223 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

Edit: Missread, or something

That's what I get for posting on forums and doing homework at the same time. 

Modifié par SandTrout, 02 novembre 2011 - 08:35 .

[darthnick427]

Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and Liara's character development all made sense to me for their characters. Well Liara didn't at first, but then I found out about all the trails she went through to get Shepard's body back. So then she made sense. The VS made sense as far as not trusting Cerberus but that doesn't mean they weren't dumb asses for calling you a traitor.

[SandTrout]

jreezy wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

jreezy wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

this is the funniest OP I've seen in a while

Because of how off it is right?

Considering that the OP doesn't even have his facts straight, I'm going to guess 'no'.

So the OP is off, but then he isn't? I'm confused.

I think he's probably the confused one.

Ah, Ok. I was worried for a second.

In this case, yes. For some reason I read "Because of how right it is?"

My mistake.

[CptData]

Roxy12 wrote...

Cpt-Brit wrote...

CptData wrote... The VS will play a big role. And if my prediction is correct, the VS will be second in command this time - taking Miranda's place.
I like Miranda but I love Ashley so I have no problem with that.

I really REALLY hope that it isn't as clear cut as this... If I have to choose between a Soldier/Poet and Ruthless yet Sexy Biotic... Buh Bye Ashley, You had your chance on Horizen...

If I can have both of course i'll be happy

I really want Miranda to be my XO again. I doubt the VS would be capable of that role.

Why not? I mean Kaidan is a Lieutenant in ME already, so he should have at least some commanding experience in ME2. I can see him as a good second in command. Since he's a Spectre AND Alliance officer he's the perfect choice for your XO.
Same for Ashley. She's a bit lower in rank but already Lieutenant and Spectre in ME3. Maybe she's more kind of a soldier she still comes with some experience in leading people. If Ash is alive, Kaidan is dead, she's the most obvious option for becoming next XO of Shepard. 

Besides that (for both, Ashley is confirmed): they're commanding the Normandy when picking up Shepard (ME3).


Miranda? She's no officer and a former Cerberus member. I dunno if Alliance allows ex-Cerberus members to be part of the Normandy's crew. And if so, Miranda has no rank in the military. I believe the Alliance wants to ensure the Normandy is under Alliance/Spectre control, it's doubtful they'll allow Miranda being XO in ME3.

[Ieldra]

CptData wrote...
Miranda? She's no officer and a former Cerberus member. I dunno if Alliance allows ex-Cerberus members to be part of the Normandy's crew. And if so, Miranda has no rank in the military. I believe the Alliance wants to ensure the Normandy is under Alliance/Spectre control, it's doubtful they'll allow Miranda being XO in ME3.

They may want to ensure that, but I'll throw a wrench in their plans if I can. I want my Lazarus cell back! They've proven themselves thrice over in ME2. Miranda has no military rank but she's proven her competence as well. I'm not sure she woudn't be wasted as the XO, but she'd certainly be preferable to Ashley. No command experience there.

And if the Alliance types berate my ME2 crew and team they can walk out the airlock for all I care. Humanity may have my loyalty, but the Alliance has squandered its credit with me.

[mulder1199]

Ieldra2 wrote...

CptData wrote...
Miranda? She's no officer and a former Cerberus member. I dunno if Alliance allows ex-Cerberus members to be part of the Normandy's crew. And if so, Miranda has no rank in the military. I believe the Alliance wants to ensure the Normandy is under Alliance/Spectre control, it's doubtful they'll allow Miranda being XO in ME3.

They may want to ensure that, but I'll throw a wrench in their plans if I can. I want my Lazarus cell back! They've proven themselves thrice over in ME2. Miranda has no military rank but she's proven her competence as well. I'm not sure she woudn't be wasted as the XO, but she'd certainly be preferable to Ashley. No command experience there.

And if the Alliance types berate my ME2 crew and team they can walk out the airlock for all I care. Humanity may have my loyalty, but the Alliance has squandered its credit with me.

i would question a shep that has been supported so little by the council that didn't act in the manner that they saw fit after the events upto and including the trial, much agreed with you.....

