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[Roland The Great]

Thanks Carado for the info.

[Roland The Great]

ok so you play an evil avatar and lilanna leaves the party and you destroy the elves and get the werewolves to fill in for the dalish and destroy the circle murder the kid. Ali with the revers in haven now the ritual makes since and the OGB is your ali if it comes back in DA3

[GavrielKay]

Morrigan says that she got the ritual from Flemeth, but that doesn't mean Flemeth invented it. Flemeth could simply have discovered it over the course of her long life.

Also, the line that finally convinced me that it wasn't a horribly bad idea to do the ritual was Morrigan saying that "some things are worth preserving in this world." The voice actress did such a good job of making that sound genuine.

It is always possible that an old god reborn would be a force for great good in the world. I never found Morrigan to be evil, so there's no reason to suspect she'll raise the child to be the scourge of mankind or anything.

Anyway, to each their own, but I always had Alistair do the ritual unless I was achievement hunting.

[Bjond]

"It must be hard being a moral man living in a land of moral relativity."

If you explore the entire dialogue with Morrigan, you can find out a great deal about her intentions and about the child itself.  Many of your assumptions and guesses are answered directly in the dialogue.  And, well, on the topic of morals, "whose?"  Your character was born and raised in a medieval culture quite a bit different from ours -- one where sex doesn't have many taboos at all if the codex is to be believed.

[Roland The Great]

Well on the personal I did not find as Morrigan says in the camp party conversation that the important thing is to survive. Sounded like a perfectly good moral choice the part about an OGB was somewhat suspect, but I agree the OBG could go either way. for good or bad but his original question was he was trying to play a moral play through. I did not find the ritual as an immoral choice. but when it says dark ritual (shrug). It all goes to how the game choice you make plays out. Is it moral or not. I am really not sure but for awakening you survived anyway what ever choice you made. I played it both ways but not sure I want to play a perfect moral charter although it would be a challenge.

[Roland The Great]

And by the way the Dalish Leader's curse is not justified so, destroying the elves makes since to me, but then the curse is not lifted and you have werewolves instead of elves fighting for you. So in this case the moral choice is to break the curse and turn everyone into humans and let the elves fight. I personally find it not offensive to destroy the elves. the game does.It is an moral choice to destroy zaphran but my personal the lying elf and the protection of the elves his attitude along makes me want to kill him I just think the Dalish deserve to be wiped out in this case. They are protecting the lying scum even though some of them know the truth or at least that is what I get from the dialog.If you sit through the dalish histroy lesson from the story teller, it is rather insulting since if your a human is an insulting twist of history since the dalish started the war against the humans to destroy them to escape slavery escaping slavery justified but massing a war to destroy the humans is an over reach knowing the full history of the war started.

[pplr]

Roland.

To me killing the Dalish seems pointedly immoral. Why? Because at least some of the elves seem to have little idea of what their leader did.

So to kill off the whole tribe-down to poor Cammen-for the actions of one person is simply not justified.

Taking out the leader sure, but taking out the whole group for the crimes of one person? That is a far cry from justice.

About Dalish history.... sure they are arrogant and may have a version of history that focuses on claiming us good them bad. That is not a good thing and can lead to ethnic based fights.

However I got the sense that humans-or at least some groups of them-had their own version of history so that type of problem seems sadly common and if I wiped out anyone who did it in Ferelden I think the darkspawn would either win or find few people left to fight.

[Roland The Great]

I can see your point pplr just that is the way I saw it after playing it several times that is the dalish and finally setting through the story tellers history lesson. And you are right as that is the moral choice in the game just my one human I played that way It was really upsetting setting through the story tellers history lesson to my one human. So I decided to play him as an evil unmoral person and kill them all. but of course lilanna takes a hike since she is sympathetic to the dalish. And will not tolerate a purely evil choice from the warden.

[Roland The Great]

Oh and your last statement was quite insightful. True in real life and you can make a strong case in the game life also.

[Roland The Great]

I really like this thread the comments are both entertaining and educational at the same time and the different point of views are very refreshing in a discussions group. So the question is where does the third installment go with all this cool interpretation and is Morrigan gone forever does the OGB come back for good or ill and the original question playing a moral charter through the game. Problem I see is DA2 goes a little different direction. It is almost impossible to not play a thief and a immoral person as in the first of the game you are forced to smuggle or kill for a living. and the warden is gone and no mention of him and I don't see how anyone in the orginal party can come to this Hero of Felderen being from Lothering where did the hero come from if you chose to take all thier things if promising to save the cowards from the darkspawn. (oh side note take that choice even though you get all the things nice and if you leave the fly by night merchant alive to steal the imperium cross bow from him. You will not be able to get the two minor quests for the traps and health potions and the experience from them if you make that choice with the crazy guy yelling in the court yard of the chantry.) And sometimes the game forces you into immoral choices since you can not get the cross bow from the merchant unless you steal it from the opportunist merchant and leave him alive. What kind of moral choice is that because you have to chase off the chantry for the merchant to keep him alive and can you play a morally upright charter making that choice. Morrigan is all for the merchant but if you have Alister is somewhat critical of you stern likes it if you get him before the encounter. Shayle is not concerned. so can you get credit for the moral side when this is one of the first choices you have to make.

[Megaton_Hope]

I haven't played through Witch Hunt in a game where I went through with the ritual, but I've heard that no further details arrive to clarify the issue from people who have. I suspect that this loose end is being left loose indefinitely. So far as I know, neither Morrigan nor the child will arrive again. (I know that they don't in Awakenings, since I just finished that and saw neither hide nor hair of her. Which is too bad - I wasn't in love with my newer mage options, and the ability to re-spec her horrible starter specialization with a manual of focus would make her useful in combat.)

In plain terms of morals, though...well. I don't think that preserving the energy that used to be the dragon before its corruption by the Darkspawn Taint is necessarily an evil act. The Wardens are already engaging in blood magic rituals to gain power, let us recall - you consume the tainted blood of an Old God by the end of your very first mission, as part of becoming a Warden. It's the reason you can take part in this ritual in the first place.

What interests me about the ritual is that there are two options that will make this child the rightful heir to the throne of Ferelden - in addition to whatever uncanny magical weirdness Morrigan has in mind. There would be enough people to attest to the child's bona fiders to give it at least the legitimacy that dark horse Alistair had. That alone makes me wish that Bioware was willing to keep it in canon - there are so many beautiful things to do with this concept.

Killing the Dalish seems pretty pointlessly evil to me. You can easily kill Zathrian, and I usually do. Even killing the Werewolves (well, some of them) and taking the heart back offers turning on Zathrian in the ruins, in which case Lanaya cures the hunters. The only downside is that the Werewolf curse is still out there "in the wild," and basically can never be cured. Also a downside if you kill all the Dalish. Not to mention you can't buy unlimited Elfroots for poultices anymore.

By far the best version is to convince Zathrian that he has done wrong in cursing the humans, in which case he breaks the curse, he dies, and there are no longer any Werewolves. Uh, officially, on paper; you'll still run into them sometimes for no particular reason.

[Roland The Great]

Yeah the not being able to buy the herbs is a point to remember so if you choose to do an evil act like I did for the one human charter you need to stock up before you wipe them out. Major game point you added.