249 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

KilrB wrote...

Gave it a second chance.

Gave it a third. <_<

That's more than it deserved.

It's still the worst BioWare game I've played, and one of the poorest excuses for an rpg I've ever played.

Time will tell but with Skyrim due out in 9 days, and what we've seen of it so far, the future of DA looks pretty iffy from where I'm standing.

On the heels of DA2, being a good or even great game won't be enough for DA3.

It will have to be spectacular.

It will have to sell those 4.5 million copies they predicted for DA2, and then some.

If it doesn't that'll be the end of the DA franchise, at the very least.

The "improvements" seen and promised thus far, and the commitment to continue with many of the disliked design changes do not lead me to believe that the current DA team have what it takes to produce a title that can go toe-to-toe with AAA competition.

I didn't have to lower my standards for DA:O, FO:NV, TW2, or DE:HR to enjoy them.

I will not lower my standards just because BioWare lowered theirs.

Um...you haven't watched the taped conventions where the developers talk. This game does not mean the end of the franchise and they already said the next game would be a better combination between the two.

[csfteeeer]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Oh god.

This guy....This guy has attempted to interpret design flaws as intended originalities?

Oh god, i need to lie down...

First off, This.

Morroian wrote...

You know similar arguments have been put forward here. In fact I actually wondered if he'd been reading the BSN.

well he did mention something about reading criticism, so maybe he was talking about BSN.(where else would you look for feedback and critisism if not the Official Forums of Said game?)

[Yuqi]

Ihave beaten origins four times.. and awakening once.. and witch hunt once.
However Ihave beaten DA2 eight times.. and I still like it. (Two of those hawkes had to be deleted because Iwas running out of space on my HD)

So Ihave given it eight chances,and will be on my ninth soon enough. Alot of the bugs and glitches were fixed in the 1.02/1.03 patch. I say, give DA2 a second chance.

[devSin]

I love the characters. I like the more concise interaction.

They doesn't magically make the ass parts of the game any less stinky. And it's a GAME. That I have to play in order to progress.

If David wants to come to my house and read me stories poolside with a bevy of alcoholic beverages, he needs to hop on a jet and come on over. I'm all over that.

But if he has to put that story into a game, then I'm going to judge it as a game, and because he worked on it, it damn well better be good.

Dragon Age II wasn't. I like Dragon Age II. But I recognize that it was not a good enough game to come from the Dragon Age team, from BioWare, notwithstanding David and Luke and Mary and Sheryl all writing up a perfect storm.

[Rawgrim]

Allready given it a second chance. Didn`t work.

[Dariuszp]

I did start second playthrough. Game sux. And after Witcher 2 release - it sux even more. Article writer find something nice in a game ? Wow. Bioware make games for quite long time and he found one thing he like ?

Too bad that everything else is a pile of crap. It's like you are swimming in a load of sh** and you find a stone that don't smell so bad. Wow... a stone...

[flexxdk]

I gave the game enough chances as it is. Then again, I'm no roleplayer; I can only play the way I would... play. (That didn't make any sense, did it?)

The DLC's might be improvements, but I still am no fan of DA2.

This doesn't mean, however, that I haven't changed my mind. I did that based on my own opinions. I'm not going to change my opinion or replay the game because someone tells me to.

Modifié par Whacka, 02 novembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[Dubya75]

Dariuszp wrote...

I did start second playthrough. Game sux. And after Witcher 2 release - it sux even more. Article writer find something nice in a game ? Wow. Bioware make games for quite long time and he found one thing he like ?

Too bad that everything else is a pile of crap. It's like you are swimming in a load of sh** and you find a stone that don't smell so bad. Wow... a stone...

Well yes, clearly you have no intention of listening to reason and by the tone of your post I guess we won't be seeing any more posts from you regarding DA2. Fair enough.
The only problem I have with this type of criticism is that it is not intelligent criticism and therefore isn't helpful to anyone.
You're angry, that much is clear. But what do you think the benefit of a post like this has? I'll answer that for you - NONE.

[Dubya75]

Whacka wrote...

A turd is a turd. Even when polished it is still a turd.

The DLC's might be improvements, but it still is a turd.

I gave the game enough chances as it is.

