223 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

Ofcoursenot wrote...

 Ah, yes, Character Development.
Most of the time, it's a thing of beauty that many games fail to even bother with.
In the case of ME2, it was a force of unbelievable cruelty, at least to me.

Look at it. Wrex, our Krogan buddy who fought at our side and seemed to enjoy life as a merc, turned into a big fuzzy huggable leader of his clan, even after seeming to lose faith in his race. How wonderfully perfect. Tali, the innocent Quarian who was like Shep's little sister, turned into a raving anti-geth quarian isolationist warhawk. Garrus, our favorite ex-cop techie who wanted to explore a life on the edge, now a moping, vengeful, ultraviolent vigilante. The VS, a good friend who suddenly wishes hell on Shepard and, in Ashely's case, goes uber-hypocritical by calling Cerberus racist, even after her words in ME1 that ought to have gotten Wrex to turn and throw a massive warp-field her way.
Then there's Liara. An archaeologist and shy, sensitive, socially akward friend who turns into the GODDAMN SHADOW BROKER.
Maybe it's just me, but things have gone a bit to far.

So, my request? Don't go so crazy on our squaddies for ME3...

That's the kicker with wrex. He seemed to enjoy life as a merc when he really wasn't. Wrex was enjoying the freedom, the simple pleasures and credits that came with the life. However before all that wrex was a man trying to unite his people, trying to save the krogan from their own destruction. The failure (and betrayal by his father) afterward is what made him the broody badass krogan we saw in ME1. His moments of mirth were mainly his happy recollections of the past while reliving old glory.

Now? Thanks to shep, wrex found new conviction and strength to once again to try and save his people and look toward the future, but that doesn't mean he is suddenly a teddy bear. Now with a millenia of experience behind him, and a new notch of power under his belt, wrex is in a much better position this time. He now knows how to control his people the smart way without falling for the traps of the old ways. He now mixes old rituals with new progress. He kicks ass, but not in a way that jeapordizes his goals (which he has always had since before ME1!)

Calling wrex a big teddy bear is to reveal the fact that you have missed and ignored all of his stories, and in any case the one moment when he becomes that fluffy stuffed animal you speak of passes quickly, as soon as the handshake end, wrex once again becomes the crouching predater ready to headbutt those who speak against him.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 novembre 2011 - 04:04 .

[Asari_Party]

Cpt-Brit wrote...

CptData wrote... The VS will play a big role. And if my prediction is correct, the VS will be second in command this time - taking Miranda's place.
I like Miranda but I love Ashley so I have no problem with that.

I really REALLY hope that it isn't as clear cut as this... If I have to choose between a Soldier/Poet and Ruthless yet Sexy Biotic... Buh Bye Ashley, You had your chance on Horizen...

If I can have both of course i'll be happy

I really want Miranda to be my XO again. I doubt the VS would be capable of that role.

[Nashiktal]

Roxy12 wrote...

Cpt-Brit wrote...

CptData wrote... The VS will play a big role. And if my prediction is correct, the VS will be second in command this time - taking Miranda's place.
I like Miranda but I love Ashley so I have no problem with that.

I really REALLY hope that it isn't as clear cut as this... If I have to choose between a Soldier/Poet and Ruthless yet Sexy Biotic... Buh Bye Ashley, You had your chance on Horizen...

If I can have both of course i'll be happy

I really want Miranda to be my XO again. I doubt the VS would be capable of that role.

I'd rather give that position to Garrus. At least he is visually competent. Miranda doesn't end up looking competent until after you choose her to do a job. She is all talk with no proof. (until after the fact of course)

Not saying miranda isn't competent, but for an XO trying to help with the suicide missions she does a good job of destabilizing the crew.

[Il Divo]

Nashiktal wrote...

Roxy12 wrote...

Cpt-Brit wrote...

CptData wrote... The VS will play a big role. And if my prediction is correct, the VS will be second in command this time - taking Miranda's place.
I like Miranda but I love Ashley so I have no problem with that.

I really REALLY hope that it isn't as clear cut as this... If I have to choose between a Soldier/Poet and Ruthless yet Sexy Biotic... Buh Bye Ashley, You had your chance on Horizen...

