193 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Arcian wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

No outside influences, no alliances, no diplomacy, no rules but these rules.

Final Destination.

Fox only?

[Quole]

Asari would have the best ground forces considering all of them are biotics. Not sure about fleet.

Modifié par Quole, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:24 .

[Wulfram]

If "no rules" means no citadel conventions, then humanity would probably be knocked out of the war pretty quickly. We'd be obliged to surrender the moment a decent number of enemy dreadnoughts entered the solar system, since a dreadnought can basically destroy a city very 2 seconds, and we don't really have the fleet numbers to match the Turians and Asari.

Our only option would be to hold a large proportion of our fleet in defence of Arcturus and Earth and trust that our enemies would feel that they'd take losses which they couldn't afford when facing the other. But that would leave our colonies exposed, which would cripple our economy and lead to us losing in the long run anyway.

[General User]

Wulfram wrote...

If "no rules" means no citadel conventions, then humanity would probably be knocked out of the war pretty quickly. We'd be obliged to surrender the moment a decent number of enemy dreadnoughts entered the solar system, since a dreadnought can basically destroy a city very 2 seconds, and we don't really have the fleet numbers to match the Turians and Asari.

Our only option would be to hold a large proportion of our fleet in defence of Arcturus and Earth and trust that our enemies would feel that they'd take losses which they couldn't afford when facing the other. But that would leave our colonies exposed, which would cripple our economy and lead to us losing in the long run anyway.

What makes you believe the bolded?  Do you mean the turians and asari together?

[Golden Owl]

Liec wrote...

Humans win, because the other sides don't have a Commander Shepard.

This...

Without Shep?...hmmmm...a toss up between Turians and Humans....the Asari wouldn't stand a chance in hell up against these two super military powers.

[Yezdigerd]

General User wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

If "no rules" means no citadel conventions, then humanity would probably be knocked out of the war pretty quickly. We'd be obliged to surrender the moment a decent number of enemy dreadnoughts entered the solar system, since a dreadnought can basically destroy a city very 2 seconds, and we don't really have the fleet numbers to match the Turians and Asari.

Our only option would be to hold a large proportion of our fleet in defence of Arcturus and Earth and trust that our enemies would feel that they'd take losses which they couldn't afford when facing the other. But that would leave our colonies exposed, which would cripple our economy and lead to us losing in the long run anyway.

What makes you believe the bolded?  Do you mean the turians and asari together?

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16 salarians, and 8 humans.
The Asari is also the economic powerhouse of the galaxy, A war of attrition is likely to end badly for their enemies.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:17 .

[General User]

What about cruisers, frigates or carriers? What about fixed defenses? What about missiles and drones? How are they positioned? Who controls the relay junctions and has the internal lines?  What other commitments do they have?

There's alot more to a navy than the number of big guns it has.

Modifié par General User, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:48 .

[Wulfram]

The dreadnought counts that we've got are the most straightforward evidence of Alien fleet superiority.  Though Alliance Carriers might counter that a little.

Less straightforwardly but more compellingly, the Turians as an established space empire must have resources far outweighing that of our own - and given how they are characterised it is impossible to conclude that they would not devote at least as much if not more of their resources to their navy.  Their own empire and their role as the Council's peacekeepers would also compel them to have a far larger fleet than the Alliance - which is itself clearly rather overstretched given it's inability to actually prevent pirate raids on human worlds.

The Asari probably aren't highly militarised, but the dreadnought count, as well as the Destiny Ascension, suggests that they haven't neglected their fleet at least.

[Yezdigerd]

The codex states that the dreadnought is "the ultimate arbiter of space warfare" That it's unthinkable to fight them with something except another dreadnought. Which is the reason their numbers are regulated.
I'm not aware of any numbers for cruisers and frigates etc, but I guess it's reasonable to assume their numbers match the capital ships. Which would make the Turian fleet 6 times larger then the human, and the Asari 3 times larger .(depending on if the Destiny's Ascension still exist.)
Carriers were supposed to be a human speciality though. I don't know of any figures for their numbers or capabilites.

[General User]

The turians role as the Council's peacekeepers actually works against them too. They have the largest fleet, but also the most extensive commitments. They can't pull those forces without hurting themselves.

Political considerations should also factor. Taetrus(?) is just the case in point to show that the Turian Hierarchy is far from a monolithic entity. The asari are also divided into a number of republics whose ultimate unity is up for question. In the asari's case those republics control their own military units  Internal divisons are less of a concern fo rthe Alliance.

Modifié par General User, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:20 .

[Cpt-Brit]

I'd like to say Humans but I think the Turians would win just through attrition. I mean think about it the Turians fought the Krogans to a standstill before the Salarians finished them off with the genophage... Yes Humans would provide a good fight for them but I think unless Carriers are only slightly inferior to Dreadnaughts (Which i doubt) then we'd be beat... Unless of course they can modify all the Alliance ships with the Technology on the Normandy SR2 lol

[mango smoothie]

Zakatak757 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

         Humans would win hands down. Asari and Turians don't really think outside the box, and tend to stick to a certain type of position in battle. Because of this the council rely on each other, example Turians are front lines heavy type troops, Asari are Special Forces, and Salarians are intelligence.
         Humans are good at all those, and have divisions in all those aspects giving them more options. so the only way for the Turians or Asari to win would be if they joined together. Heck even if they did that Humanity would bring in their great diplomacy skills and get other races to join them.