This doesn't mean, however, that I haven't changed my mind. I did that based on my own opinions. I'm not going to replay the game just because someone made a "good point" or has a strong opinion.

The fact that you're still read the posts on this forum (Dragon Age 2 specific) tells me there's something about this turd that still attracts you. 
And therefore your statement doesn't carry much weight.

Giving the game " enough chances" is not going to change what it is. You need to either move on or change your thinking about DA2. It is not Origins. Yes, it has flaws. But it also has many strengths that very few other games in the genre today share.

Give constructive criticism if you have any. Shouting how DA2 is a turd is completely useless.

[Gunderic]

No. Heck, I never even gave it a first chance.

[flexxdk]

@Dubya75 (or something)
Yeah, providing criticism isn't my strongest point, I'll admit. It  was also the part I was about to remove from my post. 

I find it hard to explain what I don't like. Basically the re-use of evironments were a dealbreaker for me. I didn't like it in the DAO DLC's, and I was horrified to see it's return in DA2. The DA2 don't do this anymore, but that doesn't change the fact that DA2 still suffers from this.

Now, a SPOILER WARNING.
The end was also disappointing.
It didn't matter whose side I chose, I always had to fight both (while probably making sense for the Templars, fighting the First Enchanter when siding with the mages didn't make sense).

There are parts I don't like of DA2, but I just don't know how to explain it in words. 

And I never said that I wanted something like Origins. What I did claim is that I changed my mind about the game. And more in a good way. I'm still no fan of it, but I'll have to deal with that.

Modifié par Whacka, 02 novembre 2011 - 09:56 .

[Dariuszp]

Dubya75 wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

I did start second playthrough. Game sux. And after Witcher 2 release - it sux even more. Article writer find something nice in a game ? Wow. Bioware make games for quite long time and he found one thing he like ?

Too bad that everything else is a pile of crap. It's like you are swimming in a load of sh** and you find a stone that don't smell so bad. Wow... a stone...

Well yes, clearly you have no intention of listening to reason and by the tone of your post I guess we won't be seeing any more posts from you regarding DA2. Fair enough.
The only problem I have with this type of criticism is that it is not intelligent criticism and therefore isn't helpful to anyone.
You're angry, that much is clear. But what do you think the benefit of a post like this has? I'll answer that for you - NONE.

I listen. I just don't agree. IMHO for RPG there are 3 major factor that make game good (in that order):
1. gameplay
2. story
3. characters
Dragon Age II sux at first two of them and 3rd is only partialy good. I did find some characters interesting. Aveline is one of them. But it was not enough.  When game is repeative, boring, short and ugly looking - one or two characters don't make it good.

As I said before. Swimming in a pile of sh** just to find a stone or even a diamond don't change a fact that for most of your time - you were swimming in a pile of sh**.
You can find constructive criticism few months ago when I finished game for a first time. You can find more of it if you find my old post when I played the demo.

As I said once - market verified this. Sales charts confirm it. 8 weeks and BW/EA sold 10% DAII comparing to Origin. They drop the price by 50% and throw ME 2 for free just to increase sales and that didn't work so well. That's yur answer.

[philippe willaume]

Dubya75 wrote...

Whacka wrote...

A turd is a turd. Even when polished it is still a turd.

The DLC's might be improvements, but it still is a turd.

I gave the game enough chances as it is.

This doesn't mean, however, that I haven't changed my mind. I did that based on my own opinions. I'm not going to replay the game just because someone made a "good point" or has a strong opinion.

The fact that you're still read the posts on this forum (Dragon Age 2 specific) tells me there's something about this turd that still attracts you. 
And therefore your statement doesn't carry much weight.

Giving the game " enough chances" is not going to change what it is. You need to either move on or change your thinking about DA2. It is not Origins. Yes, it has flaws. But it also has many strengths that very few other games in the genre today share.

Give constructive criticism if you have any. Shouting how DA2 is a turd is completely useless.