[scampermax]

Nyoka wrote...
- Tali hated the geth in ME1. She demonizes them from the start. "They're the enemy. They want to destroy us". Your "little sister" will act all cold and distant if you don't give her data about the geth in ME1, saying she will help with Saren and then leave immediately.

It would have been nice if she'd stayed this way longer in ME2. Instead she's quite clearly a Shepard fangirl by the time you reach Haestrom as evidenced by her journal entries.

Nyoka wrote...
- Garrus has become what he wanted to be. He
kills merc exactly like he killed doctor Saleon in ME1, and exactly how
he wants to kill Saren. The interesting thing about him is that he's
clueless. He wants to be a badass and always has wanted to, but doesn' t
really has it in him. What you see in ME2 is what you would expect if a
guy like ME1 Garrus followed his dream of traveling around punishing
the bad guys without regulations.

So... Conrad Verner, but with better training?

[CptData]

Ieldra2 wrote...

CptData wrote...
Miranda? She's no officer and a former Cerberus member. I dunno if Alliance allows ex-Cerberus members to be part of the Normandy's crew. And if so, Miranda has no rank in the military. I believe the Alliance wants to ensure the Normandy is under Alliance/Spectre control, it's doubtful they'll allow Miranda being XO in ME3.

They may want to ensure that, but I'll throw a wrench in their plans if I can. I want my Lazarus cell back! They've proven themselves thrice over in ME2. Miranda has no military rank but she's proven her competence as well. I'm not sure she woudn't be wasted as the XO, but she'd certainly be preferable to Ashley. No command experience there.

And if the Alliance types berate my ME2 crew and team they can walk out the airlock for all I care. Humanity may have my loyalty, but the Alliance has squandered its credit with me.

Lets say I'm fine if I can chose my XO at some point. As a paragon!Shepard I'll pick Ashley over Miranda, but if I can't do that and Miranda is my XO, I'll accept it. She worked fine in ME2, I won't fear the mission could get jeopardized with her as XO in ME3.
However - if Ashley (or Kaidan) is destined to be my next second in command, I'll be happy.

So doesn't really bother me, since I like both characters (Miri & Ash). Ash is my fav, Miri yours - lets see what BW will decide - or if they let us decide.

[julian08]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Ofcoursenot wrote...

 Ah, yes, Character Development.
Most of the time, it's a thing of beauty that many games fail to even bother with.
In the case of ME2, it was a force of unbelievable cruelty, at least to me.

Okay, can't help myself.  Gotta reply.

Look at it. Wrex, our Krogan buddy who fought at our side and seemed to enjoy life as a merc, turned into a big fuzzy huggable leader of his clan, even after seeming to lose faith in his race. How wonderfully perfect.

Wrex spent half of his time on the SR-1 fussing about how his people needed to get their sh*t together or face extinction.  It was revealed he was the son of a clan leader and had followers in the past, but was attacked and forced out for advocating reform and denouncing tradition.  His actions on Virmire show he does indeed care about his people, despite his bitterness and cynicism.  Working with Shepard showed him how much determination, charisma, and going one's own way matter in a leader, and he learned that there were much bigger things at work in the galaxy, things that were worth more than fighting for credits.

Going back to Tuchanka and attempting to reunite his people is a logical extension of his character development, given what we know about his history and what he experienced in ME1.

Tali, the innocent Quarian who was like Shep's little sister, turned into a raving anti-geth quarian isolationist warhawk.

Tali already hated the geth in ME1, and seeing all the trouble they caused alongside Saren sure didn't help.  When she returned to the fleet, the fact that she helped save the Citadel compounded the pressure already put on her for being Rael'Zorah's daughter.

Hating the geth and frazzled over having way too much expected of her is precisely what one would expect in ME2.

Garrus, our favorite ex-cop techie who wanted to explore a life on the edge, now a moping, vengeful, ultraviolent vigilante.

We already knew from ME1 that Garrus was incredibly combat/tech savvy (enough to be considered for Spectre training), reckless, idealistic, and vengeful (look at Dr. Saleon)--already an Archangel in the making.  He found that life on the edge he was looking for on Omega, and the realities of the criminal underground destroyed him (hence, mopey and ultraviolent).

