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[The Sapien]

Well, yeah. I thought it was obvious.

Marethari was completely mad. And a quiter for her race, barely surviving.

Only Merrill of her clan was actually doing anything to help her kind rise once again. The rest just lived in fear, too content as slaves or hiding.

[DPSSOC]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
She tells Merrill and Hawke that what she said was about Merrill bringing the taint back from a shard that was cleansed. If the taint was still present Anders would've been able to sense it and say so.

And here we run into the problem.  Merrill cleansed the taint with magic she got from a demon; so the clan has to trust that the demon actually did remove the taint rather than just hide it (we the player know this is unlikely ala Avernus but none of the Dalish do).  The only person who could confirm, yeah the shard is clean is Anders and frankly the Dalish are more likely to trust the demon than a shemlen.

There's no one the Dalish can trust who can definitively say the shard is clean; Merrill only says it's clean because a demon told her she was cleansing it, and the only person who might be able to confirm otherwise is human, and an abomination.

That the shard could still carry the taint is a possibility Marethari acknowledges, Merrill does not and takes no precautions against such an eventuality which could endanger the clan.

[Xilizhra]

And here we run into the problem. Merrill cleansed the taint with magic she got from a demon; so the clan has to trust that the demon actually did remove the taint rather than just hide it (we the player know this is unlikely ala Avernus but none of the Dalish do). The only person who could confirm, yeah the shard is clean is Anders and frankly the Dalish are more likely to trust the demon than a shemlen.

That's their problem.

That the shard could still carry the taint is a possibility Marethari acknowledges, Merrill does not and takes no precautions against such an eventuality which could endanger the clan.

Because Merrill, unlike the rest of the clan, can trust Anders, and he senses nothing. And there's no reason why Anders couldn't know about Avernus.

[AlexXIV]

Bottomline you could say that Merrill was lucky enough to run into Hawke and friends to help her out. Without them Marethari's fears may have come true. Still Marethari's actions remain useless and unnecessary because they had everything under control until the Keeper-Abomination.

[Ryzaki]

They were both at fault.

Marethari however should've moved her clan along and let Merrill face whatever fate she was dealt on her own. It would've been the wise (if cold) thing to do. Sometimes you have to let those you love succeed or fail without getting involved.

[Xilizhra]

Marethari however should've moved her clan along and let Merrill face whatever fate she was dealt on her own. It would've been the wise (if cold) thing to do. Sometimes you have to let those you love succeed or fail without getting involved.

Easier to do if she wasn't under Audacity's influence. If she had resisted, of course, that would have been an extremely angry demon... but probably nothing more would have come of it, given its imprisoned impotence.

[AlexXIV]

The topic is that Marethari is more at fault than Merrill. That both have part guilt was never a question. But Merrill merely breaks clan rules, which cause her banishment. There the matter ends for Merrill. Marethari endangers Merrill, Hawke and friends, and the entire clan. Because if the demon would have killed Hawke and company and then took over the clan, what would have happened? Nothing good I guess.

The Keeper let a demon possess her. How can anyone even think that this is not much worse than what Merrill ever did? And Merrill had no blame for the keeper's action. Marethari is at no point forced to act. It's her own choice. If anyone manipulated the keeper then it was the demon.

[WhiteKnyght]

Another spot on Marethari's character is how she treated Feynriel's mother.

She had to leave the tribe when she got pregnant with him and when she accepted Feynriel into the tribe she refused to allow her to return. But after Feynriel is rescued from the Fade his mother asks again and Marethari says that she was the one who chose to stay away.

So that woman is just messed up.

[Xilizhra]

Note that Marethari offers to bring Arianni back after Feynriel is out of the picture. I suspect that "choosing to stay away" was about keeping Fenyriel as her own child.

[General User]

...or Marethari was never the reason Arianni left the Clan.

[Xilizhra]

Perhaps. I wouldn't put it past Marethari, though.

[WhiteKnyght]

General User wrote...

...or Marethari was never the reason Arianni left the Clan.

When Feynriel goes to the Dalish, Arianni is shocked and said the clan didn't even want her to raise him among them.

Then if you talk to her afterwards she says she tried to visit Feynriel but Marethari refused her.


And let's not forget. It was Marethari who advises you to make Feynriel tranquil. And she's the one who sent Mahariel away with Duncan and gives him/her no say. The Dalish warden even has the option to say later that he would rather have had stayed and died.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 07 novembre 2011 - 12:52 .

[AlexXIV]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

...or Marethari was never the reason Arianni left the Clan.

When Feynriel goes to the Dalish, Arianni is shocked and said the clan didn't even want her to raise him among them.

Then if you talk to her afterwards she says she tried to visit Feynriel but Marethari refused her.

Yeah considering all and everything it would probably have been better to give the boy to the Circle. After all Marethari could be an abomination at this point already.

[Xilizhra]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

...or Marethari was never the reason Arianni left the Clan.

When Feynriel goes to the Dalish, Arianni is shocked and said the clan didn't even want her to raise him among them.

Then if you talk to her afterwards she says she tried to visit Feynriel but Marethari refused her.


And let's not forget. It was Marethari who advises you to make Feynriel tranquil. And she's the one who sent Mahariel away with Duncan and gives him/her no say. The Dalish warden even has the option to say later that he would rather have had stayed and died.

