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Salarians.
They would just bomb everyone with genophage and feels sorry later.
Nobody will see it coming.
Who would win this war - Human / Turian / Asari
Débuté par
Zakatak757
, oct. 30 2011 08:48
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#152
Posté 05 février 2012 - 01:11
Phaedon
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I always got the idea that fleets can be transported all at once. I think that Karpyshyn mentions it somewhere in his novels.NPH11 wrote...
It's kind of a hard story to follow from Saren's perspective. The Geth fleets manage to launch a surprise attack on both Feros and Eden Prime. Sovereign and the Geth fleet strike at the Citadel right around the same time Saren travels through the conduit. The timing required for that would've needed to be pretty precise as we know it takes time to travel from relay to relay. Saren and part of the Geth fleet must have travelled to Ilos while Sovereign and the rest of the fleet waited to travel across the relay to the Citadel.
#153
Posté 05 février 2012 - 01:19
tetrisblock4x1
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I think that Saren planned on meeting Shepard on Virmire? if you recall, the council told us that Saren had spies keeping an eye of Shepard, he lets the Normandy touch down on Virmire and then he tries to talk shepard into joining forces.
#154
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:14
Lotion Soronarr
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NPH11 wrote...
At Ilos the Normandy dropped the crew in a Mako and fled back to Arcturus. It faced no resistance as the only ships in the area were Geth dropships which were not prepared to fight back and did not visually scan.
How exactly Normandy got back to fast is an eternal mistery....
#155
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:19
Bleachrude
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Han Shot First wrote...
Probably the Turians
Maybe the Asari
Absolutely no chance for humanity
That would be the case at least if we pretend this is a real universe for a moment, and the humans don't have 'special' plot protection. Without plot protection humanity would get steamrolled by either power. As of Mass Effect 2 humans have only been exploring outside their own star system for thirty some years. The Asari meanwhile have been exploring and colonizing the galaxy since before Alexander the Great was born, and the Turians gained a Council seat while the Vikings were raiding the coasts of Britain in longships.
In other words, the population pool and resources available to both the Turian Hegemony and the Asari Republics would dwarf that available to humanity, many times over. In a protracted war humanity would have zero chance of victory against either faction, unless this hypothetical war occurs a date many centuries after the Shepard trilogy, when human colonization may have levelled the playing field.
THIS
ME has one of the most wanked humanity ever in that in only 30 years, humanity is supposedly the equal of galactic powers that have been around for hundreds of years.
Yet at the same time, ME also has codex entries which explicitly mention that the alliance itself doesn't think it has a chance versus any of the other powers...
Keep in mind that the codex for example explicitly mentions that the asari economy is so large that a simple trade war would shatter humanity while the asari wouldn'te ven notice it.
#156
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:26
WizenSlinky0
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It really depends at what point this war takes place. If it's around the time frame of the games (ie. reapers never happened), the Asari would actually win. Their long life, large economy, and hit and run special OP's are all built around the fact they can outlast any opponent and be patient. They are unlikely to make any rash movements.
In this case, the Turians and Humans are more likely to target each other first, each considering the others fleet as their biggest obstacle. As the war heats up the Asari will simply go from "steady retreat", to feign weakness, into "full on attack".
In this case, the Turians and Humans are more likely to target each other first, each considering the others fleet as their biggest obstacle. As the war heats up the Asari will simply go from "steady retreat", to feign weakness, into "full on attack".
#157
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:29
Thy King
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Interesting discussion between MPH11 and Saphra. I personally think the problem is more diverse.
If i take my lessons from the WW2, the following things are going to be key: Tactics, philosophy, technology, leaders and numbers. I will go over every one of these, even though they are all interdependent!
Tactics: The single most important one is tactics. WW2 has learned us that 1 ship (the USS Enterprise) can be the difference between winning and losing, as long as the correct tactics are deployed (even though it wasn't all tactics though). Also, tactics where, numerous times in various conflicts, the decisive difference between winning and losing. Especially the Israeli conflicts are good examples of this, where a very small force, deployed just right, make the difference, and actually win. Another good example of correct tactics where WW2 aerial combat tactics against the faster Zero fighters in the early years of the war, when allied aircraft weren't a match for them.
