545 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Lord Aesir wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

1) Rember how Avernus kept the taint at bay? Blood magic. And how Merrill purged the taint from the hard? Blood magic. A lot of lyrium would work too, but the Chantry keeps tight control of the trade and I doubt the Dalish have carta connections.

2) She was so smug. She all but had a smirk on her face when she said that she had warned them. She didn't care at all that Pol died because he was scared of Merrill after she warned him. She knew Pol was raised as an Andrastian and she knows how much they fear blood magic. That situation could have been
handled a lot better by her.

3) Says who? Marethari never said anything and just gave Merrill the impression that she just hated it because of what happened to Tamlen and Mahariel. If she had said that the portal would release a demon who would possess her, she might well have listened. Merrill's ignorance was Marethari's fault.

1) And nothing you've said indicates blood magic is the only thing that can surpress the taint temporarily.  Maybe it's the only thing that could suppress it for a very long time, like Avernus, but healing magic could provide a more short term solution as surely as lyrium.

2) Nope, saw none of that.  She was not smug and she was certainly not pleased by Pol's death.  Marethari told the clan that Merrill was engaging in foul and dangerous practices that included consorting with demons.  All of which was true.  I'd think it more irresponsible of her to not tell the clan to steer clear of Merrill.

3) Sure, because something that killed one of her close friends and turned the other into a ghoul couldn't possibly be hazardous.  Honestly, Merrill should have known better than to be messing with that thing period.  Marethari warned Merrill not to perform blood magic, she did it anyway.  Marethari warned Merril not to consort with demons, but she did it anyway.  There is no shortage of precedence for Merrill not listening to what Marethari says.

The job of a Keeper is to keep elvish history.  Merrill was being a better keeper than their own so-called Keeper.

Marethari was an idiot, and cruel to boot.  She had the entire clan convinced Merrill ate babies for breakfast and used the blood for unholy rituals.  And for what?  What GOOD did that accomplish?

[Northern Sun]

labargegrrrl wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

labargegrrrl wrote...

Just a note, to those of you who didn't notice...Vinel is the woman who replaces Marethari as Keeper. She's in the camp, you can talk to her and everything.

Really? I didn't know that. I'll have to dust off my DA2 and find an early save to load. Does she say anything about this topic?

if you talk to her before Marethari dies, you won't get dialogue.  if you talk to her after, she'll say that Marethari was better at dealing with humans than she is, but then the game doesn't let you talk about it more.  of course, if you pick the wrong option and kill the Dalish then you won't get to talk to her.  i bumped into the dialogue by accident when i did Murder of Crows.

I thought the Dalish clan attacked you if you came back after A New Path?(provided you didn't kill them during the quest, or is it only if Merrill's in the party?)

[Saberchic]

Northern Sun wrote...

I thought the Dalish clan attacked you if you came back after A New Path?(provided you didn't kill them during the quest, or is it only if Merrill's in the party?)

That's if Merrill is in the party.

[Huntress]

In that quest, merril said like ( more or less) "Merril: You have to do something trully evil" doing that quest hawke find 4 hunter's 3 are dead last one died a few minutes later, to me Marethari sended the hunters to that cave as a sacrifies to get the demon free. Thats how i see it, if is true or not well go and check merril conversation again and then tell me if am wrong. merril hasn't done anything terrible as yet, she is just a blood-mage.

[Gervaise]

I think the demon got under the skin of them both and they were both being manipulated because of their own pride (it was a pride demon after all). Marathari thought she knew best about everything, including allowing herself to become possessed, which was highly irresponsble and stupid. Merril thought she knew better than the Keeper, when she admits that it is the Keeper's responsibility to look after the clan, and did have a child-like approach to using the demon's advice, when she admits you can't trust them.

The mirror was dangerous, not just because of the taint, but because of the very fact that no one really knew what it was meant to be used for. Merril would not know that Tamlen became a ghoul because all the Warden knew was that Tamlen touched the mirror and disappeared. No one knew whether he had gone into the mirror or something had come out of the mirror and taken him. That combined with the fact that the Warden was tainted by contact with it should have been enough to give it a very wide berth.