If I can have both of course i'll be happy

I really want Miranda to be my XO again. I doubt the VS would be capable of that role.

I'd rather give that position to Garrus. At least he is visually competent. Miranda doesn't end up looking competent until after you choose her to do a job. She is all talk with no proof. (until after the fact of course)

Not saying miranda isn't competent, but for an XO trying to help with the suicide missions she does a good job of destabilizing the crew.

Seconded on Garrus. He's always been the guy who's been with me every step of the way. Who better to serve in that role?

[Asari_Party]

Nashiktal wrote...


I'd rather give that position to Garrus. At least he is visually competent. Miranda doesn't end up looking competent until after you choose her to do a job. She is all talk with no proof. (until after the fact of course)

Not saying miranda isn't competent, but for an XO trying to help with the suicide missions she does a good job of destabilizing the crew.

Jack and Miranda don't get along, that's true. But the rest of the crew seemed to respect her (there are some crew banters about her).

My Shepard would never let Garrus lead a team after all the crap he's pulled in the past

[BatmanPWNS]

I am sure fans know more about character development than the professional's who actually made the character.

/sarcasm.

[hotdogbsg]

Roxy12 wrote...

I really want Miranda to be my XO again. I doubt the VS would be capable of that role.

If I had a choice between Miranda and either of the Virmire Survivors, I'd have Alenko as the XO.  I don't think Miranda's personality is quite right to be the ideal choice as the ships XO.

Also, potentially overconfident, in particular when she puts herself foward as the biotic specialist in the SM.

That being said, I'd probably choose her as XO over Ashley.

Modifié par hotdogbsg, 02 novembre 2011 - 04:31 .

[sh4manz]

Il Divo wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Roxy12 wrote...

Cpt-Brit wrote...

CptData wrote... The VS will play a big role. And if my prediction is correct, the VS will be second in command this time - taking Miranda's place.
I like Miranda but I love Ashley so I have no problem with that.

I really REALLY hope that it isn't as clear cut as this... If I have to choose between a Soldier/Poet and Ruthless yet Sexy Biotic... Buh Bye Ashley, You had your chance on Horizen...

If I can have both of course i'll be happy

I really want Miranda to be my XO again. I doubt the VS would be capable of that role.

I'd rather give that position to Garrus. At least he is visually competent. Miranda doesn't end up looking competent until after you choose her to do a job. She is all talk with no proof. (until after the fact of course)

Not saying miranda isn't competent, but for an XO trying to help with the suicide missions she does a good job of destabilizing the crew.

Seconded on Garrus. He's always been the guy who's been with me every step of the way. Who better to serve in that role?

Wrex would make an awesome XO, considering he used to lead Krogan before being backstabbed when you first met him, and now he'll be a full fledged Warlord. Who doesn't want a battle hardened Krogan shouting orders at them in Sheppards stead?

But yes, Garrus would make a wonderful XO, especially considering the thoroughly illogical ramblings the VS shouts at you on Horrizon. ("Is that what you think? Or is it what Cerberus wants you to think?" Yeaaaah. Eat a gun, VS, eat a gun.)


To the OP:

You're an idiot. Wrex stayed the same.He's always said the Krogan need their **** in line, and now he's dragging them where he wants them.

Garrus' character development is entirely plausible and thoroughly warranted. He tried to recreate a kick-ass, crime killing squad and managed to get them all murdered, hence his depression and drive for vengeance. Think about it. He has now lost two squads of people important to him (the first one just fell apart after the SR-1 blew to pieces), and is blaming himself entirely for the second one. It's good story writing, and if you don't agree with me, then I'll throw ten internets at you because there's not much I can do to change your mind.

Tali's character development was amazing. Of course she was naive and little-sister-esque in the first game. It was her first time outside of the Fleet and on her own. Almost like a first job for you and I . She became much more jaded, and openly hostile towards the Geth (she has always hated them, mind you) due to watching galactic civilization almost get annihilated by the Geth when they worked in concert with the Reapers. She went from looking for a nice ship to exist on, to being dragged through warzone after warzone after warzone with Sheppard. She grew the f*ck up. Two years passed from the Normandy SR-1 disassembly via Collector laser beams. That's a long time to stew on all the violence she's seen and been party to, not to mention Cerberus attacked the fleet in that time, AND she's been sent on numerous other missions (heck, you meet her on Freedoms progress fighting through Mechs and watching more of her people getting killed, despite the fact the the other Quarrians were stupid).  Her story is actually wonderful.

