109 réponses à ce sujet

[ReallyRue]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

maxernst wrote...

That's actually the problem for me.  The DA:O companions have a clear reason to stick together, whereas in DA2, they really don't.  And as much as Morrigan and Alistair disliked each other, Morrigan isn't gleeful if you have him executed, whereas Anders actually gives you approval points for selling Fenris into slavery.  

Maybe she just doesn't feel as strongly about Alistair as Anders does about Fenris. Anders doesn't react if you don't hand him over, though.

I think it's mostly just that companions don't comment during the Landsmeet. Wynne and Alistair have a grandmother/grandson or mother/son relationship (they even outright say it in some banters), yet she doesn't react either. Whereas Merrill protests to Fenris being handed to Danarius, despite having no personal reason to.

@whykikyouwhy, I quite agree. I have friends in real life who I'm really close to and share the same ideas, and I have others who seem to have completely the opposite beliefs about everything, and yet we still stick together.

Modifié par ReallyRue, 31 octobre 2011 - 07:32 .

[thats1evildude]

maxernst wrote...

That's actually the problem for me.  The DA:O companions have a clear reason to stick together, whereas in DA2, they really don't.

In DAO, your party members signed on to your group because they believed in your cause and they promptly left the party when your actions became too disagreeable. Their own personal quests were largely incidental to the main story; you could find Sten's sword or help Wynne track down her old student, but you didn't have to.

In DA2, your companions don't so much "stick together" as they "live in the same city". Sure, some of them form bonds with each other, but they're still living their own lives and pursuing their own agendas. Their companion quests are actually tied to the storyline.

What makes this ragtag bunch of misfits an actual band of allies is Hawke. Outside of the friendships/relationships/rivalries you form with them, your first contact with all of your party members always involve answering their request for aid, and as a result, they continue working with you, partly out of gratitude and partly because you're a capable individual who can help them achieve their own ends.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 31 octobre 2011 - 07:49 .

[jlb524]

I got the impression that the DA:O companions mainly got along b/c they kind of had to...coming together just to stop the Blight and all that.  I'd imagine most of them wouldn't hang out with each other if they were in a setting like DA2.

In DA2, the companions interacted positively with each other when they actually liked each other (or didn't if they didn't get along).   It seemed more sincere to me.  Like, Merrill would go to the Hanged Man and hang with Isabela because she liked her and they were bffs.

liesandpropaganda wrote...

Oh.

Well i created a highly accurate and fabulous scheme of companion interactions because i've got nothing better to do for easy reference



I forgot to add Anders/Aveline thingie you can imagine it's there

I <3 this.

Also all the yellow lines shooting out of Varric and all the red lines shooting out of Anders is funny.

Modifié par jlb524, 31 octobre 2011 - 07:48 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

Don't you think it might be a testament to Hawke's ability as a leader AND friend to make all of these personalities work together without a single death? I think so.

The Warden only had to put up with them for a year, at most. Hawke held most of them together for 6 years.
It takes a special kind of crazy awesomeness/sheer luck to pull that off.

[Ellyria]

 I dunno, I find it amusing when everyone in the PC's entourage seems to hate each other's guts.  Reminds me of KotOR 2. Takes a special kind of leader to keep them all together when they can't stand each other.

[Zjarcal]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Can't agree. At all. I love the DAO banter sure, but I love the DA2 banter more.

I really think it's one area the writers just continue to improve in, long may it continue. Not to mention that, for me, the cast of DA2 is my absolute favourite BioWare have ever produced and a massive reason for that is the banter.

It's also one of the areas of DA2 that shows a great attention to detail. It is widely reported that DA2 doesn't have this attention to detail in some areas, but I was never disappointed here. Even with the DLC: MotA had some inspired banter.

And this isn't just due to funny one liners etc. rather it is due to the same feeling of disfunctional family atmosphere that, for you, was lacking. Even with companions who disliked each other for one reason or another, it still feels like they have a believable relationship. Aveline and Isabela have brilliant banter and their relationship very obviously evolves over the years.

I even think the way Hawke joins in on occasion works well. I hope against hope they way they handle banter never changes.

I don't think I could agree more with this post.

And a million times yes to the bolded part.

[Ghidorah14]

Rojahar wrote...

OP is trying to assert that there's nothing but hostile interactions, and that the DA2 is full of jerks who never ever get along.

Thank you for completely misunderstanding what my actual greivence was.

