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Mages vs Templars


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#26
jamesp81

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tevikolady wrote...

My point is, you 'over-hear' these things, but you don't exactly get to interract with them.

YOu get to encounter Huon (yes, that elf, thank you I couldn't remember his name), and kill him for his hideous use of Blood Magic.

You kill Evellina who turned to Blood Magic

You kill Decimus who turned to Blood Magic

You kill Grace who turned to Blood Magic.

You Quentin, that bastard who killed your mother, for using Blood Magic.

You can kill (or send Idunna to the circle) for turning to Blood Magic

You can kill Gascard for being a blood mage, or let him go.

You kill Taronhe for being a crazy blood mage.

You can kill Denarius who uses Blood Magic


LOTS of incidents of blood magic all over the game.    And I never went to the Dalish camp before, but I just recently read that on the wiki, before I read this post.

You kill the tempars harrassing the people supporting apostates.  You deal with Ser karras (I killed him) so I never knew baout the Alain incidents.  And you kill the death squads that are trying to ferret out Meredith opposers.  I get that, but you don't do any quests for them.  You *might* overhear it, but you don't really get involved in it, minus two or three occassions.

I think for every mage driven to blood magic, there should ahve been a templar quest that supported some kind of the templars have gone too far bit.  That was what I was trying to get at.

Back in Origins, I played the circle tower and came across the apprentice who view her gift as a curse.  I almost deleted my character when I came across that because it sickened me that the Chantry had brainwashed even mages into thinking the power they were BORN with was a curse, an evil vile thing.

IT WENT AGAINST EVERYTHING I BELIEVE IN!  Me, as in myself, not my character.

In a world where there IS magic, and people are BORN with it, then it is not a CRIME to have this power.  If you are born with it, then the Maker blessed you with it.  It is not an evil vile thing.  Like anything else in the world, your actions determine who you are.

For me, in DA2, it was not me vs the mages vs the Templars.  It was the chantry I did not condone.  It is the Chantry and how it views mages and Templar alike that I didn't like.

I practically cheered when I saw that Chantry blow up.  My eyes teared up and I almost kissed Anders on the spot.

sorry, I digress.

/rant off


It's kind of funny, I always RP my characters in  DA as devout Andrastians.  Maybe it's because I don't have a reflexive dislike of organized religion IRL.  I have to say, though, after Elthina demonstrated her inability or unwillingness, whichever it was, to defuse the situation, I just couldn't get too worked over Ander murder-bombing the place.  My only reaction was, "Well, they made this **** inevitable, I guess we all got to suffer the consequences for the things we do or don't do."

Seriously, though, Elthina got to really annoying me.  Meredith was presiding over the organized rape and torture of people who had committed no crime, and Elthina didn't do a damned thing to curtail it even when she had the authority to do so.  A lot of trouble could've been avoided if she'd simply ordered Meredith, under threat of expulsion from the order, to clean up the templars.   Meredith may not have liked it, but she's a soldier which means when she gets orders she shuts the **** up, salutes, shouts 'sir, yes sir' and carries those orders out.  Or leaves the templars altogether.

#27
jamesp81

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AlexXIV wrote...

Well Gregoire even let the Warden go in, which was a pretty high risk because there was no way of knowing that the Warden could do what an entire host of templars failed to do. The only saving grace at this point was that the Warden was the protagonist and had his/her plotshield against demon corruption up. I mean if you look at it from Gregoire's perspective it was impossible that the Warden could succeed by any means. So letting him/her in was almost foolish if we are realistic because he'd lose a good fighter and maybe even strengthen the demons if they had managed to possess the Warden and his/her merry group of adventurers.

Maybe fair to mention here that the good thing about DA2 there is that at least such things were more realistic than in DA:O. I mean Hawke doesn't get to pull off such stunts, except maybe the one thing with the half-elven dreamer boy.


I could make a case that this is why  DA2's writing isn't quite as good as DAO.  One of the elements of a good, interactive heroic tale is that the hero gets to do crazy badass stuff and get away with it.

Then again, you could say that it was unrealistic that Hawke could've ever defeated a Tevinter magister (Corypheus)  or an ancient demon from the deep roads (rock wraith).  Just saying.