The codec showed us that the turians where not prepared for our different tactics, and that we tend to do the 'blitzkrieg' thing, of attacking weakpoints, and then strike behind the enemy lines, gutting the supply lines and such, instead of taking them head on.
Philosophy: This refers to the basic mandate of the fighting force. Again looking at WW2: the Japanese troops favored attack above all else. They where really powerfull at this, but lacked defensive measures in all their designs. The Zero fighters where flying burning deathtraps when shot at, and the carries weren't even armored properly. The philosophy also determines the basic accepted way of thinking within the armed forces. German philosophy was that of integration of different forces, with always the best kind of equipment and tactics. That is why they where so immensly powerfull, and could hold out for years against the combined armies of pretty much most of the world.
Turians tend to be more attack oriented. More Japanese in fighting stile, more fighting to the death. The codec suggests the Asari to be more flexible, and are not really defined in one style (this is one of their stong points)
Technology: Wars are always breading grounds for new technologies. Proper technologies will make a world of difference, this is shown in every conflict that was ever recorded on earth. WW2 (again) was a good example of this. Carrier technology made all the difference. As did radar, rocket, aircraft and tank technology. Humanity makes great strides in just a few years of conflict, advancing in every direction possible. At the start of WW2 we had lightly armorred tracked vehicles that where supposed to be tanks, slow aircraft, and limited radios, early radar, etc. After WW2, we had fully realised radar, assault rifles, proper deadly tanks, jet fighters, ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, etc. Germany held out a lot longer due to their advanced technology tipping the ballance more in their favor. One of the clear downsides for Japan was the lack of radar technology (afaik), however, they where king in night ship battles. US ruled the sea by day, Japan by night.
Asari have spend 3000 years in space, and haven't advanced much. Technology does not appear to be their thing. Even though they are cheating (see the spoilers for more info), i think this is one of their weakpoints. Turians will most likely be on par with humans, but might have a problem with their philosophy here (think japanese technological advancement, which was sourly lacking during the war). Salarians would be king here, but since they are not part of the conflict, i think humans win here.
Leaders: Good leaders make the difference. The reason why we remember names as Montgomenry, Patton, Rommel, Yamamoto, etc, is because they made a difference in clever thinking. Rommel for his tank tactics, Patton for his prowes, Mongomery for his flexibility, and Yamamoto for pearl harbor. I could keep going. Good leaders make every single difference in a fight. Germany had many, so did the US and UK. Japan armed their leaders with swords, which did not help much, but they also fought to the death. If they lost a battle, they where generally lost. Russia got some good leaders too, but only after Stalin was done cleaning house.
Asari are fractured as far as leadership goes. I think they would faulter here too. The Codec learns us that they are clan based, which each their own military. Their society is without a clear leadership structure. Turians have a very good command structure, but might be too rigid on their leadership. 'a turian who hears a bad order will follow it'. This is of course never good. I think Earth is going to take this as well, we tend to be more flexible in leardership, but Turians are going to be a close second.
Numbers: Finally: Numbers. Numbers are only going to be the decisive factor if technolgy and tactics fail. Numbers are both a good thing, and a problem. If you need numbers to win, you might count yourself strong, but you are also going to have lots of casualties. Which means you cannot keep up those numbers in the long run.
Turians defenately have the numbers category easy, since their entire civilisation is military trained. Even though earth can also cough up lots of numbers in several months or years, the Turians will have them available a lot faster. This is the single biggest thread comming from the turians. The asari are the great unknown here. I have not seen any good data on how they handle wars, but since they did have several, they seem to be capable of producing good amounts of soldiers. In the end though, i think all three will be capable of large numbers when wars get truly going.
Verdict: Who would win in my oppinion? Hard to say. A 3 way war is something nearly any super power can handle, but only for a short time. At some point (WW1), you need to focus your supplies and troops at one front, facing one enemy. The winner of this conflict is going to be the superpower that is left alone the longest. However, since the turians are the biggest military by far, and therefore will be considered the biggest thread, they will either be attacking first, or be attacked first, even if it is just to keep them bussy. In the end, to conquer all the terretories of both superpowers, this is going to be an long conflict, and the long term tactics and capabilities of the species is going to be the decisive factor. The asari are here again the unknown: They dont develop fast, but can cheat.
