133 réponses à ce sujet

[armass]

All of those are very good points. Ive been wandering those myself.

[King Minos]

Wandering? I find the characters stories more interesting than the main plot.

[whywhywhywhy]

SNascimento wrote...

Is this one more of those topics: ME1's story was great ME2's was bad? Because arguments in this kind of things tends to be horrible, this for once: No one on Virmire thought to start up an Omni-tool and record the Q&A with Soverign? Ok, fool me once, shame on you. ARRIVAL- once again we talk to a Reaper, and does Shepard record it? Sure didn't mention to Hackett if she did. Fool me twice...
.
What would be the point in this? Prove the Reapers exist? I mean, Sovereign attack the cidatel, the council had access to its parts and even after that they choose to ignore this threat. Anyone thinks an audio record would change that?

I don't think that matters much your coming directly from combat and he had just linked with the second beacon.  Granted his teammates should have recorded it the fact that they didn't doesn't seem far fetch.  In hindsight sure but at the time during my first play through I wasn't thinking "record this dude" at all. 

But during my conversation with the prothean AI I was thinking that exact thing, "store him on the omnitool and keep moving."  That's to me the thing that they got wrong they had 3 omnitools some attempt to preserve him and then get moving should have been made.  When the AI said it didn't detect the taint of indoctrination my mind screamed "valuable!!"

[whywhywhywhy]

annihilator27 wrote...

Hopefully we dont get alot of emails lol.

rofl

[Wiggs Magee]

I do admit the ease at which my Shepard joined Cerberus is annoying and I'd be really pissed off if i spent ME2 defending Cerberus only to have them turn against you in ME3 which it is said will attack you know matter what your position was.

[whywhywhywhy]

Candidate 88766 wrote...
We can assume that the only way way Sovereign can communicate with the other Reapers is through the Citadel. This is backed up by the fact that Sovereign was so determined to reach the Citadel and the fact that the Reapers only woke up after Sovereign reached the Citadel. Either that, or the energy required to travel to the galaxy without the aid of Relays is risky for even the Reapers. We know from the codex that travelling at FTL speeds generates huge amounts of static electrical charge - charge which cannot be discharged in a vacuum. 2 years worth of static buildup is risky to say the least.

This theory has several issues.  Reapers have shown to be able to exercise indoctrination from very far distances.  To think that a reaper couldn't communicate with another of it's kind from even further distances doesn't exactly make sense. 

Sovereign was executing his prime directive, the value of the citadel is immense and sovereign doesn't need an additional reason for trying to activate it other then the control it gives over the relays.

The Static charge could be converted to energy and should be by the "advanced" race of sentient machines.  They only built the mass effect relays (according to them).

Candidate 88766 wrote...
Also, why would they hide more than 2
years away from the galaxy? It would make very little sense to have
this elaborate plan but then if it goes wrong the Reapers must then
spend decades trying to reach the galaxy again - flying for 2 years at
what we can assume were FTL speeds just to reach the edge of the galaxy
meant that the Reapers were ridiculously far away from the galaxy
anyway. Given that distance, I think we can assume that communication
between Sovereign and the other reapers would be at least tricky, if not
impossible without the Citadel.

Sovereign never gained any control over he citadel.

[Gemini1179]

Good bit of dialogue going on in this thread. It wasn't mean to be a "ME1 story vs ME2 story" thread. There are points made that if you look closely enough at ME1 the story there has issues- and that's true. The difference with ME1 was that it was all new and the 'wow' factor of the universe and lore covers its shortcomings. ME2 unfortunately doesn't have that luxury and so story issues really start to stick out. That said, I do love the combat, characters and dialogue in both games so much that the strength of the story doesn't have to hold everything together.

I really just needed to vent about the railroading and that bit with Vasir. That really rubbed me the wrong way when I was playing LotSB.

The rest of it is me hoping that we're not going to get a bit from the Council saying "we actually believed you all along but..."<- that will drive me nuts. If the alien council is still alive I really want a chance to let the Turian Councilor burn and to hit on the Asari Councilor... what? I've got a thing for her.

[Sgt Stryker]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
Also, why would they hide more than 2
years away from the galaxy? It would make very little sense to have
this elaborate plan but then if it goes wrong the Reapers must then
spend decades trying to reach the galaxy again - flying for 2 years at
what we can assume were FTL speeds just to reach the edge of the galaxy
meant that the Reapers were ridiculously far away from the galaxy
anyway. Given that distance, I think we can assume that communication
between Sovereign and the other reapers would be at least tricky, if not
impossible without the Citadel.

Sovereign never gained any control over he citadel.

Clarification: Sovereign didn't gain enough control of the Citadel to open the connection to Dark Space. It's unclear what the whole docking sequence accomplished, if anything. However, after its destruction, the rest of the Reapers all woke up and began their trek. I do have to wonder what event acted as the wake-up call, though. Was it Sovereign's destruction? Did Sovereign manage to at least send a message out before being destroyed? Was it something else entirely? We may never know....

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:56 .