Liara's personality switch seemed forced and a half though. Do not like, even though I understand what and why she changed. Ten c*nt points to her for turning into a raving lunatic with little to no concern for anything except her retarded revenge on the Shadow Broker (Remember, she doesn't even give a damn that Shepp could've broken his/her neck while tackling nutjob spectre through a window. Sheppard wasn't moving at all, and Liara just runs by going thinking "Oh, he'll get right back up, no problem! He wasn't just blown into the ground or anything").

PS: I hope Legion comes back.

[Labrev]

GMagnum wrote...

ppl jus dont like jacob cuz hes black

Nah. If Jacob were white, then you'd lose all the people that like him because he's fits the cultural stereotype of the nice black dude being your black brotha (for all those players that don't actually see his highly inconsistent and unimpressive overall character).

Token-black helps masks his bad character. A little.

[Gunderic]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

"I'm no fan of aliens"

Ambiguous. Aliens in Mass Effect are nations, foreign governments. She's certainly never shown any kind of bias against individual alien people.

That would render the word 'xenophobic' obsolete or 'ambiguous' for use when applied in context with any ethnicity that functions under a government.

Modifié par Gunderic, 02 novembre 2011 - 05:58 .

[Gunderic]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Ashley isn't xenophobic.

I'm not sure why this needs to be repeated so frequently.

She is xenophobic, just to a relatively mild extent.

Suspicion of foreign governments does not make one xenophobic.

And, um, yeah... Kim Jong OK.

[Labrev]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

What did sparing Dr. Saleon do to Garrus? Nothing.
What about letting Garrus kill Dr. Saleon? Did that change something for ME2? No, not at all.
Shepard was Garrus' mentor throughout ME1. Did anything, and I mean anything you said and taught him, made a change in ME2? Nope, it was all absolutely pointless.
Or how about never recruiting Garrus in ME1, did THAT change anything? Er... no, not really. Garrus still shows up in ME2, he's the exact same guy, he's Shepard's buddy and he still talks about "old times". *sigh*

What about Wrex's family armor which you found in ME1? Did that made anything different for ME2? No, it didn't.
You don't need to be friends with Wrex. You don't even need to talk to him, but you still get the same "My friend." reunion in ME2. I always wondered what happens with Wrex if you decide to never recruit him.

What about Tali? Was she always in love with Shepard? Yes, of course she was. Even if you were a total renegade jerk towards her, even if you never wanted her on the Normandy, even if you blamed the quarians for what happened with the geth and even if you never gave her the data for the pilgrimage? Yup.

What about the VS and the Horizon reunion? Both Ashley and Kaidan had very similar dialogues too. Why were the writers so lazy?

What about Liara and her horrible character "development"? I can’t believe how many people buy it and say that it makes sense.
They also argue that you need to read the comic in order to understand her change. Well, that's pretty much bulls@#t. Yes, I read the comic and it was awful. In fact, I'd find her change easier to accept if I didn't read it.

Ah yes, “character development”.

It will be interesting to see how everyone turns out in ME3, especially because some of their original writers left Bioware.

Garrus: if Saleon attempted for arrest, goes to C-Sec again. If Saleon killed, applies for Spectre reinstatement,

Unrecruited Wrex does not return to Tuchanka, he finds no cause that the mission with Shepard would have given him. You don't have to be Wrex's friend for him to consider you his friend either.

The fact that so many don't get why Tali is attracted to a jerk Shepard makes me routinely question the kind of experience people on this site actually have of women. Women love jerks and are turned on by men who treat them like crap. Even ME2 knows this, Kelly herself while dismissing it as a dirty-stereotype admits she's guilty of it. Reality - that's the case women 9 times out of 10. That Tali developed a crush on a successful man like Shepard, a galactic hero with incredible natural leadership ability, is not suprising in the least regardless how you treated her.