Humans? Diplomacy? Lawl. Not our forte.

And I specifically said no outside interference. No other races. Even if I allowed it, the other races would join the Turians/Asari any other day of the week. The Volus are jealous of our rise to power because we did what they couldn't in 1/100th of the time, and are trade partners with the other 2. Nobody else gives a damn enough to help us.

Under extreme circumtances humans can be great diplomats. Also in the bolded part the diplomacy thing I mentioned was a side note. If you read what I was mainly saying I was pointing out that Asari and Turians rely on each other, but if they were against each other than they become very weak. That is why I think Humanity would win a war like that.

[ajaxbr]

Who would win? Whatever side that has enough funds to hire Drell assassins and Krogan battlemasters.

[ShadyKat]

Turians would win. Humans wouldn't go down without a fight, but no way they win. All Turian have military training every single one! What percentage of humans join the military?.... Maybe 10%?

Turian also have a superior fleet. Humans have heart, but that won't be enough to take down a superior enemy.

[Youknow]

Probably the turians. They seem more seasoned with space military tactics. And they have the ships to work with too.

[100k]

Turians definitely. They are superb shock troopers, very military oriented, and have incredibly powerful fleets.

Humans vs asari is a bit more fair.

[Undead Han]

Probably the Turians

Maybe the Asari

Absolutely no chance for humanity



That would be the case at least if we pretend this is a real universe for a moment, and the humans don't have 'special' plot protection. Without plot protection humanity would get steamrolled by either power. As of Mass Effect 2 humans have only been exploring outside their own star system for thirty some years. The Asari meanwhile have been exploring and colonizing the galaxy since before Alexander the Great was born, and the Turians gained a Council seat while the Vikings were raiding the coasts of Britain in longships.

In other words, the population pool and resources available to both the Turian Hegemony and the Asari Republics would dwarf that available to humanity, many times over. In a protracted war humanity would have zero chance of victory against either faction, unless this hypothetical war occurs a date many centuries after the Shepard trilogy, when human colonization may have levelled the playing field.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:55 .

[Esbatty]

Whoever loses the Quarians win when they swing the Flotilla by to stock up on salvage.

[tobynator89]

Humans would be pasted first, mass conscription does not work in high tech warfare. Add to that less combat experience and general troop skill and an overwhelming disadvantage in numbers and production capacity and disipline and we're looking at a slaughterhouse.

After that, my bet would be that the turians would win the war but fail to gain any advantage from it due to inability to overwatch the massive asari populations.

[Sajuro]

The Asari would mind secks their way to victory
But seriously, war... war never changes

[jamesp81]

The Asari would be crushed. They simply do not have the mindset or institutional knowledge for large scale conventional warfare, which is mentioned in the codex.

It would be the Turians or the Alliance. What it would boil down to is how effective carriers are vs turian ships, and whether the Alliance's unpredictable fighting style and superior tactics and strategy could balance out the Turians much larger inventory of heavy capital ships.

I'm calling it 65/35 in favor of the Turians, with the Alliance inflicting a really nasty kill/loss ratio against the Turians, who are basically married to "The Book" when it comes to tactics and strategy.  Turians will take many more losses than the Alliance, but they have the numbers and the will to take those losses and keep fighting.

A lot of other factors would be involved, such as who gets the first good strike in, control of strategic mass relays at the outset of the war, etc.

Modifié par jamesp81, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:57 .

[Asari_Party]

asari or turians (we don't have the exact numbers, only the dreadnought count)

Humans wouldn't stand a chance.

[PPR223]

All depends on how clever the Marshal/Leader of the races are, because it has been shown many times in history that a smaller force can annihilate a much larger one, Spanish Armada would be the best example.

Humans are stubborn, and don't surrender easily when their freedom is threatened. Even if the Turians or Asari did win, they would not be able to hold earth, due to unrest. Besides the Humans defeated the Turians in a battle when they were far less advanced, now they are, or near, equal the Humans could defeat them and the Asari.

[Air36723]

Dreadnoughts are basically battleships in space, great for pounding other dreadnoughts/cruisers and planets but worthless against manueverable opponents. Carriers proved their versatility in WW2 when the American colonel Billy Mitchell proved that planes could sink battleships with fewer casualties. ME space fighters carry javelin disruptor torpedoes like those carried by frigates. you get a swarm of fighters pounding the crap of a dreadnought while your frigates/cruisers and dreadnoughts engage their cruisers and frigates to weaken the anti-fighter defense and you will win. Remember the alliance built carriers because they couldn't build dreadnoughts due to the treaty limiting their numbers...PRIOR to humanity joining the council, since then the alliance has been allowed to build increased numbers of them. However, the number of alliance carriers and the amount of fighters they can carry has never been mentioned.

Carriers are force multipliers, they bring more firepower and flexability then a dreadnought/battleship. Another tidbit, humans have a history of rapidly expanding their military in times of war....WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, etc. America's army prior to WW2 was tiny, we were considered a 4th rate military, after pearl we were one of the largest and our equipment rapidly advanced. There is nothing to state that this tendancy of humanity is or will be gone.

The final fight would be between the humans and turians imho, ultimately it would probably become a stalemate, or a Pyrrhic victory for either side...otherwise known as NOT WORTH IT.