[Cpt-Brit]

Sgt Stryker wrote...Clarification: Sovereign didn't gain enough control of the Citadel to open the connection to Dark Space. It's unclear what the whole docking sequence accomplished, if anything. However, after its destruction, the rest of the Reapers all woke up and began their trek. I do have to wonder what event acted as the wake-up call, though. Was it Sovereign's destruction? Did Sovereign manage to at least send a message out before being destroyed? Was it something else entirely? We may never know....

Right I haven't read the comics or books I was under the impression that blowing up the Collector base woke the Reapers up because you see Harbingers eyes light up then it shows you the galaxy and it looks quite a way away...

Has it been revealed in the literature about the time they dicided "Fu*k it" and started flying towards the galaxy?

[Candidate 88766]

Cpt-Brit wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...Clarification: Sovereign didn't gain enough control of the Citadel to open the connection to Dark Space. It's unclear what the whole docking sequence accomplished, if anything. However, after its destruction, the rest of the Reapers all woke up and began their trek. I do have to wonder what event acted as the wake-up call, though. Was it Sovereign's destruction? Did Sovereign manage to at least send a message out before being destroyed? Was it something else entirely? We may never know....

Right I haven't read the comics or books I was under the impression that blowing up the Collector base woke the Reapers up because you see Harbingers eyes light up then it shows you the galaxy and it looks quite a way away...

Has it been revealed in the literature about the time they dicided "Fu*k it" and started flying towards the galaxy?

The writers confirmed on Twitter that the Reapers woke up and began their journey to the Alpha Relay after Sovereign was destroyed. The scene at the end of ME2 was for dramatic effect - they would've been travelling at FTL speeds.

[suprhomre]

It would be better if we had the chance to choose to join with Cerberus in the first game as a Renegade and ignore them as a Paragon. It would make more sense. In ME2 depending on which choices from ME1. You will wake up from either a Cerberus station or Alliance/Citadel one. But I guess it would take too many resources to make this happen.

[Iakus]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

I don't think that matters much your coming directly from combat and he had just linked with the second beacon.  Granted his teammates should have recorded it the fact that they didn't doesn't seem far fetch.  In hindsight sure but at the time during my first play through I wasn't thinking "record this dude" at all.  

Talk to Ashley after Virmire.  Their hardsuits did record everything.  Making the Council's stupidity even more mind boggling

[Iakus]

Gemini1179 wrote...

NOW, if you're anti-Cerberus the whole way, and you play LotSB- you are FORCED to defend them to Tela Vasir. This drove me nuts, there was no option to say "I know who they are and I'll be dealing with them soon enough", your Paragon line is some crap about knowing what they've done and not caring. Not caring? I certainly did care about Admiral Kahoku and all the rest of the crap Cerberus pulled in ME1 and I'm stuck wondering "Who's Shepard is this, she isn't mine."

I remember that line.  It's actually worse than you remember it.

There was no Paragon option at all.  The line you're rmembering was a "neutral" response.

[DoNotIngest]

"Does the story even matter anymore"?


No, of course not. Go away.

[Jellyfish Opera]

I never joined Cerberus, I just agreed to work with them.

[The Spamming Troll]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Every time people fuss about ME2's story, I remember Benezia's dumb death speech and the mind-controlling plant that spat out zombie clones and space babes. And let's not forget how we were railroaded into recruiting Tali and Liara, into becoming a Spectre, into stealing the Normandy, how absolutely contrived Virmire was...

I'm not saying I didn't have problems with ME2's story, or that one was better than the other, but seriously, ME1 wasn't exactly perfect.

you seem to be well informed, so im wondering if your being sarcastic.

-benezia was in and out of indoctrination from soverign or saren.
-becoming a spectre in ME1 was one of the most memorable experiences in the entire game. who didnt want to be a spectre?
-talie is th reason shepard could convict saren with her stolen recording, as well as finding out benezia was also in volved.
-how else are you gonig to finish the game if you dont steal the normandy? spend your credits on a yugo?
-virmire is as legendary as becoming a spectre.

even if ME1 has some poor writing, ME2 still features the same, as well as plot holes AND terrible retcons. im not here to compare the two, but id say ME1s logic kicks the **** out of ME2s.

[Sgt Stryker]

iakus wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

I don't think that matters much your coming directly from combat and he had just linked with the second beacon.  Granted his teammates should have recorded it the fact that they didn't doesn't seem far fetch.  In hindsight sure but at the time during my first play through I wasn't thinking "record this dude" at all.  

Talk to Ashley after Virmire.  Their hardsuits did record everything.  Making the Council's stupidity even more mind boggling

Well, to be fair, the only useful information you could get from Virmire was the conversation with Sovereign's hologram, and the conversation with Saren. Mr. Air-Quotes could have easily dismissed both of these as more of Saren's mindgames, combined with a VI created by Saren to troll Shepard.

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Wiggs Magee wrote...

I do admit the ease at which my Shepard joined Cerberus is annoying and I'd be really pissed off if i spent ME2 defending Cerberus only to have them turn against you in ME3 which it is said will attack you know matter what your position was.