The VS had practically the same dialogue but, so what? It could've been done in a better way (better, as in, with Shepard doing more to get in touch with them/defend themselves) but in the end, Shepard does not know what you know. That their dialogue is almost identical is irrelevant - Shepard only hears one of them. What is releveant is that in that situation where Shepard is out of the VS's life for that long and is revealed to be working for Cerberus, both reacted in the way one would expect they would in that situation - upset and feeling betrayed. They thought Shepard was a better friend (or more, if romanced) than that.

Liara had life-changing experiences as a socially-awkward archeogologist who learned the reality of her mother turning back on her and teaming up with Saren, and being part of the team that saved the galaxy. What's so hard to imagine about her experiencing a character-change? I'll agree she looked silly in her "ruthless" role but it's far from contrived.

Character development is fine, whether or not people can understand the perfectly rational reason for character changes.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

"I'm no fan of aliens"

Ambiguous. Aliens in Mass Effect are nations, foreign governments. She's certainly never shown any kind of bias against individual alien people.

Well, there was the line about Saren "kiss[ing] is turian ass goodbye." Also something with Liara, apparently, though it seems to be romance-exclusive and because I don't play Maleshep, I've never heard it.

The fact that so many don't get why Tali is attracted to a jerk Shepard makes me routinely question the kind of experience people on this site actually have of women. Women love jerks and are turned on by men who treat them like crap. Even ME2 knows this, Kelly herself while dismissing it as a dirty-stereotype admits she's guilty of it. Reality - that's the case women 9 times out of 10. That Tali developed a crush on a successful man like Shepard, a galactic hero with incredible natural leadership ability, is not suprising in the least regardless how you treated her.

Kindly keep the idiotic generalizations off the BSN, please.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 02 novembre 2011 - 06:35 .

[Labrev]

Xilizhra wrote...

The fact that so many don't get why Tali is attracted to a jerk Shepard makes me routinely question the kind of experience people on this site actually have of women. Women love jerks and are turned on by men who treat them like crap. Even ME2 knows this, Kelly herself while dismissing it as a dirty-stereotype admits she's guilty of it. Reality - that's the case women 9 times out of 10. That Tali developed a crush on a successful man like Shepard, a galactic hero with incredible natural leadership ability, is not suprising in the least regardless how you treated her.

Kindly keep the idiotic generalizations off the BSN, please.

And this is how every woman responds to that, but it doesn't change the reality.

Aren't you not even attracted to men anyway? Even if you are, you fall in that 10th percentile.


Trust me, as a natural non-jerk myself I've seen enough of this first-hand enough to not be fooled by the lie that "women liking bad boys is a stereotype." The girls that insist it fall for the brash idiots around them just as fast.

[Xilizhra]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The fact that so many don't get why Tali is attracted to a jerk Shepard makes me routinely question the kind of experience people on this site actually have of women. Women love jerks and are turned on by men who treat them like crap. Even ME2 knows this, Kelly herself while dismissing it as a dirty-stereotype admits she's guilty of it. Reality - that's the case women 9 times out of 10. That Tali developed a crush on a successful man like Shepard, a galactic hero with incredible natural leadership ability, is not suprising in the least regardless how you treated her.

Kindly keep the idiotic generalizations off the BSN, please.

And this is how every woman responds to that, but it doesn't change the reality.

Aren't you not even attracted to men anyway? Even if you are, you fall in that 10th percentile.


Trust me, as a natural non-jerk myself I've seen enough of this first-hand enough to not be fooled by the lie that "women liking bad boys is a stereotype." The girls that insist it fall for the brash idiots around them just as fast.

Fascinating. So have you done a scientific study on this that would establish that 90% of all women are attracted primarily to "jerks?"

[Ieldra]

Ofcoursenot wrote...
Ah, yes, Character Development.
Most of the time, it's a thing of beauty that many games fail to even bother with.
In the case of ME2, it was a force of unbelievable cruelty, at least to me.