Hello
Well that thread is all about opinions. There is a constrictive criticism thread for Cartesian argumentation
He did not like it you like it and that how you both feel. There are no right or wrong

personally I think that DA2 is bellow par, and that ME, ME2 DA:0 DA:A, TW, TW2, BG, NWN and NWN 2 are far superior.
Yes i agree it doesn’t not make DA2 the worst game ever  and calling it turd might offend some sensibilities.
as a stand alone it is ok albeit simplistic and repetitive but it does not compare favourably to other BW titles

Phil

[milena87]

Did DA2 exceeded my (very high) expectations? Apart from the companions, no unfortunately.
Did I enjoyed it? Yes, it's maybe the game I enjoyed the most this year.
Was it the best game this year? I've played Portal 2, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex and Batman and they're all objectively better games. Still, if you ask me which game I'd like to play again I'd say DA2 without hesitation.

I don't expect every game I buy to be the best game ever and I don't even care that much about the problems a game might have as long as it's fun to play.

Of course there might be something wrong with me: I prefer KotOR2 to KotOR, I enjoyed Alpha Protocol more than Red Dead last year and I was kinda disappointed with The Witcher 2 (I liked the first one more)...

[LilyasAvalon]

First impressions always count. Even with additions of Legacy and MotA, DA2, no matter how many times you play it or how much extra money you spend to dress it up to look half way decent, is still DA2.

I have continued to play this game, will continue to play this game, but the more times I play it, the more things I find wrong with it, the more growing disgust and disrespect I have for the team that put it together (Alas, even for David Gaider, who has become a somewhat idol of mine since I joined the Bioware fandom) and the more it sullies both the Bioware and Dragon Age name for me.

There were ELEMENTS of a great game in here, there was potential, but whatever there was, it rotted the moment it hit the store markets. There's been proof that the team has responded to our feedback, but all the DLC's in the world will not fix DA2, and if anything, brings it down further by the simple fact that we have to pay to 'fix' the game.

Put it up against all the other games that have come out and are coming out, e.g. Witcher 2, Portal 2, Assassin's Creed Revelations, Dues Ex, etc. and Dragon Age 2 only falls farther.

Give up on making it look half way decent, it's a lost cause, focus your efforts on making DA3 over the top awesome.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 02 novembre 2011 - 11:32 .

[Dubya75]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

First impressions always count. Even with additions of Legacy and MotA, DA2, no matter how many times you play it or how much extra money you spend to dress it up to look half way decent, is still DA2.

I have continued to play this game, will continue to play this game, but the more times I play it, the more things I find wrong with it, the more growing disgust and disrespect I have for the team that put it together (Alas, even for David Gaider, who has become a somewhat idol of mine since I joined the Bioware fandom) and the more it sullies both the Bioware and Dragon Age name for me.

There were ELEMENTS of a great game in here, there was potential, but whatever there was, it rotted the moment it hit the store markets. There's been proof that the team has responded to our feedback, but all the DLC's in the world will not fix DA2, and if anything, brings it down further by the simple fact that we have to pay to 'fix' the game.

Put it up against all the other games that have come out and are coming out, e.g. Witcher 2, Portal 2, Assassin's Creed Revelations, Dues Ex, etc. and Dragon Age 2 only falls farther.

Give up on making it look half way decent, it's a lost cause, focus your efforts on making DA3 over the top awesome.

And I'm sure Bioware realises that if the franchise is to survive, it is going to take nothing less than an over-the-top awesome DA3.
If Naughty Dog can produce a 10/10 game (Uncharted 3) in 2 years flat, then Bioware can do it too.

For me, DA2 would have been 9.5/10 if there were no recycled areas. Everything else, I'm content with (half a point lost because of the non-sense trash loot).

Modifié par Dubya75, 02 novembre 2011 - 12:04 .

[naledgeborn]

GreenSoda wrote...

So the author realizes that DA2 forces the PC in a kind of a powerless bystander position...and in coming to terms with that he thinks it's a good game ?

No.

Just no.

DA2 wasn't a traditional bad game and many negative comments go way over the mark, but it was a disappointment -simply because one expects more than a mediocre expierence from a game with a Bioware label on it's cover.

This. And The Hawkes, Varric, Isabela, Merrill, Fenris ect. were hardly the hallmarks of characterization the author makes them out to be. Yes, they were fleshed out, but BioWare's written better and in this case more is less.

[Dariuszp]

Dubya75 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

First impressions always count. Even with additions of Legacy and MotA, DA2, no matter how many times you play it or how much extra money you spend to dress it up to look half way decent, is still DA2.