I am going to assume the Salarians keep out of this completely. Turians are more then willing to use genocidal tactics, and the Asari tend to be passive (peace loving, if you will). If the turians use weapons of mass destruction/extermination against the humans, then we will do the same: MAD tactics (Mutually Assured Destruction), meaning the Asari win. However, if the Turians refrain from that, then things become interesing. I think the Turians and Humans are going to slug it out first, on large scale. Difference in tactics and technology will make every difference here, which means stealth and 'blitzkrieg' tactics will hurt the Turians badly (1st contact war). However, if the Turians addapt, any large scale offensive from their end (Japanese/Russian tactics WW2) will hurt the Humans badly. I think long term, the flexibility of human tactics, phylosophy and technological development prowess will eventially defeat the greater Turian military (think Germany in WW2; their combined armed forces + technology advantage), if Humans can manage this before being overrun.
2 things are wildcards that could radically change the conflict outcome: The Asari as a whole, and carriers. The Assari are capable of war, yet currenly rely on Turians and perhaps Humans to do that part of the business. Also the develop rather slowly, and lack leadership cohesion, so i would estimate they would lose to both Humans and Turians, even though they will be challenge.
Carriers however will be the biggest wildcard. If carriers are combined with good fighters that can go to FTL, and you can 'trade' 20-50 fighters or so for 1 dreadnaught, then i think carriers are going to tip the ballence clearly and cleanly in favor for Humans. If carrier combat is basically equal to cruiser warfare with fighters instead of projectiles, then only Stealth technolgy is a true game changer for Humans (for now). This is then going to be one of the biggest threats for the Turians.
In the end, i would go for:
Early war: Turians; Why?
- numbers
- phylosophy (comparible with japanese + Later WW2 soviet)
- tactics (short term)
If humanity/earth is not overrun, and we still have shipjards + a fleet left, then:
Long run: Humans; why?
- Technological prowes
- Tactical flexibility
- Leadership flexibilty
- Design + combat phylosophy (Current day '24 hour reaction force' allied flexible warfare phylosophy + combined armed forces)
Yes, long story, but i found it an interesting subject
Hope you liked the read!
If i take my lessons from the WW2, the following things are going to be key: Tactics, philosophy, technology, leaders and numbers. I will go over every one of these, even though they are all interdependent!
Tactics: The single most important one is tactics. WW2 has learned us that 1 ship (the USS Enterprise) can be the difference between winning and losing, as long as the correct tactics are deployed (even though it wasn't all tactics though). Also, tactics where, numerous times in various conflicts, the decisive difference between winning and losing. Especially the Israeli conflicts are good examples of this, where a very small force, deployed just right, make the difference, and actually win. Another good example of correct tactics where WW2 aerial combat tactics against the faster Zero fighters in the early years of the war, when allied aircraft weren't a match for them.
The codec showed us that the turians where not prepared for our different tactics, and that we tend to do the 'blitzkrieg' thing, of attacking weakpoints, and then strike behind the enemy lines, gutting the supply lines and such, instead of taking them head on.
Philosophy: This refers to the basic mandate of the fighting force. Again looking at WW2: the Japanese troops favored attack above all else. They where really powerfull at this, but lacked defensive measures in all their designs. The Zero fighters where flying burning deathtraps when shot at, and the carries weren't even armored properly. The philosophy also determines the basic accepted way of thinking within the armed forces. German philosophy was that of integration of different forces, with always the best kind of equipment and tactics. That is why they where so immensly powerfull, and could hold out for years against the combined armies of pretty much most of the world.
Turians tend to be more attack oriented. More Japanese in fighting stile, more fighting to the death. The codec suggests the Asari to be more flexible, and are not really defined in one style (this is one of their stong points)
Technology: Wars are always breading grounds for new technologies. Proper technologies will make a world of difference, this is shown in every conflict that was ever recorded on earth. WW2 (again) was a good example of this. Carrier technology made all the difference. As did radar, rocket, aircraft and tank technology. Humanity makes great strides in just a few years of conflict, advancing in every direction possible. At the start of WW2 we had lightly armorred tracked vehicles that where supposed to be tanks, slow aircraft, and limited radios, early radar, etc. After WW2, we had fully realised radar, assault rifles, proper deadly tanks, jet fighters, ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, etc. Germany held out a lot longer due to their advanced technology tipping the ballance more in their favor. One of the clear downsides for Japan was the lack of radar technology (afaik), however, they where king in night ship battles. US ruled the sea by day, Japan by night.
