Thinking more about this, probably the title's missleading, but then again, there's so much mistery shrouding the Rachni that who knows...
This question's been puzzling me for some time.
There's probably two possibilities : either
A.the Rachni appeared after the Prothean extinction (yet they're called "ancient" ) and its problem solved, or
B. they're as old as the Protheans.
If its A. and the Reapers indoctrinated their queens, why waste time and resources on starting a useless (in the long term) war. They could've used them as backup for the Collectors and kept them hidden until it was time to "reap" once again.
Unless their real objective was to wipe the Rachni out. And why not cause some damage while doing it ?
Ok, but why did the Reapers want the Rachni extinct so badly ? Workers accidentaly discovering a Reaper artifact wouldn't work because they're a hive mind; the queen itself would have to be indoctrinated.
But lets say that, supposedly some workers do get indoctrinated. Others would feel the souring of their song and probably attack on site. Also, what are the chances that ALL Rachni queens accidentaly hit over a Reaper artifact ?
Maybe its because, by chance, they've adapted to survive the Reapers "farming techniques" ?
1.They're isolationist by nature, so they won't use the Mass Relays en masse, they won't discover the Citadel and they won't spread across the Galaxy acording to Reaper plans.
2. Avoiding contact with other species at all costs means that no one will actually know about them. No data on the Citadel or on FTL comm channels means that the Reapers too won't know about them and so they will survive the extinction cycle.
And finally, since queens inherit their mother's knowledge, if you don't wipe ALL queens and ALL eggs, someone, somewhere, someday will wake up, remember what happened and alert everyone else. (The Rachni queen confirming Shepard's fears on Ilium).
There's another problem with indoctrination too : if they were influenced by the Reapers, why did they need Benezia to extract the Mu Relay coordonates in the first place ? They could've taken the info straight from the queens minds.
Now, if we're in case B and considering previous points 1 and 2, its quite obvious that such a slip had to be quickly and desperately corrected by Sovereign, because who knows what knowledge the Rachni managed to get a hold on ? Conveniently, provoking them to go to war with the Council races was the perfect way to kill them without going all-Harbinger style (ie. "direct intervention is neccessary").
Maybe my assumptions are right, or I'm missing something. Either way, there's something very interesting going on about the Rachni and I'd like to hear your thoughts too on the subject.
I'm eager to hear your ideas, comparisons, comments and criticism !
How did the Rachni actually survive the Reapers ?
Débuté par
Guest_BogdanV_*
, nov. 01 2011 05:48
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#2
Posté 01 novembre 2011 - 11:49
Jafroboy
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Because soverign wanted to use the rachni as he used the geth, to get to the citadel and open it for the other reapers.
#3
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 02:46
Bogsnot1
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They survived the previous "culling" by being pre-spaceflight, teh same way humans, asari, hkrogan etc did.
As for how they attracted the attention of the Reapers, perhaps they activated a mass relay and drew attention to themselves that way.
As for how they attracted the attention of the Reapers, perhaps they activated a mass relay and drew attention to themselves that way.
#4
Guest_BogdanV_*
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 01:59
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Jafroboy wrote...
Because soverign wanted to use the rachni as he used the geth, to get to the citadel and open it for the other reapers.
If that were the case, he would've known about the Mu Relay already and the entire Noveria mission would've been useless.
Also, Sovereign wasn't that dumb to start an all-out war with the Council races, using the Rachni as proxies. The Rachni extinction is proof enough.
Bogsnot1 wrote...
They survived the previous "culling" by being pre-spaceflight, teh same way humans, asari, hkrogan etc did.
As
for how they attracted the attention of the Reapers, perhaps they
activated a mass relay and drew attention to themselves that
way.
But is it certain that they're <50,000 years old ? Also, activating mass relays is what the Reapers actually want organics to do. They want you to use their technology, to develop along the path they desire.
Modifié par BogdanV, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:03 .
#5
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 02:15
Bogsnot1
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If they were a 50k+ spaceflight race, they would have been modified to the same extent the prothean were modified to become collectors. If they had been, we would have found out either during the rachni wars, or from Binary Helix's operation on Noveria, as the nanotech that was inside the collector would have also been present inside the modified rachni.
The only logical conclusion we can make, based on available evidence, is that they missed the previous culling by being pre-spaceflight, the same way all the other council races avoided the previous Reaper culling.
The only logical conclusion we can make, based on available evidence, is that they missed the previous culling by being pre-spaceflight, the same way all the other council races avoided the previous Reaper culling.
#6
Guest_BogdanV_*
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 02:54
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..or they simply kept themselves away from any sapient race. Afterall they're isolationist and they seek to block any relay that leads to their territory.
