1757 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike2640]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Where's my ambiguous main character and my female character customization?

If they really wanted, which it's clear they don't, to get people who play Saints Row to play their game... They would have made this a priority. And this is why, I will never play a GTA game.

Who said they don't play both? I do. I expect different things from both games. If I want silly, over the top insanity gameplay with a fun story, I play Saints Row. If I want a deep, thought provoking narrative while still having excellent sandbox gameplay, I play GTA.

That's why I can safely eat both Apples, and Oranges!

[RPGamer13]

ME_Fan wrote...

@RPGGamer13
You won't play a sandbox game with a defined male character who fits into the story? Right.

Sandbox games can be too big for me.  But the reason I enjoy Saints Row so much is because of the character customization and clothing customization.  Also, the activities are much more fun than those I've heard about in GTA.

Mike2640 wrote...

Who said they don't play both? I do. I expect different things from both games. If I want silly, over the top insanity gameplay with a fun story, I play Saints Row. If I want a deep, thought provoking narrative while still having excellent sandbox gameplay, I play GTA.

That's why I can safely eat both Apples, and Oranges!

Well, I don't feel the same way.  I enjoy a game with customization immensely more than a game with a 100% predefined main character.


I didn't say there weren't people who played both, but I'm sure there are a ton of people that wouldn't play both just as equally as those that do.

But hell, if the main character was a female for once, or you could choose one or the other, I might give a GTA game a try even if it didn't have customization.  I hope you read the rest of my post because I'm not going to say the same things twice.

[Mike2640]

RPGamer13 wrote...

ME_Fan wrote...

@RPGGamer13
You won't play a sandbox game with a defined male character who fits into the story? Right.

Sandbox games can be too big for me.  But the reason I enjoy Saints Row so much is because of the character customization and clothing customization.  Also, the activities are much more fun than those I've heard about in GTA.

Mike2640 wrote...

Who said they don't play both? I do. I expect different things from both games. If I want silly, over the top insanity gameplay with a fun story, I play Saints Row. If I want a deep, thought provoking narrative while still having excellent sandbox gameplay, I play GTA.

That's why I can safely eat both Apples, and Oranges!

Well, I don't feel the same way.  I enjoy a game with customization immensely more than a game with a 100% predefined main character.


I didn't say there weren't people who played both, but I'm sure there are a ton of people that wouldn't play both just as equally as those that do.

But hell, if the main character was a female for once, or you could choose one or the other, I might give a GTA game a try even if it didn't have customization.  I hope you read the rest of my post because I'm not going to say the same things twice.

Fair enough. I really enjoy character customization too, I think i've used the SR3 Initiation Station about a thousand times, but sometimes a narrative about a particular person can be very interesting too. I dont think the story of GTAIV or Red Dead Redemption would have been nearly as tight if John Marston and Nico Bellic werent very defined characters. It's about these men, their lives and the struggles they go through.

[Fredvdp]

Chris Priestly wrote...

It is a graphically pretty looking trailer, but overall I was underwhelmed by it. Still much more interested in Saints Row 3 than GTAV.

I thought the graphics in that trailer look very poor. I remember GTA IV looking better.

[bmwcrazy]

ME_Fan wrote...

I agree, GTA IV was darker, more serious, more realistic (well, in comparison), and more mature than all the predecessors. Plus it had some of the best characters, (Niko Bellic will go down in gaming history). IV was actually a very philosophical game, looking at various issues of American society, like crime, poverty, and illegal immigration. You're 100% right about comparing it to the OTT Saints Row. I personally think GTA IV was the best, and I hope RockStar keep a similar formula.

+1 I enjoyed GTA4 emmensively. It was everything I hoped for.

After spending months playing San Andreas, I was tired of all the seemingly impossible vehicle stunts that I had to pass in order to make the game more livable to play. Some people thought they were fun, but to me, grinding for hours just to "level up" in a GTA game was just completely wrong.

I also hope Rockstar doesn't turn it into another San Andreas. It is perfectly fine to have some funny elements in a serious game, but please, don't over do it and ruin the entire gameplay.

[RPGamer13]

Mike2640 wrote...

Fair enough. I really enjoy character customization too, I think i've used the SR3 Initiation Station about a thousand times, but sometimes a narrative about a particular person can be very interesting too. I dont think the story of GTAIV or Red Dead Redemption would have been nearly as tight if John Marston and Nico Bellic werent very defined characters. It's about these men, their lives and the struggles they go through.

