228 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

We don't know where the Qunari came from. There is a lot of unexplored land to the north. Darkspawn could have encountered Kossith in land beyond the Anderfels.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 06 novembre 2011 - 12:33 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

You don't need to know about Blights tp know about Darkspawn... The Qunari probably knew about Darkspawn always, but had never experienced anything similar to a Blight. So Qunari experience with Darkspawns had been limited to small warbands and straglers. The idea of a Blight would make the Qunari curious, because they have a hard time imagining the meagre Darkspawn as a nation shattering threat. Hence the Arishok's question was "What is the Blight?" and not "What is the Darkspawn?".

[General User]

...or the kossith unfortunate enough to be the source of the ogre's were not qunari. I'm referring here to both Tal-Vashoth and "other."

Modifié par General User, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:35 .

[AlexXIV]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You don't need to know about Blights tp know about Darkspawn... The Qunari probably knew about Darkspawn always, but had never experienced anything similar to a Blight. So Qunari experience with Darkspawns had been limited to small warbands and straglers. The idea of a Blight would make the Qunari curious, because they have a hard time imagining the meagre Darkspawn as a nation shattering threat. Hence the Arishok's question was "What is the Blight?" and not "What is the Darkspawn?".

Question remains how did Qunari become darkspawn in the First Blight? Either they have been there before or been made darkspawn during the blight. And how did they get to Thedas centuries before the first Qunari arrived there?. Since the First Blight happened right after the Tevinters entered the black city and became darkspawn and I don't think they had Qunari with them. I could be wrong of course.

[Herr Uhl]

AlexXIV wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You don't need to know about Blights tp know about Darkspawn... The Qunari probably knew about Darkspawn always, but had never experienced anything similar to a Blight. So Qunari experience with Darkspawns had been limited to small warbands and straglers. The idea of a Blight would make the Qunari curious, because they have a hard time imagining the meagre Darkspawn as a nation shattering threat. Hence the Arishok's question was "What is the Blight?" and not "What is the Darkspawn?".

Question remains how did Qunari become darkspawn in the First Blight? Either they have been there before or been made darkspawn during the blight. And how did they get to Thedas centuries before the first Qunari arrived there?. Since the First Blight happened right after the Tevinters entered the black city and became darkspawn and I don't think they had Qunari with them. I could be wrong of course.

They didn't necessarily exist during the first blight, but they existed in blights before the arrival of Qunari to Thedas.

[Zanallen]

Well, the first Blight lasted 200 years. So, there is no need for a kossith to be amongst the magisters who entered the city. There could have been a small kossith colony outside of the sphere of Tevinter influence that was overrun during the course of the first blight. Or the Deep Roads might run into Qunari lands. Its hard to say, since we really have very little information about the history of the Qunari.

[EmperorSahlertz]

We don't even know how long there was between the corruption of the Golden City and the First Blight. We only know that it didn't happen immediately after.

[dragonflight288]

The Darkspawn were in the Deeproads years before the first blight. The dwarves were fighting them in small numbers while the darkspawn was searching for an archdemon. And the Deeproads cover ALL of Thedas. It does not seem unlikely that during that time, people were taken by the darkspawn and the threat not taken seriously.

[Heimdall]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Not necessarily regarding when the city turned black, but not only that, the existence of ogres also doesn't mean that darkspawn existed before Corypheus. All it means is that somehow some of the darkspawn must have encountered Kossith at some point in time back then.

True, the darkspawn may have ecountered the first Qunari expeditions coming south for all we know.  The point is rather inconclusive.

The problem is that nearly a 1000 years passed between the first blight and the invasion of the qunari. And the qunari comes from the other side of the ocean. So the darkspawn must be on other continents as well.

Not at all, I don't doubt the kossith still had ships in that time period, they could quite easily have sailed south in a small group and been overtaken by one of the early darkspawn bands,  It's unlikely there are darkspawn in other lands.  They're all drawn by the call of the old gods in Thedas.  They probably would not travel away from it if they could.