Where I feel Marathari was at fault was in not simply destroying the mirror, or if she felt that might carry its own risks, then simply shutting in off somewhere in a cave until such time as more information came to light. It certainly wasn't a very pleasant thing to do, sending it into the heart of a human city/elven alienage when she believed it presented such a danger and sending Merrill with it if she thought the magic she was using was putting the clan at risk. If it wasn't so great a danger, why did she banish Merrill from the clan? Clearly the lives of the humans and city elves meant nothing to her.

Likewise, why Merrill was in such an all fired hurry to fix the mirror by any means possible, rather than keep it safe in the hope that further information to fix it safely might come to light. The urgency did seem rather strange considering that this was only one artifact and if it had lasted this long, a few more years wouldn't hurt, since it was highly unlikely that it could change the course of elf history on its own. What was also strange was Merrill then destroying it just because she couldn't get it to work, when events had proved that really that was the only thing that was wrong with it. Deciding not to try and use dangerous quick fix methods but instead store it somewhere until someone in the future, may be not even Merrill herself, found a safe way to mend it, would seem more in keeping with the value that she had placed on it originally.

So in Varric's words, I would say it was "Six of one, half a dozen of the other."

[AlexXIV]

I am still in the opinion the story doesn't come across as the writers intended. I have a hard time to believe that the moral of Merrill's story is 'it's the keeper's fault'. I may be wrong here but usually you would expect Merrill's pride and (even if mild) recklessness persueing her goals comes biting her butt. But it comes biting the Keeper's butt. I think the point was to show that Merrill's actions led to the Keeper's death. Not that the Keeper was the biggest fool of the clan. Somehow I have the feeling that the person(s) responsible for writing the dalish in DA keep overlooking in stuff and making logic jumps. It may be because the writers usually know more than the readers/players. I can only say it doesn't make sense to me, and I can only assume what they wanted to say with it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 01 novembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[Lazy Jer]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Yes it's true. And here's why.

Speaking of smug...I'm going to smugly point out that it's not so much "true" as it is your opinion.

1. She condemns Merrill for using blood magic. Yet how do you think she was able to prolong Mahariel's life after he/she was tainted and inevetiably die or be recruited? The poison travels through the blood after all. And the Dalish aren't the Chantry, they have no laws explicitly forbidding blood magic.

2. She 'warns' the whole clan about Merrill and demonizes her(pun intended) to them. Which leads to Pol's death, and she acts smug about it. Merrill grieved more for Pol than she did. Merrill wasn't even living with them anymore so there was no reason to warn.

3. Marethari deliberately becomes an abomination to protect Merrill because she knew what the mirror would do if completed, when arguably could have just told Merrill right from the start. And this little screw up can lead to the death of her whole tribe.

The whole situation could have been avoided if Marethari were just fair and honest.

I never thought I'd say this but Zathrian had better character than she does.

1) There's no hard evidence that blood magic was used.

2) Whether she was smug or not is, again, sort of opinion.  I myself didn't read smug in her voice, but I won't argue that you didn't.  The warning leading to Pol's death can be argued or not.  What I fail to see is how this directly or even indirectly equates to what happened with the Eluvian.

3) This is about the only thing you and I agree on.  I do believe that Marethari should have gone into the whole "This is what the deal is" speech before Merrill started in on this whole thing, rather then waiting until the very end to do it.  Now, presumedly they had conversations and/or arguments about this whole thing off-screen, but just like there's no evidence of blood magic, there's also no evidence that she was forthwright about this whole thing.

Modifié par Lazy Jer, 01 novembre 2011 - 04:54 .

[esper]

AlexXIV wrote...

