83 réponses à ce sujet

[ReallyRue]

jamesp81 wrote...

I imagine there's some element of chance involved or factors not normally seen. Maybe Mhairi had a congenital condition that didn't react well to the taint, but otherwise didn't manifest.

I suppose that's possible, even if her strength and stamina were good.

[RagingCyclone]

There is another in the game that has been forgotten in this discussion...Nate's grandfather. We are led to assume he also died in the Joining, or so Nate states in Awakening. And the only related mortality-wise thing I could find in the codex was Mhairi's that stated she died like so many before her.

[AlexXIV]

I think you can't base it on Awakenings. 50/50 seems about right because you had 2 of 3 dying in your joining and Alistair had 1 of 3 dying in his. However it could easily be coincidence and be anything else. Like 33% or 66%. But probably not below or above. Would suck if Duncan brings 3 applicants to the Joining and all three die. It's the big question anyway how Warden keep it secret if so many die. I mean some of them have family. In DA:O's case it maybe didn't matter because so many died in the battle anyway. But if one of two die in the Joining you should think it can't really be kept secret in the long run.

[Saberchic]

I've always wondered how many survive the Joining as well. If I had to give it an estimate, I would assume that there's around a 35-40% chance of survival. It just sounds like more often than not, people don't survive the ritual.

[Tempest_]

Well in awakening, all but one survived. Although I enjoyed awakening, that is my biggest gripe with the DLC in that the joining isn't quite as perilous as it was shown to be in origins.

I'd say its very difficult to give an exact mortality rate but I'd place it around 50% based on what we've seen/heard of it.

Modifié par Quote the Raven, 01 novembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[Big I]

I always just assumed that the mortality rate in Origins and Awakening represented the wider one. So, two out of eight (nine if we count Bethany/Carver) recruits means about three quarters survive.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Quote the Raven wrote...

Well in awakening, all but one survived. Although I enjoyed awakening, that is my biggest gripe with the DLC in that the joining isn't quite as perilous as it was shown to be in origins.

I'd say its very difficult to give an exact mortality rate but I'd place it around 50% based on what we've seen/heard of it.

But exactly the same number of people died form The Joining in both games. Alister says that only one person died at his Joining. Plus Nathaniel mentions his grandfather probably died from the Joining.

[Malanek]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

I always just assumed that the mortality rate in Origins and Awakening represented the wider one. So, two out of eight (nine if we count Bethany/Carver) recruits means about three quarters survive.

Bethany and Carver are two different people who would both survive so that is down to a 20% mortality rate.

[Quething]

If survival is genetically related, counting Beth and Carver as one person actually seems close to fair. They're fraternal, not identical, but they're still twins and likely have the same traits that led to survival.

Honestly less than about three-quarters doesn't seem terribly sustainable to me. Like Alex says, at some point a high enough mortality rate becomes impossible to hide, particularly if Wardens tend to be the third sons of nobility (as one gets the impression they often are, taking the same general cultural spot as the church in the heir/spare/Chantry pledge dynamic). Plus, Duncan needs Wardens. The lower the survival rate, the less believable the "only three recruits" gamble becomes.

[Gibb_Shepard]

From what i've gathered in "The Calling", only few of those who attend the joining actually survive. And those who do survive is not by chance, but by strong will and physical constitution.

That is why the Grey Wardens seek the most hardy and skilled individuals, because they have a much higher chance at surviving this trial by fire.

[Bayz]

The Joining is actual Darkspawn blood with bleach. If you have Plotshield you will have a 100% of survival chance. If you do not your chances go down to 0%

[dragonflight288]

Jory didn't really die because of the joining as such, he died because he was a coward and Duncan was a no compromise sort of guy. Still not sure it was necessary to kill him.

I personally think that under those circumstances, it is easily justifiable (and necessary) to kill Jory. Throughout the mission in the wilds, he was constantly showing a weak will and would rather ignore his assignment and complain rather than get the job done. He got Duncan's attention by winning a grand melee in a tournament, but he was being let in on a lot of Warden secrets.

The fatality of the joining (which is a form of blood magic,) taking in the taint-making it so it's not an immunity so much as a delaying of the affects. He was also no willing to get over the whole "do what is necessary" part.