[Warden Majere]

The Deep Roads span a very large area. Most likely the Darkspawn used that as a way of transportation and came across Kissoth before they came to Thedas?

[jamesp81]

Zanallen wrote...

In my experience, gamers on average tend to be against religion. Bioware doesn't have to vilify the chantry. Their audience will do it for them.

Which is why most games are highly annoying to me these days.  It gets very, very old when every religious institution is portrayed as the badguy every single time.

[jamesp81]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Because he doesn't know what he is talking about, that's why...

A common condition, unfortunately.  There are a great many myths about the middle ages these days that are accepted as gospel truth, if you'll pardon the expression, when those myths are anything but truth.

[AlexXIV]

Yeah I don't need an evil religious institution to fight either. Even though both is old. Good church, bad church, been there, seen that. I've actually been pro-Chantry at first until I started to understand the mage/magic problematic and how the Chantry is more than a religion, rather an informal 'empire', led from Orlais.

I really hate to be in the 'I am atheist irl, so I hate every religion, even in game' drawer because I really don't think I belong there. But given the facts I have not much choice in DA. At least I feel that I don't.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 08 novembre 2011 - 02:46 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

jamesp81 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

In my experience, gamers on average tend to be against religion. Bioware doesn't have to vilify the chantry. Their audience will do it for them.

Which is why most games are highly annoying to me these days.  It gets very, very old when every religious institution is portrayed as the badguy every single time.

The Chantry isn't portrayed as the bad guys. Many people just insist on viewing them as such... They look at the mages and go "aaaw, poor magey... BAD religion BAD!" and then disregard all forms of context, and goes on a hissyfit whenever someone tries to point out the other point of view.

Or alternatively: They look at the Elves and go "aaaw poor Elfies... religion did this? BAD religion! BAD!" And again totally disregards all forms of context, especially that the Chantry weren't even involed until the final acts of the war.

Basically the gamers are trying as hard as humanly possible to vilify the Chantry, the game isn't.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Chantry isn't portrayed as the bad guys. Many people just insist on viewing them as such... They look at the mages and go "aaaw, poor magey... BAD religion BAD!" and then disregard all forms of context, and goes on a hissyfit whenever someone tries to point out the other point of view.

You mean people disagree with the Chantry controlled Circles.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Or alternatively: They look at the Elves and go "aaaw poor Elfies... religion did this? BAD religion! BAD!" And again totally disregards all forms of context, especially that the Chantry weren't even involed until the final acts of the war.

According to the Dalish, the war started because the templars invaded the Dales when they kicked out the missionaries and refused to convert to the Chantry of Andraste.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Basically the gamers are trying as hard as humanly possible to vilify the Chantry, the game isn't.

You mean people disagree with the Chantry of Andraste, considering they are intent on spreading the Chant of Light to the four corners of the world, which The Warden can point out seems like a means of allowing the Chantry a great deal of control.

[AlexXIV]

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

[EmperorSahlertz]

AlexXIV wrote...

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

Exactly. Yet people are curiously quick to paint the Chantry as the absolute bad guys, even when they don't have all pieces of the puzzle yet.

[AlexXIV]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

Exactly. Yet people are curiously quick to paint the Chantry as the absolute bad guys, even when they don't have all pieces of the puzzle yet.

People are always more sympathetic with the supposed underdog.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

Exactly. Yet people are curiously quick to paint the Chantry as the absolute bad guys, even when they don't have all pieces of the puzzle yet.

We have enough pieces to know it will not a be pretty picture. And the chantry is not the bad guys. They believe mages are a threat and take steps(i will also remind you that their isa group within the chantry that likes their power)i. And i agree with them but not on how they do it. From what im seeing the chantry clings to their obsolete ways while not looking for any improvements because of some old holy text or because they like their power to much. 