I am still in the opinion the story doesn't come across as the writers intended. I have a hard time to believe that the moral of Merrill's story is 'it's the keeper's fault'. I may be wrong here but usually you would expect Merrill's pride and (even if mild) recklessness persueing her goals comes biting her butt. But it comes biting the Keeper's butt. I think the point was to show that Merrill's actions led to the Keeper's death. Not that the Keeper was the biggest fool of the clan. Somehow I have the feeling that the person(s) responsible for writing the dalish in DA keep overlooking in stuff and making logic jumps. It may be because the writers usually know more than the readers/players. I can only say it doesn't make sense to me, and I can only assume what they wanted to say with it.

The point of the story is to show how pride can lead to destruction. Both character's are pridefull and where to put the blame is purposely made ambivalent.

[naledgeborn]

Urzon wrote...

I think the demon played them both. He played Merrill on her pride of possibly saving the elves, and he played Marethari on her pride of being a good Keeper.

It was able to turn Merrill into a blood mage; which got her exiled from the clan, and it forced her into relying on blood magic and his knownledge to finish the mirror. It also got Marethari to play her role by making her exile Merrill for "the good of the clan".

The real question is, who was the true target? Was it Merrill in the possibly freedom the demon could get from the finished mirror, or was it Marethari in that she made herself into an abomination to save Merrill (and the clan from Merrill's actions)?

I'm leaning in towards the Keeper being the true target, with Merrill being the pawn. Either way the demon could have two possible escape routes, but its own pride got itself killed. It could have easily walked away from the camp after it possessed the Keeper.

This. Because it's the best thing in this thread.

[WhiteKnyght]

Lazy Jer wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Yes it's true. And here's why.

Speaking of smug...I'm going to smugly point out that it's not so much "true" as it is your opinion.

1. She condemns Merrill for using blood magic. Yet how do you think she was able to prolong Mahariel's life after he/she was tainted and inevetiably die or be recruited? The poison travels through the blood after all. And the Dalish aren't the Chantry, they have no laws explicitly forbidding blood magic.

2. She 'warns' the whole clan about Merrill and demonizes her(pun intended) to them. Which leads to Pol's death, and she acts smug about it. Merrill grieved more for Pol than she did. Merrill wasn't even living with them anymore so there was no reason to warn.

3. Marethari deliberately becomes an abomination to protect Merrill because she knew what the mirror would do if completed, when arguably could have just told Merrill right from the start. And this little screw up can lead to the death of her whole tribe.

The whole situation could have been avoided if Marethari were just fair and honest.

I never thought I'd say this but Zathrian had better character than she does.

1) There's no hard evidence that blood magic was used.

2) Whether she was smug or not is, again, sort of opinion.  I myself didn't read smug in her voice, but I won't argue that you didn't.  The warning leading to Pol's death can be argued or not.  What I fail to see is how this directly or even indirectly equates to what happened with the Eluvian.

3) This is about the only thing you and I agree on.  I do believe that Marethari should have gone into the whole "This is what the deal is" speech before Merrill started in on this whole thing, rather then waiting until the very end to do it.  Now, presumedly they had conversations and/or arguments about this whole thing off-screen, but just like there's no evidence of blood magic, there's also no evidence that she was forthwright about this whole thing.

1) Well I just started a Dalish Origin and Marethari referred to her treatment as "The old magics" and it has been stated that the Arlathian elves had blood magic before humans ever did.

[AlexXIV]

esper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I am still in the opinion the story doesn't come across as the writers intended. I have a hard time to believe that the moral of Merrill's story is 'it's the keeper's fault'. I may be wrong here but usually you would expect Merrill's pride and (even if mild) recklessness persueing her goals comes biting her butt. But it comes biting the Keeper's butt. I think the point was to show that Merrill's actions led to the Keeper's death. Not that the Keeper was the biggest fool of the clan. Somehow I have the feeling that the person(s) responsible for writing the dalish in DA keep overlooking in stuff and making logic jumps. It may be because the writers usually know more than the readers/players. I can only say it doesn't make sense to me, and I can only assume what they wanted to say with it.