Asari have spend 3000 years in space, and haven't advanced much. Technology does not appear to be their thing. Even though they are cheating (see the spoilers for more info), i think this is one of their weakpoints. Turians will most likely be on par with humans, but might have a problem with their philosophy here (think japanese technological advancement, which was sourly lacking during the war). Salarians would be king here, but since they are not part of the conflict, i think humans win here.
Leaders: Good leaders make the difference. The reason why we remember names as Montgomenry, Patton, Rommel, Yamamoto, etc, is because they made a difference in clever thinking. Rommel for his tank tactics, Patton for his prowes, Mongomery for his flexibility, and Yamamoto for pearl harbor. I could keep going. Good leaders make every single difference in a fight. Germany had many, so did the US and UK. Japan armed their leaders with swords, which did not help much, but they also fought to the death. If they lost a battle, they where generally lost. Russia got some good leaders too, but only after Stalin was done cleaning house.
Asari are fractured as far as leadership goes. I think they would faulter here too. The Codec learns us that they are clan based, which each their own military. Their society is without a clear leadership structure. Turians have a very good command structure, but might be too rigid on their leadership. 'a turian who hears a bad order will follow it'. This is of course never good. I think Earth is going to take this as well, we tend to be more flexible in leardership, but Turians are going to be a close second.
Numbers: Finally: Numbers. Numbers are only going to be the decisive factor if technolgy and tactics fail. Numbers are both a good thing, and a problem. If you need numbers to win, you might count yourself strong, but you are also going to have lots of casualties. Which means you cannot keep up those numbers in the long run.
Turians defenately have the numbers category easy, since their entire civilisation is military trained. Even though earth can also cough up lots of numbers in several months or years, the Turians will have them available a lot faster. This is the single biggest thread comming from the turians. The asari are the great unknown here. I have not seen any good data on how they handle wars, but since they did have several, they seem to be capable of producing good amounts of soldiers. In the end though, i think all three will be capable of large numbers when wars get truly going.
Verdict: Who would win in my oppinion? Hard to say. A 3 way war is something nearly any super power can handle, but only for a short time. At some point (WW1), you need to focus your supplies and troops at one front, facing one enemy. The winner of this conflict is going to be the superpower that is left alone the longest. However, since the turians are the biggest military by far, and therefore will be considered the biggest thread, they will either be attacking first, or be attacked first, even if it is just to keep them bussy. In the end, to conquer all the terretories of both superpowers, this is going to be an long conflict, and the long term tactics and capabilities of the species is going to be the decisive factor. The asari are here again the unknown: They dont develop fast, but can cheat.
I am going to assume the Salarians keep out of this completely. Turians are more then willing to use genocidal tactics, and the Asari tend to be passive (peace loving, if you will). If the turians use weapons of mass destruction/extermination against the humans, then we will do the same: MAD tactics (Mutually Assured Destruction), meaning the Asari win. However, if the Turians refrain from that, then things become interesing. I think the Turians and Humans are going to slug it out first, on large scale. Difference in tactics and technology will make every difference here, which means stealth and 'blitzkrieg' tactics will hurt the Turians badly (1st contact war). However, if the Turians addapt, any large scale offensive from their end (Japanese/Russian tactics WW2) will hurt the Humans badly. I think long term, the flexibility of human tactics, phylosophy and technological development prowess will eventially defeat the greater Turian military (think Germany in WW2; their combined armed forces + technology advantage), if Humans can manage this before being overrun.
2 things are wildcards that could radically change the conflict outcome: The Asari as a whole, and carriers. The Assari are capable of war, yet currenly rely on Turians and perhaps Humans to do that part of the business. Also the develop rather slowly, and lack leadership cohesion, so i would estimate they would lose to both Humans and Turians, even though they will be challenge.
Carriers however will be the biggest wildcard. If carriers are combined with good fighters that can go to FTL, and you can 'trade' 20-50 fighters or so for 1 dreadnaught, then i think carriers are going to tip the ballence clearly and cleanly in favor for Humans. If carrier combat is basically equal to cruiser warfare with fighters instead of projectiles, then only Stealth technolgy is a true game changer for Humans (for now). This is then going to be one of the biggest threats for the Turians.
