109 réponses à ce sujet

[Asdara]

It seems pretty simple to me: In DAO you have the unifying threat against the entire population in the form of a non-contraversial monster horde that will bear down on everything it comes into contact with regardless of their abilities, alliances, or any other societal values - Darkspawn are the common enemy and anyone against them is automatically "somewhat friends" by default of the "enemy of my enemy" premise.

In DA2 - you just don't have that. Sure, you have some serious things happening that are threatening and dark, but some group members are more threatened than others by either side of the clash (Mages trying to be free vs. Templars trying to impose order). Anders and Merril are obviously facing a threat from the Templar side while Fenris and Sebastian support the Templar order initiatives of reigning in dangerous mages (if not all mages when they are feeling strongly about it). Aveline straddles the fence - on the side of order, but appreciative of freedom and an advocate for personal responsibility. Isabella falls out on the freedom side, but she's not a mage herself and has no personal stake in the conflict - same for Varric really.

So you have a range of people under a range of threat from different sources with only their friendship with a particular person to bring them together in the first place, and only their relationships with each other through shared trial to shore that up for the group.

This leaves them in a position to factor in their personal feelings toward each other at a much higher priority than the characters of DAO had the luxury of indulging in due to the shared imminent threat they faced in the form of the Blight. Result: more bickering and animosity out in the open, rather than suppressed by the need to work together factor that is absent in DA2 and omnipresent in DAO.

[megski]

I'm not really sure if I agree with the OP or not, but I do like the origins banter better. DA2 has its moments, Aveline and Isabella just keep getting funnier. "Can you lift a cow over your head and run a mile?" For the most part though, at least every companion in DA2 said something that made me cringe or feel uncomfortable and I don't ever remember anything making me feel that way in Origins. Mainly how Anders talks to Aveline, when he should realize she is trying to help him or at the very least taking steps to make sure is aware of situations when she doesn't have to. He is such a douche, I have no idea why I like him.

[Sealy]

megski wrote...

I'm not really sure if I agree with the OP or not, but I do like the origins banter better. DA2 has its moments, Aveline and Isabella just keep getting funnier. "Can you lift a cow over your head and run a mile?" For the most part though, at least every companion in DA2 said something that made me cringe or feel uncomfortable and I don't ever remember anything making me feel that way in Origins. Mainly how Anders talks to Aveline, when he should realize she is trying to help him or at the very least taking steps to make sure is aware of situations when she doesn't have to. He is such a douche, I have no idea why I like him.

I think the cringe worthy banters would be better if our Hawke could turn around and start telling their companions that if they don't stop sniping he will turn this quest around and they can go to bed that night with no whiskey and diamond back, and no, they can't go behind his back for special treatment from Varric. And mothe- I mean Aveline will be by to scold them in the morning.
 
I think that in DA:O the banter is nicer to one another cause they really don't know much about eachother, they banter about superficial things, when a topic is heavy unless it is Wynne or Leliana then mostly it is just teasing eachother, and actually Leliana and Wynne get teased more then most. They were unlike the DA2 characters in the amount of time they are forced to get along and the dramatic differences in opinion. Other then wanting to be nice, and wanting to be mean they really didn't have anything to argue about or if they did have something to argue about it was mostly opinions kept to themselves cause none of them cared enough to make the other see reason.

I don't think Fenris and Anders would have half as much argue time if Anders stopped trying to make Fenris see things his way. As one Banter states.

"I'll prove I am strong"
"Prove it to yourself...ect."

Anders desperatly wants Fenris to see he is justified in his actions, Fenris desperatly wants Anders to see there is no justification for taking in a spirit. Neither will ever change that opinion and so voila, we have constant bickering. They don't fight because they don't know eachother well enough, they fight because they know eachother too well.

[megski]

Fleshdress wrote...

megski wrote...

I'm not really sure if I agree with the OP or not, but I do like the origins banter better. DA2 has its moments, Aveline and Isabella just keep getting funnier. "Can you lift a cow over your head and run a mile?" For the most part though, at least every companion in DA2 said something that made me cringe or feel uncomfortable and I don't ever remember anything making me feel that way in Origins. Mainly how Anders talks to Aveline, when he should realize she is trying to help him or at the very least taking steps to make sure is aware of situations when she doesn't have to. He is such a douche, I have no idea why I like him.