The point of the story is to show how pride can lead to destruction. Both character's are pridefull and where to put the blame is purposely made ambivalent.

Well but what went wrong is that you have no way to see what would have happened if Meredith had not done what she did. If you could convince the keeper to let go or something or trust you to deal with it alone, and then it resulted in Merrill dying then I could see the point of the keeper. But in the story at hand we have what people in this thread already stated. It's the keeper who more or less badmouthes Merrill in front of the clan and it is also her who acts hypocritical. It is also her who puts Merrill's wellfare over the clan's wellfare. And ultimately it is her who frees the demon, not Merrill. So just looking at the facts you have to cast all blame on the keeper. And that's what bothers me because I am sure that's not what the story was about. It makes it too easy for everyone to overlook Merrill's flaws and her part in it.

[esper]

AlexXIV wrote...

esper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I am still in the opinion the story doesn't come across as the writers intended. I have a hard time to believe that the moral of Merrill's story is 'it's the keeper's fault'. I may be wrong here but usually you would expect Merrill's pride and (even if mild) recklessness persueing her goals comes biting her butt. But it comes biting the Keeper's butt. I think the point was to show that Merrill's actions led to the Keeper's death. Not that the Keeper was the biggest fool of the clan. Somehow I have the feeling that the person(s) responsible for writing the dalish in DA keep overlooking in stuff and making logic jumps. It may be because the writers usually know more than the readers/players. I can only say it doesn't make sense to me, and I can only assume what they wanted to say with it.

The point of the story is to show how pride can lead to destruction. Both character's are pridefull and where to put the blame is purposely made ambivalent.

Well but what went wrong is that you have no way to see what would have happened if Meredith had not done what she did. If you could convince the keeper to let go or something or trust you to deal with it alone, and then it resulted in Merrill dying then I could see the point of the keeper. But in the story at hand we have what people in this thread already stated. It's the keeper who more or less badmouthes Merrill in front of the clan and it is also her who acts hypocritical. It is also her who puts Merrill's wellfare over the clan's wellfare. And ultimately it is her who frees the demon, not Merrill. So just looking at the facts you have to cast all blame on the keeper. And that's what bothers me because I am sure that's not what the story was about. It makes it too easy for everyone to overlook Merrill's flaws and her part in it.

Given how many goes: 
- Matheri was right!
- No Merrill was right
I would say that they suceeded. I personally on the: The demon played them both, but the Keeper fell for it boat.
I basically blame the Keeper , but not everyone shares my opinion and respect their side since it is well argued.  

[AlexXIV]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Yes it's true. And here's why.

Speaking of smug...I'm going to smugly point out that it's not so much "true" as it is your opinion.

1. She condemns Merrill for using blood magic. Yet how do you think she was able to prolong Mahariel's life after he/she was tainted and inevetiably die or be recruited? The poison travels through the blood after all. And the Dalish aren't the Chantry, they have no laws explicitly forbidding blood magic.

2. She 'warns' the whole clan about Merrill and demonizes her(pun intended) to them. Which leads to Pol's death, and she acts smug about it. Merrill grieved more for Pol than she did. Merrill wasn't even living with them anymore so there was no reason to warn.

3. Marethari deliberately becomes an abomination to protect Merrill because she knew what the mirror would do if completed, when arguably could have just told Merrill right from the start. And this little screw up can lead to the death of her whole tribe.

The whole situation could have been avoided if Marethari were just fair and honest.

I never thought I'd say this but Zathrian had better character than she does.

1) There's no hard evidence that blood magic was used.

2) Whether she was smug or not is, again, sort of opinion.  I myself didn't read smug in her voice, but I won't argue that you didn't.  The warning leading to Pol's death can be argued or not.  What I fail to see is how this directly or even indirectly equates to what happened with the Eluvian.

3) This is about the only thing you and I agree on.  I do believe that Marethari should have gone into the whole "This is what the deal is" speech before Merrill started in on this whole thing, rather then waiting until the very end to do it.  Now, presumedly they had conversations and/or arguments about this whole thing off-screen, but just like there's no evidence of blood magic, there's also no evidence that she was forthwright about this whole thing.