In the end, i would go for:
Early war: Turians; Why?
- numbers
- phylosophy (comparible with japanese + Later WW2 soviet)
- tactics (short term)
If humanity/earth is not overrun, and we still have shipjards + a fleet left, then:
Long run: Humans; why?
- Technological prowes
- Tactical flexibility
- Leadership flexibilty
- Design + combat phylosophy (Current day '24 hour reaction force' allied flexible warfare phylosophy + combined armed forces)
Yes, long story, but i found it an interesting subject
Hope you liked the read!
#158
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:33
Elvis_Mazur
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The humans would be the first ones to fall, for obvious reasons.
But I can't decide between the Asari and the Turians. Maybe they would wipe out each other and we would have no winners?
But I can't decide between the Asari and the Turians. Maybe they would wipe out each other and we would have no winners?
#159
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:41
Arkitekt
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I think batman would best superman, no problem.
Oh wait, wrong thread.... or is it?
Oh wait, wrong thread.... or is it?
#160
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:49
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Just one thing to remember about numbers: they are just a burden if you don't have the means to transport them anywhere.
#161
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:50
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Bleachrude wrote...
Yet at the same time, ME also has codex entries which explicitly mention that the alliance itself doesn't think it has a chance versus any of the other powers...
No it doesn't.
If the Alliance was weak it woudn't be able to "bully" anyone or force concessions out of the Council.
#162
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:52
Mike Shepard
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Three way tie
Turians crush Asari with superior tactics
Asari Crush Humans with epic biotics
Humans Crush Turians with superior firepower
Turians crush Asari with superior tactics
Asari Crush Humans with epic biotics
Humans Crush Turians with superior firepower
#163
Guest_darkness reborn_*
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:54
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And Iron Man would best both of them.Arkitekt wrote...
I think batman would best superman, no problem.
Oh wait, wrong thread.... or is it?
#164
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:55
The Spamming Troll
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asari.
they can all just learn the ability dominate and take over the galaxy with their mind melding power.
just as long as enemy protections arent active ofcorse.
they can all just learn the ability dominate and take over the galaxy with their mind melding power.
just as long as enemy protections arent active ofcorse.
#165
Posté 05 février 2012 - 03:56
The Spamming Troll
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Arkitekt wrote...
I think batman would best superman, no problem.
Oh wait, wrong thread.... or is it?
name one thing batmans better then superman at???
#166
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:03
Ixalmaris
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Mike Shepard wrote...
Three way tie
Turians crush Asari with superior tactics
Asari Crush Humans with epic biotics
Humans Crush Turians with superior firepower
What?
Humans don't have superior firepower to Turians.
Also I think people value carriers too much. In WW2 they did not have 100% accurate AA (Lasers) and the (ME1) codex flat out says that fighters have horrendous casualties when doing torpedo runs. And their torpedos do not even destory ships, only enable frigates to destroy the targets.
Also, unlike on earth, fighters have a rather short range compared to a dreadnought.
Modifié par Ixalmaris, 05 février 2012 - 04:07 .
#167
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:07
Bleachrude
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Why exactly would Turians actually lose on "flexibility". The codex explicitly mentions that Turians have lots of flexibility with regard to their troops in that squad leaders are able to call down both artillery and air support. Assuming that we're using NATO designations, that shows a lot more trust in the capability of their NCOs when compared to say what we have current day (only a platoon leader - 1st or 2nd Lt would have that authority )
Secondly, the codex ALSO mentions that the Turians have a VASTLY larger economy when compared to the alliance (not as big as the asari) meaning that in any war of attrition, they would win versus anyone not named Asari.
As an aside, a war with the asari would crater the Alliance economy. The volus (thus the turians) and the asari literally have the alliance by the ballsack IMO given that what would eventually win any war is whose economy is better/bigger.
The germans pretty much demolished the russians in the early part of the war but once the vastly larger russian industry kicked into gear, even in weird AUs where the Western allies never enter the war, nobody thinks the germans actually had a chance of totally subduing Russia.
People tend to forget that "not as flexible" does not mean "totally rigid and hidebound". Hell, across ME1 & ME2, we meet more non-conformist turians than pure "by the book" ones.