I have continued to play this game, will continue to play this game, but the more times I play it, the more things I find wrong with it, the more growing disgust and disrespect I have for the team that put it together (Alas, even for David Gaider, who has become a somewhat idol of mine since I joined the Bioware fandom) and the more it sullies both the Bioware and Dragon Age name for me.

There were ELEMENTS of a great game in here, there was potential, but whatever there was, it rotted the moment it hit the store markets. There's been proof that the team has responded to our feedback, but all the DLC's in the world will not fix DA2, and if anything, brings it down further by the simple fact that we have to pay to 'fix' the game.

Put it up against all the other games that have come out and are coming out, e.g. Witcher 2, Portal 2, Assassin's Creed Revelations, Dues Ex, etc. and Dragon Age 2 only falls farther.

Give up on making it look half way decent, it's a lost cause, focus your efforts on making DA3 over the top awesome.

And I'm sure Bioware realises that if the franchise is to survive, it is going to take nothing less than an over-the-top awesome DA3.
If Naughty Dog can produce a 10/10 game (Uncharted 3) in 2 years flat, then Bioware can do it too.

For me, DA2 would have been 9.5/10 if there were no recycled areas. Everything else, I'm content with (half a point lost because of the non-sense trash loot).

Problem is that people look on DA II from the "Origin" point of view.
They will look at Dragon Age III from the DA II point of view. 

So there will be much more criticism. So if BW don't want to loose Dragon Age then they should make it very carefuly. It will be hard because they first try to alienate DAO fans and then, they failed to gain DA II fans. Now they have none.

[Uccio]

culletron1 wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

I like how people missed the whole point of what the article was about. The gaming community can be very superficial at times. Thanks for the article TC, I'll be sharing it on another site as it was good food for thought.

I believe most of the negativity is centered around the loss of control the player experiences or experienced. When Bioware removed the race specialization, implemented the voiced dialogue, and set the character up with a very distinct background many felt angry at the get go. DA2 had it's flaws, but it's story was compelling and it was bold. It sought to set itself apart from Origins and it did whether people like it or not. It gave the gamer a sense of what it meant to be a hero rather than a superhero as it set the stage for the colossal ramifications set to follow in the third installment. I actually applaud Bioware for not going the patsy route and doing the usual generic D&D superhero whose entourage and him/her save everyone and everything and happy endings run abundant.

I've heard people say this time and time again. Now I can't speak for anyone else but that is absolutely NOT why I dislike DA2.

The ideas of a voiced PC and moving through time rather than space were great ideas and I was all for them. I was also all for a darker plot... *HOWEVER*... DA2 was THE most underdeveloped AAA game I have played in recent years... It lacked polish in every way. 

Kirkwall is dull, the character models are dull, the NPCs don't even speak to you anymore, you can't talk to your companions when you want to anymore, the map reuse is pathetic, the new game menus are horrid etc etc etc... the whole game stinks of a rush job.

IMO what people say was "a loss of control" was mainly down to an underdeveloped game... The player could have had a loss of control of the plot outcome but could still have gave meaningful choices which determined how the bad things would happen... 

Exactly. The storyline was simply buried under all these flaws. I have no problem of being the lesser hero, who talks and has only one backround. I just can´t make myself to replay the game because all those massive problems, it is simply not worth the time and energy to find different nuances when the game on whole sucks. 

[Morty Smith]

Dubya75 wrote...

If Naughty Dog can produce a 10/10 game (Uncharted 3) in 2 years flat, then Bioware can do it too.

In fact Naughty Dog (UC3) did and Bioware/Dragon Age Team (DA2) didn´t. So where is your basis for that statement?

[devSin]

Dubya75 wrote...

For me, DA2 would have been 9.5/10 if there were no recycled areas. Everything else, I'm content with (half a point lost because of the non-sense trash loot).

Personally, I think the problems run deeper. The level design is mostly off (though the exterior city areas were fine to me), the structure is insufficient for a game of this length (you cannot introduce the whole of the world in the first 5 hours and then tell the player to run back and forth through it, over and over again, for the next 55, with just the brief respite of the only unique dungeon 1/3 the way in), the encounter design is again insufficient (spamming nonsense battles every 10 minutes to break up boring city travel is not endless fun), the interface (not the GUI, but things like party management and inventory behavior) is weak, and so on.