[tmp7704]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Who's Anders going to go to for help if not Hawke? It isn't like he has friends beating his door down. Do you think the refugees are going to be able to help him?

tbh on this one point it's actually bit of a stretch -- Anders is running the only clinic in the Darktown and there's lot of people who are willing to go as far as to beat up Hawke if they feel Anders' well-being may be threatened. He could probably easily post a "wtb some dragon ****" on his door and he'd get it soon enough, maybe even from the same guys you have to beat up when you take on that quest yourself.

[whykikyouwhy]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

OP is trying to assert that there's nothing but hostile interactions, and that the DA2 is full of jerks who never ever get along.

Thank you for completely misunderstanding what my actual greivence was.

Well, to be fair, you did call Fenris an *ss. At least, I think that's the sentiment you were going for:

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Fenris acknowledges that not all mages are like the Tevinter magisters, and yet, after you finish your business in Danarius's mansion, he calls your mage companion "a viper that will turn on you" having JUST met them. What an ****!

[Mr.House]

You hate that the companions feel more real? WOOHOO YA LET'S BRING BACK THE BLAND DAO BANTER BECAUSE EVERYONE GETS ALONG

Modifié par Mr.House, 01 novembre 2011 - 01:45 .

[upsettingshorts]

Words cannot express how much I disagree with the OP.

[tmp7704]

Mr.House wrote...

YA LET'S BRING BACK THE BLAND DAO BANTER BECAUSE EVERYONE GETS ALONG

don't think the hyperbole got cranked up high enough there. I DEMAND AT LEAST TWELVE.

[Mr.House]

tmp7704 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

YA LET'S BRING BACK THE BLAND DAO BANTER BECAUSE EVERYONE GETS ALONG

don't think the hyperbole got cranked up high enough there. I DEMAND AT LEAST TWELVE.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png[/smilie]

LET'S HAVE TWENTY PARTY MEMBERS THAT ALL GET ALONG

Modifié par Mr.House, 01 novembre 2011 - 01:55 .

[ejoslin]

The only thing really missing from the DA2 banter, for me, was a laid-back, completely irreverent party member who could joke about anything and took offense at nothing.  I liked the humor that wasn't all one-up-manship.

Edit: But I think the banters were my favorite part of DA2.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 novembre 2011 - 02:04 .

[Ghidorah14]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Well, to be fair, you did call Fenris an *ss. At least, I think that's the sentiment you were going for:

Well, thats because he IS an ass. And unlike Carver, he doesnt grow up.

I know having some bad apples thrown in makes for a more realistic and varied cast of characters, but that isnt always a good thing.

Fenris is such an ass, I usually LOATHE doing his companion quests and often forget to. Then come Act 3, its time to kill him when he sides against me.

its not good game design to have a character who you just plain hate but are forced to help or appease them anyway.

"MAGES ARE ALL SCUM AND THEY DESERVE NOTHING BUT DEATH. Now help me go after my master's apprentice."

".......I'm a mage, fenris."

"Dont I know it. Now you gonna help me or not?"

[Aggie Punbot]

ejoslin wrote...

The only thing really missing from the DA2 banter, for me, was a laid-back, completely irreverent party member who could joke about anything and took offense at nothing.  I liked the humor that wasn't all one-up-manship.

Edit: But I think the banters were my favorite part of DA2.

Like Varric?

[Zjarcal]

TS2Aggie wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The only thing really missing from the DA2 banter, for me, was a laid-back, completely irreverent party member who could joke about anything and took offense at nothing.  I liked the humor that wasn't all one-up-manship.

Edit: But I think the banters were my favorite part of DA2.

Like Varric?

Hehe, I was thinking the same thing. Even Isabela fits that bill, she hardly ever takes offense at anything.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Well, to be fair, you did call Fenris an *ss. At least, I think that's the sentiment you were going for:

Well, thats because he IS an ass. And unlike Carver, he doesnt grow up.

I know having some bad apples thrown in makes for a more realistic and varied cast of characters, but that isnt always a good thing.

Fenris is such an ass, I usually LOATHE doing his companion quests and often forget to. Then come Act 3, its time to kill him when he sides against me.

its not good game design to have a character who you just plain hate but are forced to help or appease them anyway.

"MAGES ARE ALL SCUM AND THEY DESERVE NOTHING BUT DEATH. Now help me go after my master's apprentice."

".......I'm a mage, fenris."

"Dont I know it. Now you gonna help me or not?"

Think of it as being a better person. Rival or Friend, Fenris respects Hawke no matter what class. Respect =/= Friendship.

