1757 réponses à ce sujet

[Sporothrix]

Mr.House wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Satire.

That excuse loses weight when all female characters are sex objects, sleep around or are just rude with no such thing as a strong female character unlike say RDR that has a bunch of strong female characters who are not turned into sex objects, jokes or just plain ****es. The whole "it's satire" is a ****** poor excuse if ever I seen one.

That's exactly my sentiment. As I've seen, most people who say it's satire consider it as that just because the sexism is so hardcore and therefore shouldn't be considered serious. They also say it's "parody", but parody, unlike satire, doesn't necessarily have to mock subject it touches (was "Young Frankenstein" in any way negative to its source?), while satire is supposed to show how ridiculous some thing or way of thinking is. It's supposed to implant negative attitude to what it laughs at.

Now, speaking of GTA V, I know that whole in-game world is misogynistic (radio talk about "using women as urinals", advertisements treating women in degrading way, etc.). This could work as satire (showing by such exagerration how women are treated in real world) if there were likeable female characters that we could feel for and see how it affects their life. But as far as I know, there aren't any - female characters are portrayed in negative way and there are even feminists we're supposed to laugh at - so player can't empathize with them and their situation, misogyny of in-game world finds affirmation in portrayal of female characters. Therefore, it's not satire, because it doesn't express misogyny in such way that makes players feel negative about it.

Modifié par misoretu9, 29 septembre 2013 - 11:48 .

[Nerdage]

It's reductio ad absurdum (or maybe hyperbole?) applied to things which are relatively common, at least in media; that's satire. There doesn't have to be a relatable victim, otherwise the absurdity is unnecessary and you'd probably want it to be more realistic anyway so people could actually relate to the situation that character's in - which would be much closer to the real-world one - and understand why it's wrong in the real world as a result.

I don't see how the absurdity could be lost on anyone; if people see the things in GTA and actually think "yep, that's how it should be" then damn, I didn't realize things were so bad.. There's nothing good about the way GTA paints western society; if some people still manage to find some kind of affirmation in there then they don't need satire, they need some kind of 12-step program.

[Volus Warlord]

Personally I found most of the instances of "misogyny" hilarious.

But that's just me. And I thought the blond girl was Michael's daughter.

[Wolfspawn]

As for the game being "misogynistic", do you think Rockstar is actively trying to promote the hatefulness of women, especially with all that obvious satire in there? Whether it was successful satire or not is up in the air, but still.

I think at most, the game is inadvertently sexist. The word "misogynistic" is as overused as hell.

As for the lack of female protagonists being an issue, if there were instead three FEMALE protagonists, but no male, would people be complaining?

Modifié par bob_20000, 29 septembre 2013 - 02:54 .

[Volus Warlord]

bob_20000 wrote...
As for the lack of female protagonists being an issue, if there were instead three FEMALE protagonists, but no male, would people be complaining?

Yes.

I can't see women in the situations Michael, Franklin, and Trevor were in without it coming across as horrifically odd or awkward.

I mean, if Trevor were a woman, people would shout misogyny all the louder.


That being said, if they made a female protaganist, I'd be interested to see how it turned out.

[SlottsMachine]

bob_20000 wrote...

As for the game being "misogynistic", do you think Rockstar is actively trying to promote the hatefulness of women, especially with all that obvious satire in there? Whether it was successful satire or not is up in the air, but still.

No, I don't believe Rockstar is up to something so nefarious. I just think they lack a certain subtlety or creativeness or whatever, I can't really find the word that best fits. I did read a review that touched on this subject, the author brought up Tarantino as a comparison. Meaning there shared one track mind style.   

Modifié par General Slotts, 29 septembre 2013 - 04:27 .

[Zjarcal]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Oh and the FBI Lady was Karen/Michelle from GTA IV. Seems like her "they made me an offer I couldn't refuse" excuse isn't working anymore.

Wait wat? SERIOUSLY?!?!?!

Ok, either I wasn't paying attention properly or they don't properly mention this.

Now I wonder if Niko ever got lubed up... :innocent:

bob_20000 wrote...

As for the game being "misogynistic", do you think Rockstar is actively trying to promote the hatefulness of women, especially with all that obvious satire in there? Whether it was successful satire or not is up in the air, but still.

I think at most, the game is inadvertently sexist. The word "misogynistic" is as overused as hell.

Yeah I agree. While I do think they failed in their satire attempt, pretending the game literally wants you to hate women is pushing it.

bob_20000 wrote...

As for the lack of female protagonists being an issue, if there were instead three FEMALE protagonists, but no male, would people be complaining?

Lol, you don't think the average gamer would've been up in arms at being forced to be a girl in their beloved GTA? The game would've probably flopped had this been the case.

Mind you, no one was talking about a female protagonist per se, just a relevant female character (though I did find it disappointing they didn't include a female protagonist with the whole three protagonists thing, but that's a different issue).