There's that word again, "men".  Why does it always have to be a male character?

I can get more into the story of a well defined female character more than a male one.  Despite being born male myself.  I don't have  the same biases at all that most other "men" do toward women and I don't understand it one bit.

It's just all personal preference.  Before, I was just speaking for myself.

[KenKenpachi]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

Fair enough. I really enjoy character customization too, I think i've used the SR3 Initiation Station about a thousand times, but sometimes a narrative about a particular person can be very interesting too. I dont think the story of GTAIV or Red Dead Redemption would have been nearly as tight if John Marston and Nico Bellic werent very defined characters. It's about these men, their lives and the struggles they go through.

There's that word again, "men".  Why does it always have to be a male character?

I can get more into the story of a well defined female character more than a male one.  Despite being born male myself.  I don't have  the same biases at all that most other "men" do toward women and I don't understand it one bit.

It's just all personal preference.  Before, I was just speaking for myself.

Well first off how many women are in prision for the sort of crimes committed in GTA versus men? A female progatonist in that line of work, would honestly not last long.

[Mike2640]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

Fair enough. I really enjoy character customization too, I think i've used the SR3 Initiation Station about a thousand times, but sometimes a narrative about a particular person can be very interesting too. I dont think the story of GTAIV or Red Dead Redemption would have been nearly as tight if John Marston and Nico Bellic werent very defined characters. It's about these men, their lives and the struggles they go through.

There's that word again, "men".  Why does it always have to be a male character?

I can get more into the story of a well defined female character more than a male one.  Despite being born male myself.  I don't have  the same biases at all that most other "men" do toward women and I don't understand it one bit.

It's just all personal preference.  Before, I was just speaking for myself.

It doesnt? I'm just saying that Niko and John, are very specific 'people' and that making them customizable would have taken away from the narrative of the game, sort of how Aliens would have not been the same had Ripley been a man.

I'd be fine with a GTA game starring a woman as long as she's written well, something that shouldn't be very difficult for a studio of Rockstar's calibur.

KenKenpachi wrote...

Well
first off how many women are in prision for the sort of crimes
committed in GTA versus men? A female progatonist in that line of work,
would honestly not last long.

You hear about women criminals all the time. Just the other day I read about a female Mob Boss that was finally arrested. Yeah there's less of them than the male variety, but that's not really a restriction a work of fiction needs to worry about, is it?

Modifié par Mike2640, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[Nashiktal]

GTAV and SRTT have both gone down their own paths, enough so that outside of the usual sanbox setting they are not comparable story wise.

They both fulfill their own niches. I don't see why they can't coexist.

Although to be fair, the MC of SR is a defined character. No matter how crazy you get with customizing him/her, the MC always has, and always will do certain things over the course of his/her lifetime. Just like nikko belic. (I think I spelled his name wrong)

The MC will always get overconfident against maero and end up paying for it by losing carlos. The MC will always break gat out of jail, you get the idea. The MC does have a set story that does have me enthralled. The MC was shown in SR2 as going crazy from being betrayed, and is on a quick spiral to crazy town.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:30 .

[KenKenpachi]

A mob boss doesn't dirtty there hands all to often unlike what the TV shows, thats the real reason they are hard to catch. And it depends if that work of fiction is aiming for "realism" then yes, yes it does.  Al Capone in the US is well known, but he also had a very short run and he was a dumb ass. Most mob bosses are not widely known and are operational brains, not cleaners or Soldiers. Which is the Role the GTA protagonist has always played.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:31 .

[Nashiktal]

jreezy wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

GTAV and SRTT have both gone down their own paths, enough so that outside of the usual sanbox setting they are not comparable story wise.

They both fulfill their own niches. I don't see why they can't coexist.

Although to be fair, the MC of SR is a defined character. No matter how crazy you get with customizing him/her, the MC always has, and always will do certain things over the course of his/her lifetime. Just like nikko belic. (I think I spelled his name wrong)

The MC will always get overconfident against maero and end up paying for it by losing carlos. The MC will always break gat out of jail, you get the idea. The MC does have a set story that does have me enthralled. The MC was shown in SR2 as going crazy from being betrayed, and is on a quick spiral to crazy town.

The MC definitely has some issues he/she needs to work out since SR2. I can't wait to see if the character is a bit more together or maybe even more crazy. Personally I vote for at least a bit more crazy, just a bit. That is Saints Row after all.

Spoilers for SR2 ho!!!!