1) Well I just started a Dalish Origin and Marethari referred to her treatment as "The old magics" and it has been stated that the Arlathian elves had blood magic before humans ever did.

Well old magic does not equal bloodmagic. But I understand that in the old times bloodmagic was more common and not a forbidden art. So likely many powerful old magics actually required blood as fuel. I mean it's cheaper and easier to get than lyrium. And we don't even know if the elves of Arlathan even had access to lyrium. I mean they were a reclusive bunch and I doubt they mingled with dwarves without need.

[AlexXIV]

esper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

esper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I am still in the opinion the story doesn't come across as the writers intended. I have a hard time to believe that the moral of Merrill's story is 'it's the keeper's fault'. I may be wrong here but usually you would expect Merrill's pride and (even if mild) recklessness persueing her goals comes biting her butt. But it comes biting the Keeper's butt. I think the point was to show that Merrill's actions led to the Keeper's death. Not that the Keeper was the biggest fool of the clan. Somehow I have the feeling that the person(s) responsible for writing the dalish in DA keep overlooking in stuff and making logic jumps. It may be because the writers usually know more than the readers/players. I can only say it doesn't make sense to me, and I can only assume what they wanted to say with it.

The point of the story is to show how pride can lead to destruction. Both character's are pridefull and where to put the blame is purposely made ambivalent.

Well but what went wrong is that you have no way to see what would have happened if Meredith had not done what she did. If you could convince the keeper to let go or something or trust you to deal with it alone, and then it resulted in Merrill dying then I could see the point of the keeper. But in the story at hand we have what people in this thread already stated. It's the keeper who more or less badmouthes Merrill in front of the clan and it is also her who acts hypocritical. It is also her who puts Merrill's wellfare over the clan's wellfare. And ultimately it is her who frees the demon, not Merrill. So just looking at the facts you have to cast all blame on the keeper. And that's what bothers me because I am sure that's not what the story was about. It makes it too easy for everyone to overlook Merrill's flaws and her part in it.

Given how many goes: 
- Matheri was right!
- No Merrill was right
I would say that they suceeded. I personally on the: The demon played them both, but the Keeper fell for it boat.
I basically blame the Keeper , but not everyone shares my opinion and respect their side since it is well argued.  

Well people argue about things that are not clear. That can be due to good writing or bad writing. It's not necessarily a measure of good writing. And frankly some people are just biased either pro or anti Merrill. For various reasons which don't necessarily have something to do with this quest(line).

[esper]

AlexXIV wrote...

esper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

esper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I am still in the opinion the story doesn't come across as the writers intended. I have a hard time to believe that the moral of Merrill's story is 'it's the keeper's fault'. I may be wrong here but usually you would expect Merrill's pride and (even if mild) recklessness persueing her goals comes biting her butt. But it comes biting the Keeper's butt. I think the point was to show that Merrill's actions led to the Keeper's death. Not that the Keeper was the biggest fool of the clan. Somehow I have the feeling that the person(s) responsible for writing the dalish in DA keep overlooking in stuff and making logic jumps. It may be because the writers usually know more than the readers/players. I can only say it doesn't make sense to me, and I can only assume what they wanted to say with it.

The point of the story is to show how pride can lead to destruction. Both character's are pridefull and where to put the blame is purposely made ambivalent.

Well but what went wrong is that you have no way to see what would have happened if Meredith had not done what she did. If you could convince the keeper to let go or something or trust you to deal with it alone, and then it resulted in Merrill dying then I could see the point of the keeper. But in the story at hand we have what people in this thread already stated. It's the keeper who more or less badmouthes Merrill in front of the clan and it is also her who acts hypocritical. It is also her who puts Merrill's wellfare over the clan's wellfare. And ultimately it is her who frees the demon, not Merrill. So just looking at the facts you have to cast all blame on the keeper. And that's what bothers me because I am sure that's not what the story was about. It makes it too easy for everyone to overlook Merrill's flaws and her part in it.