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

You know what I want? I want R* to tease a female protagonist leading up to the release of GTA VI, and I want them to kill her off in the first five minutes of the game; only to find out that the guy who did it is the real protagonist of GTA VI. Now that would be funny.

Nah, they should turn her into a tentacle monster that will hunt the other protagonist for the entire game.

[AresKeith]

Anybody remember Mary Ann , the exercise nut

[Kalas747]

AresKeith wrote...

Anybody remember Mary Ann , the exercise nut

I don't see the point of getting her phone number.  I tried calling her several times with franklin and michael to no avail.

[Volus Warlord]

AresKeith wrote...

Anybody remember Mary Ann , the exercise nut

It's hard not to. 

[2Pac]

Am i the only one who hates trevor?

[Volus Warlord]

alliance commander wrote...

Am i the only one who hates trevor?

No. But I like him.

[Seboist]

Trevor's a good myn.

[2Pac]

Seboist wrote...

Trevor's a good myn.

lol not really. I hate him because *SPOILER * he killed johnny. Right after he did that i lost all chances of liking him. *SPOILER* i killed him at the end.

[The Night Mammoth]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

This is a point I made elsewhere. I guess I should post it here.

"How many female bank robbers have there been? Arms/drug traffickers? How many female, real world equivalents of Tommy Vercetti, CJ or Niko Bellic? Even Franklin, Michael and Trevor?

There aren't many. Good luck in your search. There could be a more vital role for female characters in GTA, but I'm not sure protagonist is the spot. Reality helps shape and dictate these games (and pretty much every game that has ever existed), and the majority of real world criminals that are involved in the type of activities that a GTA protagonist is involved in are men. That is not an opinion. That is a fact."

That's how I feel about it. I don't think Grand Theft Auto is some crusade R*/R* North has been on to corrupt the view of women in the Western world. It's just...Grand Theft Auto. If you don't what it's about, don't play it. It's a pretty simple concept.

This is a good point. The devs also made the point before release that the sex of the three protagonists is important to their personalities and stories. I found this to a very correct statement, particularly for Michael and Franklin. It would have been easy enough to make Trevor female, if he were the only prota', but his relationship with Michael wouldn't have made as much sense. 

[AresKeith]

alliance commander wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Trevor's a good myn.

lol not really. I hate him because *SPOILER * he killed johnny. Right after he did that i lost all chances of liking him. *SPOILER* i killed him at the end.

I never liked Johnny that much, the only thing I didn't like about was them making him a meth head

[Mr.House]

The only good thing Trevor did do was kill Johnny, other then that he's a piece of crap. Burning him is the best thing the player can do.

[Mr.House]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

This is a point I made elsewhere. I guess I should post it here.

"How many female bank robbers have there been? Arms/drug traffickers? How many female, real world equivalents of Tommy Vercetti, CJ or Niko Bellic? Even Franklin, Michael and Trevor?

There aren't many. Good luck in your search. There could be a more vital role for female characters in GTA, but I'm not sure protagonist is the spot. Reality helps shape and dictate these games (and pretty much every game that has ever existed), and the majority of real world criminals that are involved in the type of activities that a GTA protagonist is involved in are men. That is not an opinion. That is a fact."

That's how I feel about it. I don't think Grand Theft Auto is some crusade R*/R* North has been on to corrupt the view of women in the Western world. It's just...Grand Theft Auto. If you don't what it's about, don't play it. It's a pretty simple concept.

Again, all past games had at least one major female character who could hold her own and was no reducded to being a sex object or to be laughed at. One. There is no excuse in GTAV at all. You dpn't have an issue, that's fine but people do and there is simply no excuse at all. For example Paige could have easily been a much bigger character then what she was, instead she is put into a minor role, same with Franklins ex. There is simply no excuse for this at all.

[2Pac]

Mr.House wrote...

The only good thing Trevor did do was kill Johnny, other then that he's a piece of crap. Burning him is the best thing the player can do.

I agree with everything but killing johnny wasn't a good thing. <_<

[LPPrince]

Paige wasn't a sex object or someone to be laughed at.

[Mr.House]

LPPrince wrote...

Paige wasn't a sex object or someone to be laughed at.

*headdesk* Did you even read? I said major characters.  Paige is minor, and I mentioned her in fact that she is one of the few exceptions but is again a very minor character. Same with Franklins ex.

Modifié par Mr.House, 29 septembre 2013 - 06:11 .

[Sylvianus]

Well, we have Michael toward the end saying it's really bad to treat badly women, and we should respect them. Just wanted to give this fact.

The same, for the homophobe ( son of Michael ), finally getting a gay friend toward the end.

And Trevor that blames racism and praises multiculturalism.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 septembre 2013 - 06:18 .