My gut definitely twisted after the MC killed julius, and stuffed maero's girlfriend in the trunk of a car during his monster truck rally. I wonder just how far the MC will go against this new foe.

[KenKenpachi]

I found those to be acceptable responses myself lulz.

I mean one did try to blow you up, actully DID, and the other hog tied one of your friends behind a truck, or at least it was her orders.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:45 .

[Nashiktal]

KenKenpachi wrote...

I found those to be acceptable responses myself lulz.

I mean one did try to blow you up, actully DID, and the other hog tied one of your friends behind a truck, or at least it was her orders.

As I mentioned before though that was the MC's fault. The MC started it by putting that radioactive waste in his ink, and while I found that hilarious (and horrifying at the same time) that is was caused maero in his rage to do that to carlos.

Although it probably would have helped if the MC had better negotiation skills.  I can understand not wanting to be the 20 in the 80/20 deal, but the MC wasn't the king of the city at the time. (unless you did the other gangs first... but still)

[Mike2640]

Nashiktal wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

GTAV and SRTT have both gone down their own paths, enough so that outside of the usual sanbox setting they are not comparable story wise.

They both fulfill their own niches. I don't see why they can't coexist.

Although to be fair, the MC of SR is a defined character. No matter how crazy you get with customizing him/her, the MC always has, and always will do certain things over the course of his/her lifetime. Just like nikko belic. (I think I spelled his name wrong)

The MC will always get overconfident against maero and end up paying for it by losing carlos. The MC will always break gat out of jail, you get the idea. The MC does have a set story that does have me enthralled. The MC was shown in SR2 as going crazy from being betrayed, and is on a quick spiral to crazy town.

The MC definitely has some issues he/she needs to work out since SR2. I can't wait to see if the character is a bit more together or maybe even more crazy. Personally I vote for at least a bit more crazy, just a bit. That is Saints Row after all.

Spoilers for SR2 ho!!!!

My gut definitely twisted after the MC killed julius, and stuffed maero's girlfriend in the trunk of a car during his monster truck rally. I wonder just how far the MC will go against this new foe.

Yeah I've really been thinkin about that lately. I only recently found out about the secret Julius mission (after playing through the game twice years ago<_<) and seeing that really showed that, despite being funny and pretty cool, the MC is pretty much evil. At the very least a supervillian. I'm wondering if they're going to pull a Scarface somewhere down the line where all his reckless flaunting of power catches up with him.

KenKenpachi wrote...

A mob boss doesn't dirtty there hands
all to often unlike what the TV shows, thats the real reason they are
hard to catch. And it depends if that work of fiction is aiming for
"realism" then yes, yes it does.  Al Capone in the US is well known, but
he also had a very short run and he was a dumb ass. Most mob bosses are
not widely known and are operational brains, not cleaners or Soldiers.
Which is the Role the GTA protagonist has always played.

Realistic to a degree. The main character still winds up killing hundreds of people throughout the game. That's crazy, regardless of what gender you are. Is it less realistic for a female character to be a hard working criminal, willing to get her hands dirty (Something we've already seen in GTA IV in Elizabeta Torres) than for one person to commit a one man holocaust? 

Modifié par Mike2640, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:53 .

[KenKenpachi]

Hmm Not really He had that coming when he insulted the MC with that offer. And reguardless the MC had gone from nothing to running the city, only to find people had forgotten they ran that City before. So he most likely didn't see or even need a partnership with Maero. Besides in such groups negotiation is often seen as a weakness to be exploited. So while the saints might have ended up with 20% of the City, it would have never really been theres. Besides with the ods plus a fixed ground set The saints could have ended up with very little, or surrounded and dealt with afterwards.

In long term stratigic thinking deals with such people never work out well for you.

Edit as to the above,

Its rare but it happens such as with a German Soldier who's name escapes me atm, who killed well over 1500 allied troops at Omaha Beach.

And actully doing something like in GTA is readily possible, say in New York City, if such an indavidual went "screw it" The city only has 50k police officers, versus a population of 8 million, provided such a gunman kept moving and was motivated there is no telling what may happen. Though the final outcome is for sure, the gunman alone and without support will always die like the GTA protagonist. However a few bandaids or pizza won't hell you. Also A rampage in a Tank is fully possible, it is rather easy to aquire a demilitarized one, and a number of Soldiers have gone on drunken rampages. Its only sheer luck massive deaths have not fallowed them. But it is a game never the less, the question is how many of the fans would be willing to play as a woman?