The story doesn't bother me. I like the characters. I like the writing. I enjoy the gameplay mechanics and most of the art. The music and sound are good (I despise their playback filter, however, that makes everything sound so muddy and repressed; it somehow failed during the final battle once, and it was glorious to hear all the sounds as they actually are—you could hear the taps of footsteps on the ground, the blaring of the battle music, the shouts and sounds of combat).

So there's a lot of great content in there. Content that deserves a "second chance". But the game itself? It doesn't stand a chance.

[Dubya75]

devSin wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

For me, DA2 would have been 9.5/10 if there were no recycled areas. Everything else, I'm content with (half a point lost because of the non-sense trash loot).

Personally, I think the problems run deeper. The level design is mostly off (though the exterior city areas were fine to me), the structure is insufficient for a game of this length (you cannot introduce the whole of the world in the first 5 hours and then tell the player to run back and forth through it, over and over again, for the next 55, with just the brief respite of the only unique dungeon 1/3 the way in), the encounter design is again insufficient (spamming nonsense battles every 10 minutes to break up boring city travel is not endless fun), the interface (not the GUI, but things like party management and inventory behavior) is weak, and so on.

The story doesn't bother me. I like the characters. I like the writing. I enjoy the gameplay mechanics and most of the art. The music and sound are good (I despise their playback filter, however, that makes everything sound so muddy and repressed; it somehow failed during the final battle once, and it was glorious to hear all the sounds as they actually are—you could hear the taps of footsteps on the ground, the blaring of the battle music, the shouts and sounds of combat).

So there's a lot of great content in there. Content that deserves a "second chance". But the game itself? It doesn't stand a chance.

See, now THAT is useful and intelligent criticism (unlike "this sux" or "da2 is a turd")!
I respect your views, they are all valid points and to an extent I would agree with you on most.
Unlike games such as Hunted: Demon's Forge (how I regret ever playing that), there is still an undenyable something special about DA2 that for me, even in the light of all it's faults, sets it apart from other more generic titles.

Modifié par Dubya75, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:04 .

[KilrB]

Melca36 wrote...

KilrB wrote...

Gave it a second chance.

Gave it a third. <_<

That's more than it deserved.

It's still the worst BioWare game I've played, and one of the poorest excuses for an rpg I've ever played.

Time will tell but with Skyrim due out in 9 days, and what we've seen of it so far, the future of DA looks pretty iffy from where I'm standing.

On the heels of DA2, being a good or even great game won't be enough for DA3.

It will have to be spectacular.

It will have to sell those 4.5 million copies they predicted for DA2, and then some.

If it doesn't that'll be the end of the DA franchise, at the very least.

The "improvements" seen and promised thus far, and the commitment to continue with many of the disliked design changes do not lead me to believe that the current DA team have what it takes to produce a title that can go toe-to-toe with AAA competition.

I didn't have to lower my standards for DA:O, FO:NV, TW2, or DE:HR to enjoy them.

I will not lower my standards just because BioWare lowered theirs.

Um...you haven't watched the taped conventions where the developers talk. This game does not mean the end of the franchise and they already said the next game would be a better combination between the two.

Talk ....

Yes, thay did a lot of talking about DA2 too ...

So far, all I hear is talk.

Lots and LOTS of empty talk.

A "better combination" is NOT going to cut it.

Dubya75 wrote...  And I'm sure Bioware realises that if the franchise is to survive, it is
going to take nothing less than an over-the-top awesome DA3.

See ... even Dubya understands.

What they've shown and told us so far doesn't even come close to their current competition.

They've got a long way to go for "over-the-top awesome" and I seriously doubt that they, other than Gaider, are capable of it.

[tmp7704]

Kroitz wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

If Naughty Dog can produce a 10/10 game (Uncharted 3) in 2 years flat, then Bioware can do it too.

In fact Naughty Dog (UC3) did and Bioware/Dragon Age Team (DA2) didn´t. So where is your basis for that statement?

I'd say the game being 8-10 hours long has something to do with it.

[Dubya75]

KilrB wrote...

They've got a long way to go for "over-the-top awesome" and I seriously doubt that they, other than Gaider, are capable of it.

Have a little faith!