People get mad for Garrus not following the paragon's advice, but seriously, when was the last time Garrus actually listened to an authority figure, especially when that mentor is killed, and all his good efforts get stonewalled by the pencil-pushers?

The VS, a good friend who suddenly wishes hell on Shepard and, in Ashely's case, goes uber-hypocritical by calling Cerberus racist, even after her words in ME1 that ought to have gotten Wrex to turn and throw a massive warp-field her way.

You... kind of missed the Cerberus sidequests in ME1, I take it.  They were murdering innocents, experimenting with dangerous creatures, and executing members of the Alliance command.

Then there's Liara. An archaeologist and shy, sensitive, socially akward friend who turns into the GODDAMN SHADOW BROKER.

Okay, that character arc was legitimately bizarre.  Kind of made sense at the end of LotSB.  Kind of.

Maybe it's just me, but things have gone a bit to far.

Maybe it's just me, but you probably don't do much literary analysis.

So, my request? Don't go so crazy on our squaddies for ME3...

I liked your other crazy requests better, but I lol'd anyway.

This summes up my points pretty well.
I perfectly understand if the OP doesn't like the way some characters changed between ME and ME2. I didn't like all of them either. But in my opinion, even the changes I wasn't happy with were absolutely plausible (It was a bit of a stretch for Liara, but LotSB made up for that). I could always see why a character changed the way they did.
And let's not forget: It has been more than two years between ME and ME2. People can change quite a bit in two years, even if they don't have to deal with anything drastically live-changing like having friends and loved ones die (a lot), knowing that the Reapers are basically on the galaxy's doorstep and seeing the memory and achievements of their friend/Commander/lover smudged and ridiculed.
But, since ME3 is going to take place almost immediately after Arrival, I don't think the OP has to worry about massive character changes between games this time.

[The Spamming Troll]

julian08 wrote...
I perfectly understand if the OP doesn't like the way some characters changed between ME and ME2. I didn't like all of them either. But in my opinion, even the changes I wasn't happy with were absolutely plausible (It was a bit of a stretch for Liara, but LotSB made up for that). I could always see why a character changed the way they did.
And let's not forget: It has been more than two years between ME and ME2. People can change quite a bit in two years, even if they don't have to deal with anything drastically live-changing like having friends and loved ones die (a lot), knowing that the Reapers are basically on the galaxy's doorstep and seeing the memory and achievements of their friend/Commander/lover smudged and ridiculed.
But, since ME3 is going to take place almost immediately after Arrival, I don't think the OP has to worry about massive character changes between games this time.

liara being the shadow broker would be like a human 12 year old being the shadow broker. i mean i love liara and all, but shes a dumb little kid, not a LORD. but whatever, i dont see her age in the game, prolly just her boobs, which i bet got bigger in ME3 too speaking of changes.

but the thing is, people dont drastically change. kids change. every kid whether its in junior high, high scool, or college, they change. but no one outside of that age group really changes. and im not talking about just going on a diet type change. think about all the adults you currently know, now how many of them have changed, even a little, over the time youve known them? your parents are the same people they are today as they were when you were born. i suppose you could always say "but their buddy shepard died." which is really all bioware really would need to say about it. theyve used enough of the ole hand wave already. ME2 maxxed that meter.

[shep82]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

julian08 wrote...
I perfectly understand if the OP doesn't like the way some characters changed between ME and ME2. I didn't like all of them either. But in my opinion, even the changes I wasn't happy with were absolutely plausible (It was a bit of a stretch for Liara, but LotSB made up for that). I could always see why a character changed the way they did.
And let's not forget: It has been more than two years between ME and ME2. People can change quite a bit in two years, even if they don't have to deal with anything drastically live-changing like having friends and loved ones die (a lot), knowing that the Reapers are basically on the galaxy's doorstep and seeing the memory and achievements of their friend/Commander/lover smudged and ridiculed.
But, since ME3 is going to take place almost immediately after Arrival, I don't think the OP has to worry about massive character changes between games this time.