From what I've seen not many. In fact some of them who "are" in the criminal life would consider it down right insulting. Heck in Saints Row I get funny looks for always having at least one female companion.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 02 novembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[Mike2640]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Hmm Not really He had that coming when he insulted the MC with that offer. And reguardless the MC had gone from nothing to running the city, only to find people had forgotten they ran that City before. So he most likely didn't see or even need a partnership with Maero. Besides in such groups negotiation is often seen as a weakness to be exploited. So while the saints might have ended up with 20% of the City, it would have never really been theres. Besides with the ods plus a fixed ground set The saints could have ended up with very little, or surrounded and dealt with afterwards.

In long term stratigic thinking deals with such people never work out well for you.

Edit as to the above,

Its rare but it happens such as with a German Soldier who's name escapes me atm, who killed well over 1500 allied troops at Omaha Beach.

And actully doing something like in GTA is readily possible, say in New York City, if such an indavidual went "screw it" The city only has 50k police officers, versus a population of 8 million, provided such a gunman kept moving and was motivated there is no telling what may happen. Though the final outcome is for sure, the gunman alone and without support will always die like the GTA protagonist. However a few bandaids or pizza won't hell you. Also A rampage in a Tank is fully possible, it is rather easy to aquire a demilitarized one, and a number of Soldiers have gone on drunken rampages. Its only sheer luck massive deaths have not fallowed them. But it is a game never the less, the question is how many of the fans would be willing to play as a woman?

From what I've seen not many. In fact some of them who "are" in the criminal life would consider it down right insulting. Heck in Saints Row I get funny looks for always having at least one female companion.

But then you need to ask yourself when you're talking to people who see a strong, capable woman starring in a piece of fiction and they think it's stupid or insulting: "Why do I care what these closeminded people think, and why should Rockstar?"

The guys at Rockstar are constantly challenging their audience's preconcieved notions regarding all sorts of things. Playing as a woman wouldn't be the most "controversial" thing they've ever done. Hell, it wouldn't even be in the top ten.

[KenKenpachi]

Minus it depends if said people are the majority or not, Rock star doesn't put the stuff it does in games in the hopes of low sell figures.

If say 70% of the players said NO, then it would not happen, that figure is a bit "meh" also some of those "close minded people" would if insulted most likely murder you....and yeah that tends to sway some people.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 02 novembre 2011 - 08:11 .

[Mike2640]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Minus it depends if said people are the majority or not, Rock star doesn't put the stuff it does in games in the hopes of low sell figures.

If say 70% of the players said NO, then it would not happen, that figure is a bit "meh" also some of those "close minded people" would if insulted most likely murder you....and yeah that tends to sway some people.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who would've thought that GTA didn't need a male-full frontal nudity scene, or playing as a Latino protaganist working for a gay business man.

The thing i've noticed about people who get offended about stuff in games is that they bluster about it for a while before they realize how trivial it all is and then find better use of their time.

Rockstar doesn't pander to what they hope is the popular opinion at the time, they make what they think is a good game. If they had an idea for a game starring a female protaganist that they thought was good, I doubt they'd be worried about what the mysogenist members of their audience thinks before working on it. In fact, they'd probably go out of their way to make fun of them.

[KenKenpachi]

I rather doubt that, rockstar is drunk on the money making machine.

[Mike2640]

And the only reason they have that money making machine is because they make consistently good games set to their own standard of quality, not anyone elses.

[KenKenpachi]

Which in Turn is because of Rockstars Fans, if Rockstar pissed them off, who would buy the games? Some magical Money tree I guess?

But meh I have this same type of conversation on Star Wars being bigger than Lucas all the time.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 02 novembre 2011 - 08:21 .

[Mike2640]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Which in Turn is because of Rockstars Fans, if Rockstar pissed them off, who would buy the games? Some magical Money tree I guess?

But meh I have this same type of conversation on Star Wars being bigger than Lucas all the time.

Star Wars is bigger than Lucas, but that's beside the point.

I'm not going to say pissed off fans dont have an effect on sales. Dragon Age 2 proves that they do (Or atleast that Pissed Off fans dont like ****ty games). But at the same time, if it's something people can look past, like a character having a certain appearance or gender, then they usually will. If the writing and gameplay is solid people will enjoy themselves (Maybe even learn something along the way).

And, since most people are rational and reasonable, I don't think making a female protagonist would be as much of a deal breaker as you think it would be.

Modifié par Mike2640, 02 novembre 2011 - 08:27 .