Given how many goes: 
- Matheri was right!
- No Merrill was right
I would say that they suceeded. I personally on the: The demon played them both, but the Keeper fell for it boat.
I basically blame the Keeper , but not everyone shares my opinion and respect their side since it is well argued.  

Well people argue about things that are not clear. That can be due to good writing or bad writing. It's not necessarily a measure of good writing. And frankly some people are just biased either pro or anti Merrill. For various reasons which don't necessarily have something to do with this quest(line).

And the point is to NOT make them clear so there is something to argue about. If the game said Mathari is right or Merrill right, there would be no argument. Everything about mages is about the potentiel danger, if Merrill got possessed there wouldn't be a point to argue because Mathari would be right. The discussion is: Would Merrill have gotten possessed if Mathari hadn't interfered? I think no, Mathari was being played. I also think that everyone is their own master and Mathari wasn't forced at gun point to take the demon in, so it is her fault, but the possiblilty for another interprented of the situation exits.

[AlexXIV]

esper wrote...

And the point is to NOT make them clear so there is something to argue about. If the game said Mathari is right or Merrill right, there would be no argument. Everything about mages is about the potentiel danger, if Merrill got possessed there wouldn't be a point to argue because Mathari would be right. The discussion is: Would Merrill have gotten possessed if Mathari hadn't interfered? I think no, Mathari was being played. I also think that everyone is their own master and Mathari wasn't forced at gun point to take the demon in, so it is her fault, but the possiblilty for another interprented of the situation exits.

I personally don't give much to the opinion that things should be as ambivalent as possible so people can keep talking about it. I think people want answers, not just always more questions. I mean you don't discuss things if you know there can only be 2 opinions and no resolution as to which is true. I mean I appreciate if a matter is complicated and requires discussion to be resolved. But if there is no right and wrong, there is also no point to discuss.

I guess this is a matter of  taste, etc.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 01 novembre 2011 - 05:37 .

[esper]

[quote]AlexXIV wrote...

[quote]esper wrote...
[/quote]

And the point is to NOT make them clear so there is something to argue about. If the game said Mathari is right or Merrill right, there would be no argument. Everything about mages is about the potentiel danger, if Merrill got possessed there wouldn't be a point to argue because Mathari would be right. The discussion is: Would Merrill have gotten possessed if Mathari hadn't interfered? I think no, Mathari was being played. I also think that everyone is their own master and Mathari wasn't forced at gun point to take the demon in, so it is her fault, but the possiblilty for another interprented of the situation exits.[/quote]
I personally don't give much to the opinion that things should be as ambivalent as possible so people can keep talking about it. I think people want answers, not just always more questions. I mean you don't discuss things if you know there can only be 2 opinions and no resolution as to which is true. I mean I appreciate if a matter is complicated and requires discussion to be resolved. But if there is no right and wrong, there is also no point to discuss.

I guess this is a matter of  taste, etc.[/quote]

There often is no right and wrong when it comes to 'might have happened' which is the case here. Also it is the question about blood magic is a moral dangerous area and thus we will never reach a right or wrong. One day I think we will be told about what the Eluvian is, but we will properly never get a clear cut answer to if blood magic is wrong or right, because it boils down to moral standards that does not agree with each other.
I personally see no problem with blood magic as long as it does not involve mind control or demon summoning. But as long as you use your own health, I really think it is your own problem. 

[AlexXIV]

I don't hold it againt Merrill that she uses bloodmagic. I hold it against her that she is dealing with demons at the risk of the lifes of her clan and friends including Hawke.

[esper]

I think that dealing with Audacity was dangerous, but truth to be told Merrill only does it trice and she purposely moves away from the clan. She does tries to completely it without the demon. Do I think that going back to Audacity instead of keep trying to figure out new ways to restore the mirror is stupid? Yes, I think so. I don't think Audacity was ever going to help her restore the mirror more than it had already helped.
But Hawke agrees to the danger and the clan should have moved away from Sundermount by then.

