle.

This would allow for eezo to be available for future sentient races, allow for the creation of new Reapers, and would likely not harm developing life in the galaxy because there is little life in that region of the galaxy.

I think that the op's hypothesis makes sense.

One problem with that theory:

Haestrom's sun can't go supernova.

From what I understand, it has about the same mass as our sun, and our sun won't go supernova either when it dies, because it does not have enough energy to do it.

For a sun to go supernova, it'll need at least nine times as much mass as our sun currently possesses.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .

[didymos1120]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay.

If that's true then it also rules out the Geth as suspects (not that they were ever really serious candidates, but this rules them out completely).

It's also not true, because Tali specifically mentions that the sun wasn't like that during the Quarian settlement period.

Read the planet description of Haestrom.

[Candidate 88766]

onelifecrisis wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Hey, you won't find me complaining about the lack of science in a space opera, but you and Candidate just spent several pages arguing about exactly that: the science.

I thought you were talking about Dholen specifically, not ME's made-up physics in general.

I'm just trying to figure out what the conclusion is (see my edit above). OP offered a theory, then followed several pages of massive overthinking (of the sort that BW's space opera simply does not deserve IMO) and I'm curious to know what the conclusion is, given that Candidate has conceded that his theory doesn't make sense "scientifically" (let's not get into semantics here).

We were dicussing whether eezo gets used up in the process of creating dark energy, but I've conceded that it most likely doesn't.

The theory I put forward in the OP is that the Reapers may be trying to make more eezo by increasing the ageing process of stars to cause them to go supernova, creating more eezo. Originally I thought the extra eezo would be to 'top-up' the supply in Relays, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

However, each new Reaper would require a large supply of eezo so the Reapers will need to create more to ensure they can build more Reapers, so the theory I put forward still stands up. Each new wave of civlization will also need access to enough eezo to make widespread use of mass effect technology, so the Reapers will want to ensure there is enough to go around - and it seems that the only way to do so is to make stars go supernova, somehow.

And I agree that we were overthinking it a lot, but I had nothing better to do at the time.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 31 octobre 2011 - 04:54 .

[Candidate 88766]

didymos1120 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

edit - I need to work out how to quote multiple people in one post...

You have to do it manually.  The forum software is nowhere near that helpful.

Urgh, this forum really needs updating.

[Dean_the_Young]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay.

If that's true then it also rules out the Geth as suspects (not that they were ever really serious candidates, but this rules them out completely).

It's also not true, because Tali specifically mentions that the sun wasn't like that during the Quarian settlement period.

Read the planet description of Haestrom.

I am completely and utterly wrong on this.

Thanks for the correction, Diddy.

[onelifecrisis]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay.

If that's true then it also rules out the Geth as suspects (not that they were ever really serious candidates, but this rules them out completely).

It's also not true, because Tali specifically mentions that the sun wasn't like that during the Quarian settlement period.

Read the planet description of Haestrom.

@Dean
That Tali quote is what I was wondering about.

@didymos
Ah, the planet description. That description also says there is zero atmosphere IIRC...

[onelifecrisis]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Hey, you won't find me complaining about the lack of science in a space opera, but you and Candidate just spent several pages arguing about exactly that: the science.

I thought you were talking about Dholen specifically, not ME's made-up physics in general.

I'm just trying to figure out what the conclusion is (see my edit above). OP offered a theory, then followed several pages of massive overthinking (of the sort that BW's space opera simply does not deserve IMO) and I'm curious to know what the conclusion is, given that Candidate has conceded that his theory doesn't make sense "scientifically" (let's not get into semantics here).

We were dicussing whether eezo gets used up in the process of creating dark energy, but I've conceded that it most likely doesn't.

The theory I put forward in the OP is that the Reapers may be trying to make more eezo by increasing the ageing process of stars to cause them to go supernova, creating more eezo. Originally I thought the extra eezo would be to 'top-up' the supply in Relays, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

However, each new Reaper would require a large supply of eezo so the Reapers will need to create more to ensure they can build more Reapers, so the theory I put forward still stands up. Each new wave of civlization will also need access to enough eezo to make widespread use of mass effect technology, so the Reapers will want to ensure there is enough to go around - and it seems that the only way to do so is to make stars go supernova, somehow.

And I agree that we were overthinking it a lot, but I had nothing better to do at the time.

Ahh, right, thanks for the summary.
*thumbs up*

[knightnblu]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

The Quarians colonized Haestrom in order to study the stars unusual decay.

If that's true then it also rules out the Geth as suspects (not that they were ever really serious candidates, but this rules them out completely).

It's also not true, because Tali specifically mentions that the sun wasn't like that during the Quarian settlement period.

I believe that you are mistaken. Tali said that the star destabilized at a swifter rate than what it was when the Quarians were on Haestrom indicating that the ageing was accelerating. While I am not 100% certain, I believe that I remember correctly that the Quarians did indeed settle the world in order to study the star. Otherwise, why would there have been that observatory collecting data on the star?

[knightnblu]

Doh! Didn't see the correction above. Nevermind.

[25ryanator]

If the Reapers created the Mass Relays and the Citadel then surely they can accelerate the ageing of Dholen to create element zero.So I think they are deliberately accelerating the ageing of Dholen to create element zero for themselves in preperation for the war with organic species of the Galaxy.

[Anacronian Stryx]

25ryanator wrote...

If the Reapers created the Mass Relays and the Citadel then surely they can accelerate the ageing of Dholen to create element zero.So I think they are deliberately accelerating the ageing of Dholen to create element zero for themselves in preperation for the war with organic species of the Galaxy.