Daveth: The wardens do what they must right?
Jory: Including sacrificing us?
Daveth: I'd sacrifice a lot more if it meant ending the blight. You saw those darkspawn ser-knight. Would you die to protect your pretty wife from them?
Jory: I...?
Daveth: Maybe you'll die. Maybe we'll all die, but if no one stops the darkspawn, we'll die for sure.

Jory couldn't even answer if he would die to protect his wife. He saw the whole thing as, do a duty then go home and all is forgotten.

[Bayz]

tbh the whole time he went there he kept wussing out so...he reminded me the leon from Wizard of Oz.

[Malanek]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Jory didn't really die because of the joining as such, he died because he was a coward and Duncan was a no compromise sort of guy. Still not sure it was necessary to kill him.

I personally think that under those circumstances, it is easily justifiable (and necessary) to kill Jory. Throughout the mission in the wilds, he was constantly showing a weak will and would rather ignore his assignment and complain rather than get the job done. He got Duncan's attention by winning a grand melee in a tournament, but he was being let in on a lot of Warden secrets.

The fatality of the joining (which is a form of blood magic,) taking in the taint-making it so it's not an immunity so much as a delaying of the affects. He was also no willing to get over the whole "do what is necessary" part.

There is some truth in that but at the same time it is difficult to believe that this secret has remained for so long. If you trick or coerce people into joining, many are likely to feel aggreived aftewards (as can be confirmed by a 50 page angst thread on the BSN when we were first told about the short life span given out to our computer game character). In short it was a mistake from Duncan to even consider recruiting Jory, if he had of survived it, which he probably wouldn't, he would not have kept his mouth shut.

[Quething]

Ha! My Cousland certainly wouldn't, and she did survive.

The Wardens seem to have a really strong propaganda machine, though. Just ask Wynne.

[Malanek]

It only takes one.

[Bayz]

He recruited Jory because it were desperate times. They had been expelled and they were in what he knew was a true blight...he had to try and he failed miserably.

[dragonflight288]

What we do know is that Duncan tried, and when Jory pulled a sword on Duncan, Duncan killed him. Duncan was trying to work with what he had. And what he had...was not a lot.

[AlexXIV]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Jory didn't really die because of the joining as such, he died because he was a coward and Duncan was a no compromise sort of guy. Still not sure it was necessary to kill him.

I personally think that under those circumstances, it is easily justifiable (and necessary) to kill Jory. Throughout the mission in the wilds, he was constantly showing a weak will and would rather ignore his assignment and complain rather than get the job done. He got Duncan's attention by winning a grand melee in a tournament, but he was being let in on a lot of Warden secrets.

The fatality of the joining (which is a form of blood magic,) taking in the taint-making it so it's not an immunity so much as a delaying of the affects. He was also no willing to get over the whole "do what is necessary" part.

Daveth: The wardens do what they must right?
Jory: Including sacrificing us?
Daveth: I'd sacrifice a lot more if it meant ending the blight. You saw those darkspawn ser-knight. Would you die to protect your pretty wife from them?
Jory: I...?
Daveth: Maybe you'll die. Maybe we'll all die, but if no one stops the darkspawn, we'll die for sure.

Jory couldn't even answer if he would die to protect his wife. He saw the whole thing as, do a duty then go home and all is forgotten.

The only thing that could maybe justify killing Jory was that the secret had to be kept with the Wardens. So if Jory wouldn't drink, he would be a non-warden knowing their secret and probably telling everyone if I judge Jory from what I have seen of him. He was an idiot. Other than that Jory drawing his sword isn't enough reason to kill him. He drew it in defense because he wasn't going to drink poison that ... let's face it ... would have killed him for sure.

[dragonflight288]

So he's dead either way.

[Lazy Jer]

How lethal is it? Moreso then Daveth would have prefered, and certain more then Ser Jory was willing to chance.

[Bayz]

How lethal is it in a scale 1-10, one being mayonaise poisoning and ten being the equivalent of swallowing two cans of pure sodium down your throat...

6?, 3 if you are a Dwarf I guess.

[dragonflight288]

How about we travel to Weisshaupt fortress to see the records of the Joining across Thedas. Look at how many are recruited and go through the joining in a single year, and how many actually die.

What we see is kind of limited numbers.

[Alyka]

Well we know it's a mixture of Archdemon blood,darkspawn blood,lyrium and magic.And since Dwarves are more immune to magic and lyrium, I'd say they have a better chance of surviving.So race is a factor.

[blaidfiste]

Lethal to any non important character. Jory was right to resist.