Maybe the Protheans didn't even knew about them, and with no existing data on the Citadel, the Reapers didn't seek the Rachni out (Vigil does say that the Reapers knew where to go because of all data on the Citadel).
Also, by talking to Vigil and through other evidence, it would seem that 50k years ago there was officially only one sapient race that held control over the Galaxy : the Protheans with their Empire.
Any sources talking about that period mention the Protheans exclusively. So either the Rachni were very ellusive (as per their nature) or they didn't exist.
But if they didn't exist then... why all the fuss about killing them before the others ? They probably were the first race to survive the Reapers by going dark and that was a major breach in their plans.
Maybe the Protheans didn't even knew about them, and with no existing data on the Citadel, the Reapers didn't seek the Rachni out (Vigil does say that the Reapers knew where to go because of all data on the Citadel).
Also, by talking to Vigil and through other evidence, it would seem that 50k years ago there was officially only one sapient race that held control over the Galaxy : the Protheans with their Empire.
Any sources talking about that period mention the Protheans exclusively. So either the Rachni were very ellusive (as per their nature) or they didn't exist.
But if they didn't exist then... why all the fuss about killing them before the others ? They probably were the first race to survive the Reapers by going dark and that was a major breach in their plans.
Modifié par BogdanV, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:56 .
#7
Guest_Paars_*
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 05:22
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BogdanV wrote...
..or they simply kept themselves away from any sapient race. .
How is that simple? It's seems a lot simpler to me to just assume they weren't capable of space flight.
#8
Guest_BogdanV_*
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 06:36
Guest_BogdanV_*
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Paars wrote...
BogdanV wrote...
..or they simply kept themselves away from any sapient race. .
How is that simple? It's seems a lot simpler to me to just assume they weren't capable of space flight.
My bad. It was a figure of speech. Well, like I said, being a species that wants to avoid contact with others and even blocks relays going towards them, I'd say they tried everything to keep others away, even if it meant killing anything that passed through their relays.
Unable to know exactly whats on the other side, the Protheans would simply stop surveys there and forbid access (like the Council did with Omega-4).
Even if they were pre-spaceflight then, why would Sovereign indoctrinate and pitch them against other races ?
Judging by the outcome, whatever Sovereign tried to acomplish apparently failed miserably.
#9
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 11:04
Jafroboy
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I dont know why your inventing loads of complicated stuff, its pretty simple:
The Rachni were pre spaceflight/not evolved when the protheans were about.
Sov indoctrinated some/all queens and tried to use them as he did the geth.
As with the Geth, he failed.
As for the Mu relay, probably he never asked, because he hadnt found out about the conduit at that point. As he only learnt it from the prothean beacon.
I dont understand why this basic generally accepted idea is so hard for you to accept, why do you keep adding more complicated hypothesis with no evidence?
The Rachni were pre spaceflight/not evolved when the protheans were about.
Sov indoctrinated some/all queens and tried to use them as he did the geth.
As with the Geth, he failed.
As for the Mu relay, probably he never asked, because he hadnt found out about the conduit at that point. As he only learnt it from the prothean beacon.
I dont understand why this basic generally accepted idea is so hard for you to accept, why do you keep adding more complicated hypothesis with no evidence?
#10
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 11:09
BentOrgy
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No doubt, it reeks of what KevShep/Zulu were trying to do with their theories. ME's plot is pretty simple, due in no small part I'm sure to the fact that its a trilogy, and supposed to cater to several groups at once. Not just the neckbeards (Or otaku like me.) that really dig bizarre/complicated stories.
#11
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 11:12
Jafroboy
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*In rear amiral mikhalovitch's voice*
"Kevshep, zulu? Otaku?!"
Your words are... strange to me.
"Kevshep, zulu? Otaku?!"
Your words are... strange to me.
#12
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 11:22
BentOrgy
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Oh my. X3
Well Kev and Zulu were/are users here that generally cause a lot of headaches because they tried to make ME's plot waaaaay more complicated than it probably is. Zulu with his "Vigil lied to us!" Theory, and Kev with his inane ramblings about how to fight the reapers and such.
And are you being silly, or do you not know what an otaku is?
Well Kev and Zulu were/are users here that generally cause a lot of headaches because they tried to make ME's plot waaaaay more complicated than it probably is. Zulu with his "Vigil lied to us!" Theory, and Kev with his inane ramblings about how to fight the reapers and such.
And are you being silly, or do you not know what an otaku is?
#14
Posté 03 novembre 2011 - 01:36
BentOrgy
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Chigau, lol. (Nah.)
Otaku (Literally meaning fanatic.) is a term we use in Japan to describe people that are really hardcore about games, anime, manga, etc. Although the term extends to other areas as well, like "Kaa Otaku," which is a Car Fanatic. Or a "Yoroi otaku," Which is a armor fanatic.