Technical prowess: Again, why are we assuming that Turians are less inclined to this? The only thing the turians might be accused of is being less entrepreneurial oriented than the other races (did we forget that the original stealth ship was a joint turian/human project AND the fact that in 8 months, has a new weapon system up and running?
(Are we also assuming that the alliance just starts applying Thanix cannons to their ships or that they even have it? - Personally, this always struck me as weird in that Garrus had enough connections to get the specs for the thanix.)
Quite frankly, unless ME is a setting where humans have a much higher birth rate than everyone else, I don't see how humans could ever dominate galactic society?
Secondly, the codex ALSO mentions that the Turians have a VASTLY larger economy when compared to the alliance (not as big as the asari) meaning that in any war of attrition, they would win versus anyone not named Asari.
As an aside, a war with the asari would crater the Alliance economy. The volus (thus the turians) and the asari literally have the alliance by the ballsack IMO given that what would eventually win any war is whose economy is better/bigger.
The germans pretty much demolished the russians in the early part of the war but once the vastly larger russian industry kicked into gear, even in weird AUs where the Western allies never enter the war, nobody thinks the germans actually had a chance of totally subduing Russia.
People tend to forget that "not as flexible" does not mean "totally rigid and hidebound". Hell, across ME1 & ME2, we meet more non-conformist turians than pure "by the book" ones.
Technical prowess: Again, why are we assuming that Turians are less inclined to this? The only thing the turians might be accused of is being less entrepreneurial oriented than the other races (did we forget that the original stealth ship was a joint turian/human project AND the fact that in 8 months, has a new weapon system up and running?
(Are we also assuming that the alliance just starts applying Thanix cannons to their ships or that they even have it? - Personally, this always struck me as weird in that Garrus had enough connections to get the specs for the thanix.)
Quite frankly, unless ME is a setting where humans have a much higher birth rate than everyone else, I don't see how humans could ever dominate galactic society?
#168
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:09
Bleachrude
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Bleachrude wrote...
Yet at the same time, ME also has codex entries which explicitly mention that the alliance itself doesn't think it has a chance versus any of the other powers...
No it doesn't.
If the Alliance was weak it woudn't be able to "bully" anyone or force concessions out of the Council.
Taken from the codex
Economydata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditThe asari possess the largest single economy in the galaxy. They have extensive trade and social contacts. Craft guilds, such as those within the cities Serrice and Armali, hold a virtual monopoly on advanced biotic technology. Given their political influence, an embargo by the asari would prove disastrous to the Alliance.
If a simple trade embargo is considered a disaster for the alliance, then yes, the alliance has NO CHANCE against the Asari.
As others have mentioned, the only way humans can bully the council is quite frankly ludicrous and only works in a universe where every singler ace has a LOWER birth rate than humans AND by author fiat.
Modifié par Bleachrude, 05 février 2012 - 04:12 .
#169
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:11
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Bleachrude wrote...
Taken from the codex
Economydata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditThe asari possess the largest single economy in the galaxy. They have extensive trade and social contacts. Craft guilds, such as those within the cities Serrice and Armali, hold a virtual monopoly on advanced biotic technology. Given their political influence, an embargo by the asari would prove disastrous to the Alliance.
That is not nearly what you implied with your previous post.
It is also an entry two/three-years out of date.
#170
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:14
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We all know Humanity will win after Cerberus make a Reaper Terminator shooting laser thingy. Turians will get smash by it because they try to ram Reapers instead of shooting. Tactical Ram!
Modifié par Imperium Alpha, 05 février 2012 - 04:16 .
#171
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:17
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Bleachrude wrote...
Why exactly would Turians actually lose on "flexibility". The codex explicitly mentions that Turians have lots of flexibility with regard to their troops in that squad leaders are able to call down both artillery and air support. Assuming that we're using NATO designations, that shows a lot more trust in the capability of their NCOs when compared to say what we have current day (only a platoon leader - 1st or 2nd Lt would have that authority )
This is a war that will be fought in space, not on the ground.
Let the turians rule the ground and we'll rule the air. We'll then bomb them into ashes.
bleachdwhater wrote...
Technical prowess: Again, why are we assuming that Turians are less inclined to this?
They way are portrayed. That applies to all the aliens, really. They've stagnated.
bleachdude wrote...