#28
AlexXIV

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jamesp81 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well Gregoire even let the Warden go in, which was a pretty high risk because there was no way of knowing that the Warden could do what an entire host of templars failed to do. The only saving grace at this point was that the Warden was the protagonist and had his/her plotshield against demon corruption up. I mean if you look at it from Gregoire's perspective it was impossible that the Warden could succeed by any means. So letting him/her in was almost foolish if we are realistic because he'd lose a good fighter and maybe even strengthen the demons if they had managed to possess the Warden and his/her merry group of adventurers.

Maybe fair to mention here that the good thing about DA2 there is that at least such things were more realistic than in DA:O. I mean Hawke doesn't get to pull off such stunts, except maybe the one thing with the half-elven dreamer boy.


I could make a case that this is why  DA2's writing isn't quite as good as DAO.  One of the elements of a good, interactive heroic tale is that the hero gets to do crazy badass stuff and get away with it.

Then again, you could say that it was unrealistic that Hawke could've ever defeated a Tevinter magister (Corypheus)  or an ancient demon from the deep roads (rock wraith).  Just saying.

I prefer if the hero isn't a superman. Or woman. I prefer when they are just smarter than others and find better ways to solve problems. But of course rushing head on into impossible odds and coming out on top is more epicImage IPB

#29
KJandrew

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tevikolady wrote...
You Quentin, that bastard who killed your mother, for using Blood Magic.

I thought i killed Quentin for killing my mum, rather than for using blood magic

#30
Bayz

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tevikolady wrote...

I think that Bioware did a poor job of trying to imply the freedom of character election in a conflict filled with grey areas than they meant to.


Fixed that for you. TBH, helping the mages almost always ended up bitting you in the ass and the only reason I did help them was that my sister was one. I plan to play as a mage in my next playthrough and I plan to help the Templars because I will make Carver a Templar...

Blood tends to be a strong reason to do stuff IMO, the other things are just accidental stuff that happens to other people I can't care about...Templars had their position justifyed in every single Tevinter guy I've met so far.

That Anders decided to defend the "mage's cause" with an abhorrent act of Terrorism just cement my conviction that Templars are necessary and mages are unreliable when helped, dangerous to people when left unchecked and unstable.

Let the Empire of Law fall over their heads unless my sis is one of them :P

#31
AlexXIV

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KJandrew wrote...


tevikolady wrote...
You Quentin, that bastard who killed your mother, for using Blood Magic.

I thought i killed Quentin for killing my mum, rather than for using blood magic

I thought I killed him because he attacked me.

#32
Bayz

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I killed him with my Blood Mage because he used Blood Magic. Demonist bastard using evil magic pffff

#33
Ryzaki

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I went from pro-mage to pro-templar. 

That said there were plenty of "bad" templars to balance out the "bad" mages. Enough so that if I really had any choice I'd nuke all of them to hell. As it is I find the templars a bit less dangerous and annoying so I'll stay with the status quo. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2011 - 12:39 .


#34
EmperorSahlertz

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KJandrew wrote...


tevikolady wrote...
You Quentin, that bastard who killed your mother, for using Blood Magic.

I thought i killed Quentin for killing my mum, rather than for using blood magic

Nah... Hawke doesn't like his mom because he is a cool emo-kid.....

#35
Bayz

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How do you relate "cool" and "emo-kid" in the same phrase?

Teach me master!

#36
tevikolady

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Love your avatar Bayz. Hats off to the Witch Hunter!

#37
Bayz

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tevikolady wrote...

Love your avatar Bayz. Hats off to the Witch Hunter!


cheers :blush: unfortunately it is just one from the forum itself, not a personalised one.

That quote actually reminded me the Ork ending cinematic from Dawn of War 2 Retribution...:lol:

#38
GodWood

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Ryzaki wrote...
so that if I really had any choice I'd nuke all of them to hell. 

This.

Overall I support the templars but in the case of Kirkwall everyone needed to die.

Modifié par GodWood, 02 novembre 2011 - 09:53 .


#39
Bayz

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Yeah. Would have gone with Leliana and joined the Exalted March gleefully just because. Then again the Templars offer you Kirkwall which on the other hand of things I do believe it would be more of a curse with the crap it tends to attract than a blessing...