Lol, your Japanese lesson for the day.
Otaku (Literally meaning fanatic.) is a term we use in Japan to describe people that are really hardcore about games, anime, manga, etc. Although the term extends to other areas as well, like "Kaa Otaku," which is a Car Fanatic. Or a "Yoroi otaku," Which is a armor fanatic.
Lol, your Japanese lesson for the day.
#15
Guest_BogdanV_*
Posté 03 novembre 2011 - 01:45
Guest_BogdanV_*
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Ok, I admit being "fresh off the boat" ; you guys just lost me on the last posts 
Sorry if I looked like a conspiracy freak, overcomplicating things is a habit (flaw ?) of mine.
Heh.. should've thought about Occam's Razor before posting.
Also, who are these members you're talking about ? This place is so large I find it hard to even remember people !
Sorry if I looked like a conspiracy freak, overcomplicating things is a habit (flaw ?) of mine.
Heh.. should've thought about Occam's Razor before posting.
Also, who are these members you're talking about ? This place is so large I find it hard to even remember people !
Modifié par BogdanV, 03 novembre 2011 - 01:47 .
#16
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 11:37
Rifneno
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BogdanV wrote...
If its A. and the Reapers indoctrinated their queens, why waste time and resources on starting a useless (in the long term) war. They could've used them as backup for the Collectors and kept them hidden until it was time to "reap" once again.
Ahh. As much as I love a good theory, I think it's simpler and not relevant to the future... the reapers, arrogant as they are, are excellent tactians. It's probably standard fare for their vanguard to start a big war between galactic civilizations whenever possible before the reapers invade. Then everyone will be weakened and in chaos, making for easier prey. Remember Sum of All Fears, where the bad guys used a nuke on Boston and framed the Russians for it? Same idea here... get your enemies to fight each other, then pick off the winner.
Now if we assume that was the reason for Sovereign causing the Rachni Wars, then Sovereign wouldn't even have known yet that the protheans modified the keepers. It was probably during the late stages of the Rachni War or soon after its end that he signaled for the keepers to open the Citadel Relay and realized something was wrong. Remember, the Rachni Wars took place over 2,000 years before the events of Mass Effect 1 & 2.
(The Rachni queen confirming Shepard's fears on Ilium).
I don't know about your Shepard, but mine's fears were allayed on Illium.
The the reapers were responsible for the ancient rachni's aggression means that they're not likely to repeat those actions. And as a wonderful cherry on top, when the reapers come knocking he's got a zerg army of giant murderipedes.Bogsnot1 wrote...
If they were a 50k+ spaceflight race, they would have been modified to the same extent the prothean were modified to become collectors. If they had been, we would have found out either during the rachni wars, or from Binary Helix's operation on Noveria, as the nanotech that was inside the collector would have also been present inside the modified rachni.
Actually I highly doubt that. Remember that it wasn't until Shepard found scientific study data aboard a not-so-derelict collector vessel that anyone knew what the collectors were. The rachni have been extinct for 2,000 years. Any actual samples of the ancient rachni are very long gone, and who knows if any major studies were done on them, or what happened to any such data. I don't think the ancient rachni were monsterified like the protheans were, but if they were, it wouldn't be a trivial matter to find out.
Bogsnot1 wrote...
Also, activating mass relays is what the Reapers actually want organics to do. They want you to use their technology, to develop along the path they desire.
The rachni did develop along the paths they desired. They did base their technology around reaper tech since all evidence points to their space travel being pretty much the same as other races. They avoid other species, but that doesn't mean they won't study some ancient artifact they find. That they knew how to repair that asari's ship speaks volumes about the similarity of the paths they evolved along. Also, the derelict rachni ship that Binary Helix found... if the ship wasn't using eezo for FTL, that would have been a major discovery. Much bigger than having a rachni egg.
BentOrgy wrote...
ME's plot is pretty simple, due in no small part I'm sure to the fact that its a trilogy, and supposed to cater to several groups at once. Not just the neckbeards (Or otaku like me.) that really dig bizarre/complicated stories.
The main plot is of course simple enough for casual fans. It has to be. But the story as a whole is not simple. The details they go into in the codexes, planetary descriptions, Cerberus daily news, ect. is incredible.
BentOrgy wrote...
Oh my. X3
Well Kev and Zulu were/are users here that generally cause a lot of headaches because they tried to make ME's plot waaaaay more complicated than it probably is. Zulu with his "Vigil lied to us!" Theory, and Kev with his inane ramblings about how to fight the reapers and such.
Note to self: The anonymous death threats that start coming in a few months might be from BentOrgy.