I think the cringe worthy banters would be better if our Hawke could turn around and start telling their companions that if they don't stop sniping he will turn this quest around and they can go to bed that night with no whiskey and diamond back, and no, they can't go behind his back for special treatment from Varric. And mothe- I mean Aveline will be by to scold them in the morning.
 
I think that in DA:O the banter is nicer to one another cause they really don't know much about eachother, they banter about superficial things, when a topic is heavy unless it is Wynne or Leliana then mostly it is just teasing eachother, and actually Leliana and Wynne get teased more then most. They were unlike the DA2 characters in the amount of time they are forced to get along and the dramatic differences in opinion. Other then wanting to be nice, and wanting to be mean they really didn't have anything to argue about or if they did have something to argue about it was mostly opinions kept to themselves cause none of them cared enough to make the other see reason.

I don't think Fenris and Anders would have half as much argue time if Anders stopped trying to make Fenris see things his way. As one Banter states.

"I'll prove I am strong"
"Prove it to yourself...ect."

Anders desperatly wants Fenris to see he is justified in his actions, Fenris desperatly wants Anders to see there is no justification for taking in a spirit. Neither will ever change that opinion and so voila, we have constant bickering. They don't fight because they don't know eachother well enough, they fight because they know eachother too well.

I think you have a good point and I'm not sure how it would be implemented, but it would be nice if Hawke could interject if he wanted to.  

[Quething]

Asdara wrote...

Isabella falls out on the freedom side, but she's not a mage herself and has no personal stake in the conflict - same for Varric really. 

Varric's actually pro-templar. Note his comments during the endgame conversation, and a few periodic one-liners during the game itself ("he's not bad, for a mage").

He's also pretty protective of his people, of course, which means he puts his money into protecting Anders and Merrill, but he sort of disagrees with them on principle. He just doesn't care enough to let it outweigh his other concerns.

[Asdara]

Quething wrote...

Asdara wrote...

Isabella falls out on the freedom side, but she's not a mage herself and has no personal stake in the conflict - same for Varric really. 

Varric's actually pro-templar. Note his comments during the endgame conversation, and a few periodic one-liners during the game itself ("he's not bad, for a mage").

He's also pretty protective of his people, of course, which means he puts his money into protecting Anders and Merrill, but he sort of disagrees with them on principle. He just doesn't care enough to let it outweigh his other concerns.

I mord attribute that to him being a Dwarf than any specifically pro-Templar position.  They don't do the magic thing after all and his experience with mages is... well pretty lousy outside of our companions really what with all the fighting we do with them.

[Quething]

Eh, it's more than that. He calls siding with Meredith "protecting our way of life." That's much more templar/Circle-specific than just a simple "I'm not keen on magic."

Modifié par Quething, 10 novembre 2011 - 01:04 .

[Ghidorah14]

Quething wrote...

Eh, it's more than that. He calls siding with Meredith "protecting our way of life." That's much more templar/Circle-specific than just a simple "I'm not keen on magic."

He also expresses doubt when siding with the mages, and describes it as "helping dangerous people run amok."

I dont think Varric is pro-templar, exactly. He's more pro-stability, and crazy blood mage demon worhshipers dont really offer that.

"I think I'm sick of mages and templars."

[Asdara]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Quething wrote...

Eh, it's more than that. He calls siding with Meredith "protecting our way of life." That's much more templar/Circle-specific than just a simple "I'm not keen on magic."

He also expresses doubt when siding with the mages, and describes it as "helping dangerous people run amok."

I dont think Varric is pro-templar, exactly. He's more pro-stability, and crazy blood mage demon worhshipers dont really offer that.

"I think I'm sick of mages and templars."

This is what I think more - he likes stability and the status quo being maintained because he opperates around that system and upheaval is bad for business (and life in general).

[Nightwriter]

Kinda not on the same page as you at all, OP. DA:O's party was not "one big happy family." There was outright dislike, conflict, and distrust. Alistair and Morrigan's back-and-forths were not "playful." They genuinely did not like each other. And if you ask me, Isabela and Aveline's friendship arc was one of the best in the series.

It's DA2's party that felt more like a big family, even if not every relative got along. All you have to do is stroll into the Hawke estate and start clicking on things to see proof of this sense of family. In DA2 companions play card games together, chat when you're not around, visit each other's houses out of concern. They do favors for each other, look out for each other, go drinking together. Even the squadmates who dislike each other do this.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 14 novembre 2011 - 07:23 .