[Addai]

Refresh my memory. When does Marethari chastise Merrill for using blood magic? Her problem is with Merrill's attempt to restore the eluvian and consorting with demons to do so. She is a bit hypocritical in this, too, since in Origins she tells you she wishes the eluvian had not been smashed because she wanted to look for a cure to the poisoning from it, and that's what Merrill says she wanted at first.  Before she goes all obsessive.

The main problem with assigning blame to either Marethari or Merrill is that the whole plot rests on the inexplicable decision of the Dalish to stay near Kirkwall for nearly a decade. That sort of renders the discussion useless, IMO.

Modifié par Addai67, 01 novembre 2011 - 06:12 .

[Forst1999]

@Addai67
After killing the Varteral, she laments that the mirror led Merrill to blood magic. That indicates that blood magic is not ok for her. Also "You have always known that your blood magic had a price, da'len". She clearly has a problem not only with the eluvian, but with blood magic too.

[maxernst]

Without knowing what the outcome would have been had Merrill been left to her own devices, it's impossible to say.

[WhiteKnyght]

AlexXIV wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Yes it's true. And here's why.

Speaking of smug...I'm going to smugly point out that it's not so much "true" as it is your opinion.

1. She condemns Merrill for using blood magic. Yet how do you think she was able to prolong Mahariel's life after he/she was tainted and inevetiably die or be recruited? The poison travels through the blood after all. And the Dalish aren't the Chantry, they have no laws explicitly forbidding blood magic.

2. She 'warns' the whole clan about Merrill and demonizes her(pun intended) to them. Which leads to Pol's death, and she acts smug about it. Merrill grieved more for Pol than she did. Merrill wasn't even living with them anymore so there was no reason to warn.

3. Marethari deliberately becomes an abomination to protect Merrill because she knew what the mirror would do if completed, when arguably could have just told Merrill right from the start. And this little screw up can lead to the death of her whole tribe.

The whole situation could have been avoided if Marethari were just fair and honest.

I never thought I'd say this but Zathrian had better character than she does.

1) There's no hard evidence that blood magic was used.

2) Whether she was smug or not is, again, sort of opinion.  I myself didn't read smug in her voice, but I won't argue that you didn't.  The warning leading to Pol's death can be argued or not.  What I fail to see is how this directly or even indirectly equates to what happened with the Eluvian.

3) This is about the only thing you and I agree on.  I do believe that Marethari should have gone into the whole "This is what the deal is" speech before Merrill started in on this whole thing, rather then waiting until the very end to do it.  Now, presumedly they had conversations and/or arguments about this whole thing off-screen, but just like there's no evidence of blood magic, there's also no evidence that she was forthwright about this whole thing.

1) Well I just started a Dalish Origin and Marethari referred to her treatment as "The old magics" and it has been stated that the Arlathian elves had blood magic before humans ever did.

Well old magic does not equal bloodmagic. But I understand that in the old times bloodmagic was more common and not a forbidden art. So likely many powerful old magics actually required blood as fuel. I mean it's cheaper and easier to get than lyrium. And we don't even know if the elves of Arlathan even had access to lyrium. I mean they were a reclusive bunch and I doubt they mingled with dwarves without need.

Look at Zathrian. Nobody in his tribe seemed bothered by his uses of blood magic. And it was probably blood magic that he or Lanaya would use to remove the werewolf contamination from the hunters.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Nobody in Zathrian's clan would be aware of his sue of blood magic, since Keepers and their Firsts never use magic in public.

[WhiteKnyght]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Nobody in Zathrian's clan would be aware of his sue of blood magic, since Keepers and their Firsts never use magic in public.

It doesn't mean they are never told of it though.

The truth about Zathiran was revealed after he ended the curse. And nobody was up in arms about it.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 01 novembre 2011 - 06:59 .