Look at it. Wrex, our Krogan buddy who fought at our side and seemed to enjoy life as a merc, turned into a big fuzzy huggable leader of his clan, even after seeming to lose faith in his race. How wonderfully perfect. Tali, the innocent Quarian who was like Shep's little sister, turned into a raving anti-geth quarian isolationist warhawk. Garrus, our favorite ex-cop techie who wanted to explore a life on the edge, now a moping, vengeful, ultraviolent vigilante. The VS, a good friend who suddenly wishes hell on Shepard and, in Ashely's case, goes uber-hypocritical by calling Cerberus racist, even after her words in ME1 that ought to have gotten Wrex to turn and throw a massive warp-field her way.
Then there's Liara. An archaeologist and shy, sensitive, socially akward friend who turns into the GODDAMN SHADOW BROKER.
Maybe it's just me, but things have gone a bit to far.

So, my request? Don't go so crazy on our squaddies for ME3...

Subscribed.

Seeing Miranda turn into a sentimental twit at the Collector base and starting to talk about keeping it felt like a betrayal was *the* disappointment of ME2. Character development is all good and well, but no more character assassinations please. 

No problems with Wrex and Tali though. Only Ashley as a Spectre? Don't make me laugh. And while I like the new Liara the change is definitely too big to be believable.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:24 .

[jlb524]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Trust me, as a natural non-jerk myself I've seen enough of this first-hand enough to not be fooled by the lie that "women liking bad boys is a stereotype." The girls that insist it fall for the brash idiots around them just as fast.

Regardless, the point still stands that Shepard's treatment of Tali in ME1 has no affect on her feelings for him come ME2 with the romance.  If she's in this "90 percent" of women who like jerks, then why would she go for boring, nice-guy Shepard?

[Chloe_W1971]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...


And this is how every woman responds to that, but it doesn't change the reality.

Aren't you not even attracted to men anyway? Even if you are, you fall in that 10th percentile.


Trust me, as a natural non-jerk myself I've seen enough of this first-hand enough to not be fooled by the lie that "women liking bad boys is a stereotype." The girls that insist it fall for the brash idiots around them just as fast.

For a self-described "natural non-jerk" your answer is looking a lot like jerky...

I could just as easily pull some numbers out of my own sphincter and insist that indeed, only 1 percent of all women, everywhere, go for jerks. It would have the same trustworthiness your example has.

[mulder1199]

i'd argue with the OP that alot of the changes make sense.....
after the events of ME1 where there was a genophage cure, and you have the option to talk with wrex about saving his people, he puts his efforts into that

tali shows you right from the start that she could take care of herself, she's 2 years older, and has more responsiblity for her people

the VS is an alliance loyalist, who more than likely saw the bad cerberus did in ME1 with you, tough to swallow after 2 years of nothing, felt like betrayal.....

Liara lost her mother, and a close friend that she saved the galaxy with in ME1....she saw there's more to life than research and labs...plus read redemption....she's driven to get shep, then feron back.....

garrus doesn't really change, he tells you right off when you pick him up in ME1 that he's excited to go after saren without CSEC's regs to get in the way....he's a stop evil by any means through and through....

[ADLegend21]

Ofcoursenot wrote...

 Ah, yes, Character Development.
Most of the time, it's a thing of beauty that many games fail to even bother with.
In the case of ME2, it was a force of unbelievable cruelty, at least to me.

Look at it. Wrex, our Krogan buddy who fought at our side and seemed to enjoy life as a merc, turned into a big fuzzy huggable leader of his clan, even after seeming to lose faith in his race. How wonderfully perfect. Tali, the innocent Quarian who was like Shep's little sister, turned into a raving anti-geth quarian isolationist warhawk. Garrus, our favorite ex-cop techie who wanted to explore a life on the edge, now a moping, vengeful, ultraviolent vigilante. The VS, a good friend who suddenly wishes hell on Shepard and, in Ashely's case, goes uber-hypocritical by calling Cerberus racist, even after her words in ME1 that ought to have gotten Wrex to turn and throw a massive warp-field her way.
Then there's Liara. An archaeologist and shy, sensitive, socially akward friend who turns into the GODDAMN SHADOW BROKER.
Maybe it's just me, but things have gone a bit to far.

So, my request? Don't go so crazy on our squaddies for ME3...

this is the funniest OP I've seen in a while