liara being the shadow broker would be like a human 12 year old being the shadow broker. i mean i love liara and all, but shes a dumb little kid, not a LORD. but whatever, i dont see her age in the game, prolly just her boobs, which i bet got bigger in ME3 too speaking of changes.

but the thing is, people dont drastically change. kids change. every kid whether its in junior high, high scool, or college, they change. but no one outside of that age group really changes. and im not talking about just going on a diet type change. think about all the adults you currently know, now how many of them have changed, even a little, over the time youve known them? your parents are the same people they are today as they were when you were born. i suppose you could always say "but their buddy shepard died." which is really all bioware really would need to say about it. theyve used enough of the ole hand wave already. ME2 maxxed that meter.

I don't agree at all. Life can change people young and old and I liked the development of the characters.

[LilyasAvalon]

One year alone, let alone two can massively change an individual. In my studies as a psychology student, I've seen shy and sweet women turn into utter ****es in less than a span of a year.

Given how the squadmates either saw or heard what happened to Shepard, I thought the character development was completely reasonable.

Losing someone is hard, especially when that someone stood for so much and nobody else seems to be stepping up to fill the role, add on top of that what the Alliance/Council did, which was pretty much call Shepard and his/her case about the Reapers, utter nonsense even after Shepard risked much to save the Citadel and possibly, the council. Such circumstances can very much change someone and the path they choose to take.

On a side note with Liara, has anyone BOTHERED to read Redemption?

[Sgt Stryker]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

liara being the shadow broker would be like a human 12 year old being the shadow broker. i mean i love liara and all, but shes a dumb little kid, not a LORD. but whatever, i dont see her age in the game, prolly just her boobs, which i bet got bigger in ME3 too speaking of changes.

but the thing is, people dont drastically change. kids change. every kid whether its in junior high, high scool, or college, they change. but no one outside of that age group really changes. and im not talking about just going on a diet type change. think about all the adults you currently know, now how many of them have changed, even a little, over the time youve known them? your parents are the same people they are today as they were when you were born. i suppose you could always say "but their buddy shepard died." which is really all bioware really would need to say about it. theyve used enough of the ole hand wave already. ME2 maxxed that meter.

Erm, 12 year old? Last I checked, Liara was an adult. I'd say more like a 20 year old human, at the minimum. Still stretches believability to some extent, but more extraordinary things have happened in the MEverse.

[LilyasAvalon]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

liara being the shadow broker would be like a human 12 year old being the shadow broker. i mean i love liara and all, but shes a dumb little kid, not a LORD. but whatever, i dont see her age in the game, prolly just her boobs, which i bet got bigger in ME3 too speaking of changes.

but the thing is, people dont drastically change.

Want to bet? I'm a psychology student. I've seen and studied 14 year old kids suddenly act like their 60 barely after 6 months after the death of a loved one, especially if they were present when it happened. In the face of trauma, in the face of life changing events, people often change 'drastically'. I think watching your lover/friend/leader get spaced is enough to invoke that.

Age is NOTHING in the face of maturity and sometimes, life forces us to mature quickly.

[shep82]

jreezy wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
liara being the shadow broker would be like a human 12 year old being the shadow broker. i mean i love liara and all, but shes a dumb little kid, not a LORD. but whatever, i dont see her age in the game, prolly just her boobs, which i bet got bigger in ME3 too speaking of changes.

Really? That's the best analogy you could come up with?

His last name is troll what do you expect?

[Nozybidaj]

shep82 wrote...

Ofcoursenot wrote...

It's not a matter of personal preference. It's just that some of these changes are outright ridiculous.

In your opinion not in mine.

Anyone that doesn't think Liara becoming the SB was outright ridiculous is either trolling or being argumentative for the sake of arguing about something.  I can't think of a more outright ridiculous character development (even being gracious I just have to laugh at calling that character development) in any form of media I've seen over my 35 years.  What's next Miranda for Mom of the Year?  Jacob being cool?  Male Shep being gay?  C'mon now.....