Plus, he does ask you to forgive most of the things he says about Mage!Hawke, and it's up to you whether or not you can help him come to terms with his crappy past or always remember it.

Fenris has every right to despise mages, as his past indicates. He has just as much right to despise mages as Anders does to hate Templars.

And frankly, I'd be more worried if you were indifferent towards him than outright hate him. A good character makes you feel an emotion, a connection to him/her, even if you hate them. A bad one makes you feel indifferent. :innocent:

[whykikyouwhy]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Well, to be fair, you did call Fenris an *ss. At least, I think that's the sentiment you were going for:

Well, thats because he IS an ass. And unlike Carver, he doesnt grow up.

I know having some bad apples thrown in makes for a more realistic and varied cast of characters, but that isnt always a good thing.

Fenris is such an ass, I usually LOATHE doing his companion quests and often forget to. Then come Act 3, its time to kill him when he sides against me.

its not good game design to have a character who you just plain hate but are forced to help or appease them anyway.

"MAGES ARE ALL SCUM AND THEY DESERVE NOTHING BUT DEATH. Now help me go after my master's apprentice."

".......I'm a mage, fenris."

"Dont I know it. Now you gonna help me or not?"

Oh, I don't know. I think that's perfectly good game design. If I want to be immersed in my gaming world, I want things to seem real to some extent, right? And part of reality, at least as far as personal interactions go, is that people don't always get along. Even when I play PnP RPGs, there are always antagonistic characters thrown in  - it adds some conflict, and it prompts you in the direction of different decisions that you may not have originally considered (especially had everyone been friendly).

In the games I've played, there's almost always someone that is despicable that my character inevitably has to help for one reason or another. Maybe he has information I need, or maybe he has a quest item. You then have to decide which is more important - finishing the quest/gathering info/etc, or giving that character the finger because you don't like him.

As far as Fenris goes, you don't need to recruit him. As with several of the companions, he is optional.

[ejoslin]

Zjarcal wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The only thing really missing from the DA2 banter, for me, was a laid-back, completely irreverent party member who could joke about anything and took offense at nothing.  I liked the humor that wasn't all one-up-manship.

Edit: But I think the banters were my favorite part of DA2.

Like Varric?

Hehe, I was thinking the same thing. Even Isabela fits that bill, she hardly ever takes offense at anything.

Naw, not really.  I don't think either Varric or Isabela were irreverent (well, maybe Isabela, but not nearly to the extent Zevran was).  Plus they had their share of the putting-down just for giggles.  Keep in mind I LIKED the banter.  I just missed that.  The humor in DAO struck me as more subtle and less forced.  But I like the banter in both games.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 novembre 2011 - 02:37 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

@ ejoslin

Do you miss our drunken Dwarven friend and his ever-awesome Elven Assassin? XD

[ejoslin]

soccerchick wrote...

@ ejoslin

Do you miss our drunken Dwarven friend and his ever-awesome Elven Assassin? XD

I miss Origin's Ogrhen, but not Awakening's Oghren.  And I definitely miss the assassin's brand of humor  

Edit: But I mean, seriously, can it get funnier than Oghren propositioning Wynne in the deep roads?

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 novembre 2011 - 02:41 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

ejoslin wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

@ ejoslin

Do you miss our drunken Dwarven friend and his ever-awesome Elven Assassin? XD

I miss Origin's Ogrhen, but not Awakening's Oghren.  And I definitely miss the assassin's brand of humor  

Edit: But I mean, seriously, can it get funnier than Oghren propositioning Wynne in the deep roads?

Simple. Have Hawke describe to Aveline what her Orleasian life would have been, all pomp and... buttressed.

[ejoslin]

soccerchick wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

@ ejoslin

Do you miss our drunken Dwarven friend and his ever-awesome Elven Assassin? XD

I miss Origin's Ogrhen, but not Awakening's Oghren.  And I definitely miss the assassin's brand of humor  

Edit: But I mean, seriously, can it get funnier than Oghren propositioning Wynne in the deep roads?

Simple. Have Hawke describe to Aveline what her Orleasian life would have been, all pomp and... buttressed.

We'll have to agree to disagree :innocent:

[Mr.House]

ejoslin wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

@ ejoslin

Do you miss our drunken Dwarven friend and his ever-awesome Elven Assassin? XD

I miss Origin's Ogrhen, but not Awakening's Oghren.  And I definitely miss the assassin's brand of humor  

Edit: But I mean, seriously, can it get funnier than Oghren propositioning Wynne in the deep roads?

Nothing Oggy said was ever funny.