That's kind of weird leap in logic, The relays and the citadel are feats of construction while messing with a star is a completely different kind activity - it's pretty much like saying that since USA build the pentagon and the golden gate bridge I'm sure they can make a tsunami whenever they want - completely unrelated.

[25ryanator]

To get a star to deliberately go supernova would require massive ammounts of energy and mass to push a star to the supernova threshold and it would take a long time to do that. But the Reapers seem quite capable of doing that in a reasonable amount of time.But there are many things that could go wrong during the process and after such as,the star reaches the threshold too quickly before the Reapers can get to a safe distance,the star might reach the threshold but fail to go supernova,the star might go supernova but fail to create any element zero at all and finally the Reapers might expend all their energy and the star won't reach the threshold and go supernova.So alot of things could go wrong and the Reapers will be back at square one.

[25ryanator]

I think you have a good point there Anacronian it does make sense.I was just pointing out that it seems unlikely that it could happen on its own since the mainstream geth did not do it. Cause mainstream geth preserve worlds and stars not destroy them. And the Heretic geth do not seem to have the level of technology to do it.

Modifié par 25ryanator, 01 novembre 2011 - 05:04 .

[CptBomBom00]

What if Dholen goes as black hole and starts to destroy both organics in that space and reapers?

[sedrikhcain]

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

That's a nice twist but I don't want to see it happen. It would suck every ounce of romance out of the game for me.

[didymos1120]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

What if Dholen goes as black hole and starts to destroy both organics in that space and reapers?

It's too small to become a black hole (though I suppose it could be artificially induced via some SF technology).  Also, black holes don't work that way. 

[Sgt Stryker]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

What if Dholen goes as black hole and starts to destroy both organics in that space and reapers?

Even if it were to become a black hole, the only way it would be a danger is if ships got too close.

[IanPolaris]

didymos1120 wrote...

CptBomBom00 wrote...

What if Dholen goes as black hole and starts to destroy both organics in that space and reapers?

It's too small to become a black hole (though I suppose it could be artificially induced via some SF technology).  Also, black holes don't work that way. 

Technically it's also too small to become a supernovae (and type II supernovae are created when the star's core collapses to form a proto-neutron star).  However, that's assuming there are no outside influences.  Compress any amount of matter to a sufficiently high density and it will tear a hole in space-time and become a blackhole.  The minimum size is for bodies to do that only because of unassisted gravity.  If the OP is right, gravity is getting an assist.

That said, it's true that just compressing a star to be a blackhole wouldn't a-priori kill off all life (organic and synethic) and indeed the gravitational profile of the system would hardly change at all (of course the resulting supernovae to get there would be hard on the system real-estate...but that's a different matter).

-Polaris

[Candidate 88766]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

25ryanator wrote...

If the Reapers created the Mass Relays and the Citadel then surely they can accelerate the ageing of Dholen to create element zero.So I think they are deliberately accelerating the ageing of Dholen to create element zero for themselves in preperation for the war with organic species of the Galaxy.

That's kind of weird leap in logic, The relays and the citadel are feats of construction while messing with a star is a completely different kind activity - it's pretty much like saying that since USA build the pentagon and the golden gate bridge I'm sure they can make a tsunami whenever they want - completely unrelated.

If think its more that if the Reapers have the technology to make the Relays in the first place, and put a base in the galactic core, then they're the most likely species to have the ability to manipulate dark energy in a star's core

[GETH1183]

IanPolaris wrote...

111987 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

GETH1183 wrote...

Did we all forget about the Alpha Relay from Arrival? Dr. Kenson mentioned that if certain controls were adjusted on the Alpha Relay, it was possible to send one directly to the Citadel or Earth. We theorize that Nazara manipulated the controls for the Iera system's mass relay in order to attack the Citadel by surprise. Without Nazara to return the mass relay to normal functionality, the excess dark energy produced has affected the interior of Dholen.

Possibly, but how would a Relay in Batarian space affect a star in the Far Rim? Any dark energy produced would travel at sub-FTL speeds, so would take millenia to reach Dholen. The chance of all the energy going to that specific point is pretty small as well.

Not necessarily.  Assuming that Dark Energy is anything like the hypothetical Negative Energy that physicists now believe exists, it might cause hyper-spatial infaltion and that can be (and often is) FTL.  To wit, information (including mass-energy transfer) can't travel faster than light, but distortions in space-time itself (and Dark Energy and the mass effect might be exactly this) can and often do.

-Polaris

That doesn't explain why all the dark energy would all travel to one random, lone star nowhere close to the main hub of galactic civilization.

Oh, I wasn't trying to justify the rubber science in Mass Effect.  I was only pointing out that it's a mistake to assume that "Dark Energy" is limited to sub-light speeds (esp when it enables FTL travel).

-Polaris

We are not suggesting the Alpha Relay had anything to do with Dholen's rapid rate of decay. We only suggested that with the information about the Alpha Relay and the capability of traveling directly to the Citadel could be used on other mass relays. Assuming Nazara used that function on Iera system's mass relay to attack the Citadel without the Citadel Fleet recieving a warring prior, then we could assume only Nazara and the other Old Machines knew how to use the  feature. With the destruction of Nazara and the Old Machine invasion impeded, there were no Old Machines capable of returning the mass relay in the Iera system back to normal functionality. We did not say the Alpha Relay had anything to do directly with Dholen's rapid aging.