Quite frankly, unless ME is a setting where humans have a much higher birth rate than everyone else, I don't see how humans could ever dominate galactic society?
It wouldn't be hard actually. The Alliance economy is growing rapidly and if you are in a Renegade universe especially the turians are losing ground. Already some volus are looking to split and who do you think they'll align with when they do?
Once that happens the turians are finished and without them the old Council triumvirate has no teeth. The salarians are already inclined to ally with humanity and a weak turian and asari faction won't appeal to them.
You forget that even with their larger economies the other races don't seem inclined to use them in any aggressive way now. Once the asari lost the DA they pretty much gave up all together. The turians can do nothing but grumble and complain.
Bare in mind that either way they lost a lot more ships at the Battle of the Citadel than the Alliance did.
#172
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:17
Mike Shepard
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Ixalmaris wrote...
Mike Shepard wrote...
Three way tie
Turians crush Asari with superior tactics
Asari Crush Humans with epic biotics
Humans Crush Turians with superior firepower
What?
Humans don't have superior firepower to Turians.
Also I think people value carriers too much. In WW2 they did not have 100% accurate AA (Lasers) and the (ME1) codex flat out says that fighters have horrendous casualties when doing torpedo runs. And their torpedos do not even destory ships, only enable frigates to destroy the targets.
Also, unlike on earth, fighters have a rather short range compared to a dreadnought.
OK I admit I was attempting to inject humor into this by simplification.
I will now be serious.
The Asari, while powerful, do not strike me as a race that would be quick to rush off to war. however I think if pressed the Asari -- yes the Asari -- would win this war. Their biotic prowess is a force to be reckoned with and they could likely crush the spines of the humans and Turians.
or they'd just entrance them with their lovely shade of blue and get them to embrace eternity and not go to war.
#173
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:19
SNascimento
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Turians.
.
I mean, Turian population must be in the hundeads of billion, and they must have at least 30 ships to each alliance vessel.
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And Asari would lose to both.
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I mean, Turian population must be in the hundeads of billion, and they must have at least 30 ships to each alliance vessel.
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And Asari would lose to both.
#174
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:19
Wulfram
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Thy King wrote...
Interesting discussion between MPH11 and Saphra. I personally think the problem is more diverse.
If i take my lessons from the WW2, the following things are going to be key: Tactics, philosophy, technology, leaders and numbers. I will go over every one of these, even though they are all interdependent!
You neglect the most important factor, the economy. Which decides most extended wars. If the enemy can outbuild you in Dreadnoughts and/or Carriers - whichever concept proves superior in actual combat - then you're pretty much stuffed unless you've got an overwhelming tech advantage, which no one appears to, or if you have a big enough advantage in starting forces to win an early decisive victory - which the Turians might have.
The Asari have the biggest economy, but also will surely take the longest to mobilise it fully behind the war effort. So for me it becomes a question of whether the Turians can take out the Asari in the first few years while leaving enough in reserve to keep the Humans under control.
A big factor on which we (or at least I) know very little is the lay out of major worlds and relays. How many human worlds are effectively safe so long as Arcturus stands, and how many are exposed? Are there multiple potential invasion routes between Asari and Turian space, or just one?
#175
Posté 05 février 2012 - 04:24
Bleachrude
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Bleachrude wrote...
Taken from the codex
Economydata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditThe asari possess the largest single economy in the galaxy. They have extensive trade and social contacts. Craft guilds, such as those within the cities Serrice and Armali, hold a virtual monopoly on advanced biotic technology. Given their political influence, an embargo by the asari would prove disastrous to the Alliance.
That is not nearly what you implied with your previous post.
It is also an entry two/three-years out of date.
Of course the alliance would be scared stiff if the thought of a war with the asari came about. When a trade embargo can wreck your economy, how exactly are you going to beat them?
Even if somehow you gave Canada ME tech and had them attack the US, Canada simply doesn't have the population and its economy is too tied to the US for anything but a win for the US. Hell, you could throw in the entirety of the UK, Australia into the mix and the US would still win.
As for being old, um, do you think that in two years, that somehow the alliance has closed the gap?
As an earlier poster mentioned, unless you give humans plot protection AND make the opponents stupider than Yogi bear, there should be no way realistically that humans have ANY chance.