Because of this the chantry opposes human development and needs to be stripped of their military and political power for the good of thedas.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

Exactly. Yet people are curiously quick to paint the Chantry as the absolute bad guys, even when they don't have all pieces of the puzzle yet.

Which doesn't seem to stop you from supporting them, so I don't see why you take issue with people who disagree with the Chantry of Andraste.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

Exactly. Yet people are curiously quick to paint the Chantry as the absolute bad guys, even when they don't have all pieces of the puzzle yet.

Which doesn't seem to stop you from supporting them, so I don't see why you take issue with people who disagree with the Chantry of Andraste.

I support them, but I don't paint them as the good guys, or anyone else as the bad guys. At best I paint them as the group I'm most sympathetic towards. At worst I paint them as the lesser of many evils.

[AlexXIV]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

Exactly. Yet people are curiously quick to paint the Chantry as the absolute bad guys, even when they don't have all pieces of the puzzle yet.

Which doesn't seem to stop you from supporting them, so I don't see why you take issue with people who disagree with the Chantry of Andraste.

I support them, but I don't paint them as the good guys, or anyone else as the bad guys. At best I paint them as the group I'm most sympathetic towards. At worst I paint them as the lesser of many evils.

Well as long as you're open-minded it is all fine. DA3 or 4 could change things around, in either direction. I for one am right now rather on the pro mage side, but only like 51:49.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 08 novembre 2011 - 06:44 .

[jamesp81]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

There is so much prejudice around topics like this that I doubt many come out of it clean.

Also hard to see context if we don't have historical facts that we can base it on. You can believe either side but you cannot know. Not yet anyway.

Exactly. Yet people are curiously quick to paint the Chantry as the absolute bad guys, even when they don't have all pieces of the puzzle yet.

The only thing I can legitimately criticize them on is their treatment of mages (an issue I think I've made my own position pretty clear on in other threads).  The thing with the Dales....well, we don't really know the whole truth, now do we?

They have done quite a bit of good.  I might not like how templars treat mages, but it was templars, among others, that marched against the qunari.  Templars have also seen there share of fighting darkspawn.

Modifié par jamesp81, 08 novembre 2011 - 08:57 .

[Huntress]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Considering the multitude of threads complaining about how Bioware is pushing certain groups to seem better/worse than they actually are, is this also the case for the chantry? They make Meredith incompetent, make Elthina ineffectual, have them harbor mad zealots, have them endorse the conquest and further occupation of Ferelden, force all elves to live either on the run or as second class citizens, lobotimize people because they're dangerous, plan exalted marches on the drop of a hat and so forth.

I'm sure there are many and more things people would like to bring up here, so let's have it. How is bioware making the chantry look bad?

We have only seen the bad things that are happening with templars behaving towards mages and mages turning to blood-magic to try to keep themselves alive..( many fails at the end though), next game we might learn that some good things can come from the chantry/mages or the qunari.
I just want to see NORMAL people trying to survive a mess that someone also made.. Like the chantry trying to clean up meredith tyrannic rules in kirkwall, mages not turning into demons ( blood magic is fine) and tallis to return to being an Elf and that want to help her own people find a place in thedas..
i am a pro-mage and all but that is my hope, to see NORMAL people from each of this sides, every side has a big pile of poo, lets try and show their good side.. please am so tired of crazy people and of stupid mages turning to demons.

[AlexXIV]

One thing that bothers me is more of a suspicion than a fact. Maybe I am paranoid or just a pessimist/conspiracy theorist, whatever. But one thing I wonder about all the good things the Chantry is doing. How much is actually benevolence and how much is PR. Because I have the feeling the Chantry has a relatively good image with most people despite the not-so-nice things they do.

So honestly I think it would be a clever move to build an organisation to hide some dark secrets and make it so that most people believe they are just a bunch of idealistic world improvers. That's basically what most sects do. All shiny and clean at the outside and piles of skeletons in the closet.

Not that I have any evidence, just a thought that follows me around like a bad habit.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 08 novembre 2011 - 11:50 .