It would seem that Marethari wants nothing going on in her clan that she doesn't control, certainly...

[General User]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

...or Marethari was never the reason Arianni left the Clan.

When Feynriel goes to the Dalish, Arianni is shocked and said the clan didn't even want her to raise him among them.

Then if you talk to her afterwards she says she tried to visit Feynriel but Marethari refused her.


And let's not forget. It was Marethari who advises you to make Feynriel tranquil. And she's the one who sent Mahariel away with Duncan and gives him/her no say. The Dalish warden even has the option to say later that he would rather have had stayed and died.

You've never done or failed to do something you later regretted because that's what your culture/society/family/friends wanted or expected of you?

You've never done or failed to do something as a leader that you later regretted because that's what those over or under you expected or demanded?

Modifié par General User, 07 novembre 2011 - 12:59 .

[Xilizhra]

You've never done or failed to do something you later regretted because that's what your culture/society/family/friends wanted or expected of you?

Not when I was in charge, and nothing to that extent.

You've never done or failed to do something you later regretted because that's what those over or under you expected or demanded?

Ditto.

[AlexXIV]

General User wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

...or Marethari was never the reason Arianni left the Clan.

When Feynriel goes to the Dalish, Arianni is shocked and said the clan didn't even want her to raise him among them.

Then if you talk to her afterwards she says she tried to visit Feynriel but Marethari refused her.


And let's not forget. It was Marethari who advises you to make Feynriel tranquil. And she's the one who sent Mahariel away with Duncan and gives him/her no say. The Dalish warden even has the option to say later that he would rather have had stayed and died.

You've never done or failed to do something you later regretted because that's what your culture/society/family/friends wanted or expected of you?

You've never done or failed to do something you later regretted because that's what those over or under you expected or demanded?

If you don't learn from your mistakes then all your regret is useless. She remained the same control freak to her grave.

[WhiteKnyght]

General User wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

...or Marethari was never the reason Arianni left the Clan.

When Feynriel goes to the Dalish, Arianni is shocked and said the clan didn't even want her to raise him among them.

Then if you talk to her afterwards she says she tried to visit Feynriel but Marethari refused her.


And let's not forget. It was Marethari who advises you to make Feynriel tranquil. And she's the one who sent Mahariel away with Duncan and gives him/her no say. The Dalish warden even has the option to say later that he would rather have had stayed and died.

You've never done or failed to do something you later regretted because that's what your culture/society/family/friends wanted or expected of you?

You've never done or failed to do something as a leader that you later regretted because that's what those over or under you expected or demanded?

Don't forget that all of the tribe defers to the Keeper's judgment. And don't forget that it was Marethari who poisoned the clan against Merrill.

Dalish Keepers don't let themselves succumb to peer pressure. Its the clan who believe the Keeper is the smartest and wisest among them. Merrill was the only one who questioned Marethari and look what happened. She was pretty much forced into exile because of how badly she was being treated.

And don't forget that Marethari never expessed any regret or remorse, and never apologized for anything. She just brushes blame off of herself whenever it gets remotely close.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 07 novembre 2011 - 01:13 .

[General User]

or just said to yourself: "I wish things didn't have to be this way. But this is world we live in."

[Xilizhra]

General User wrote...

or just said to yourself: "I wish things didn't have to be this way. But this is world we live in."

That's either lying to oneself or others if you're applying it to Arianni or Fenyriel.

[General User]

I was thinking about Marethari.

[Xilizhra]

Marethari seems to regret absolutely nothing. She has power and control, she enjoys it, and she'll see nothing threaten it.

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

And here we run into the problem. Merrill cleansed the taint with magic she got from a demon; so the clan has to trust that the demon actually did remove the taint rather than just hide it (we the player know this is unlikely ala Avernus but none of the Dalish do). The only person who could confirm, yeah the shard is clean is Anders and frankly the Dalish are more likely to trust the demon than a shemlen.

That's their problem.

Indeed.  However you can't honestly expect people to trust in something they have no reliable source on when it could endanger everyone.

Xilizhra wrote...

That the shard could still carry the taint is a possibility Marethari acknowledges, Merrill does not and takes no precautions against such an eventuality which could endanger the clan.

Because Merrill, unlike the rest of the clan, can trust Anders, and he senses nothing. And there's no reason why Anders couldn't know about Avernus.

Which is valid after she meets Anders.  She was playing with that thing long before Hawke showed up.  The point still stands that Merrill trusts the word of a demon and takes 0 precautions to protect her clan while she's working on something potentially dangerous.  They, and Marethari, are justified in worrying that she'll screw up and doom them all.  It'd be no different than if I were to work on chemical weapons in my garage with no safety equipment.  I may think it's safe, but I can't expect my neighbours to just accept it on my say so.

[megski]

Xilizhra wrote...

Marethari seems to regret absolutely nothing. She has power and control, she enjoys it, and she'll see nothing threaten it.

So now Marethari is some kind of tyrant? 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Uh, wasn't Arianni from another clan? She left a dalish clan long ago because Feynriel is obviously decades old and Marethari's clan only just arrived in the Free Marches.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 novembre 2011 - 02:09 .