Story-telling does tend to cut out some of the more boring parts, you know.  How long does it take for the shuttle to go from Freedom's Progress to Minuteman Station?  Several hours, I'd bet.


When Shepard takes that final look at the screen, and the images Veetor was showing, do you really think Shepard's NOT going "D**N! ****!" (or some equavalent, more forceful swear-words)?

And not really repeating that thruought the ENTIRE trip?

[Bluko]

All aboard the Choo Choo Train!

Yeah the railroading with Cerberus kinda sucked. It would've made a lot more sense had they oh say taken Captain Anderson or Ashley/Kaidan hostage and forced you to cooperate. Instead my Shepard was like: "I don't like you and I think you're evil, but sure I'll do whatever you want."

Then T.I.M. (Bioware) conveniently puts you on the path to meet all these wacky characters who apparently have all these problems they need help with. Yeah not really the greatest setup. Makes the game feel less like an experience and more like your typical arcade game with various "stages".

It especially sucks if you're a Sole Survivor and did all those sidequests in ME1...

Honestly when playing ME2 with an imported default Sheploo from ME1 I was like "Don't do it man!" Seriously it was like watching the dumb blond girl wander into woods in a horror film. I especially don't get it since now Cerberus are the bad guys again in ME3. It kind of makes me wonder what the whole point was. But all I can do is hope Bioware isn't just yanking us around and that it all makes sense in ME3. Man I sure hope it does... otherwise ME3 is going to end up as one of my biggest game disappointments of all time.

I pray to the Biotic God every night...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Every time people fuss about ME2's story, I remember Benezia's dumb death speech and the mind-controlling plant that spat out zombie clones and space babes. And let's not forget how we were railroaded into recruiting Tali and Liara, into becoming a Spectre, into stealing the Normandy, how absolutely contrived Virmire was...

I'm not saying I didn't have problems with ME2's story, or that one was better than the other, but seriously, ME1 wasn't exactly perfect.

I get the impression you really really really don't like Asari Cheez?

ME1 has it's share of railroading and... plot holes, but they're a little more forgiveable. Also makes a little more sense given you are kind of carrying out an investigation. They also aren't that obvious unless you are really looking for them. I didn't even notice my first time playing ME1. ME2 kind of shoves stuff down your throat whether you like it or not. You know like:

"Hey let's all cram ourselves in this shuttle so the plot can move forward guys!"

Thing is it would have been extremely easy to make up a valid explanation for why that occurs, but they didn't bother. And yes that did stand out to me the first time I played. I don't like to harp on ME2 too much, but the direction the story has taken does concern me a bit.

I love shooting me some Geth, but it's a lot better with a good reason behind it.

[Ghost-621]

The more you cater, the less intelligence a game's story can have. ME1's heavy-handed story and lore would have scared off countless GOW and COD fanboys in ME2, and especially in ME3, which seems to be all about the pew-pew.

[Il Divo]

Ghost-621 wrote...

The more you cater, the less intelligence a game's story can have. ME1's heavy-handed story and lore would have scared off countless GOW and COD fanboys in ME2, and especially in ME3, which seems to be all about the pew-pew.

No offense, but if you think there was anything remotely complex or difficult about ME1's story...well, let's just say I don't think it's the GoW/CoD fans who have the problem.

[Gemini1179]

Sgt Stryker wrote...


Well, to be fair, the only useful information you could get from Virmire was the conversation with Sovereign's hologram, and the conversation with Saren. Mr. Air-Quotes could have easily dismissed both of these as more of Saren's mindgames, combined with a VI created by Saren to troll Shepard.

I... I can't even think about the Council right now, it's such a can of worms. These are the same people who say:

A. The Geth built Soverign

B. Saren, an organic being was able to use 'charisma' against the Geth. I don't know about you, but my computer rarely ever listens to me no matter how nice I am to it.

C. Saren then used said influence to convince the Geth that the ship they 'obviously' built was ACTUALLY an ancient machine God telling them to pledge themselves to him.

D. That the testimony of a 'traumatized' dock worker who had no connection to Anderson, Shepard, Nihilus or Saren would make a suspect witness. He would actually make a perfect witness.

E. The audio recording that Saren tried so desperately to have destroyed that was found on a random geth by a Quarian with no previous connection to the Alliance et al was a clever fabrication by Saren.


Ungh.... here I go again, I've got to stop now...

[Ghost-621]

Il Divo wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

The more you cater, the less intelligence a game's story can have. ME1's heavy-handed story and lore would have scared off countless GOW and COD fanboys in ME2, and especially in ME3, which seems to be all about the pew-pew.

No offense, but if you think there was anything remotely complex or difficult about ME1's story...well, let's just say I don't think it's the GoW/CoD fans who have the problem.

How cute  none taken though!

ME1 didn't have the "What the- why did- I thought that didn't work that way.." moments that ME2 did. For the pew-pew fanboys, yes, ME1's story and lore would have been percieved as heavy-handed, and had they actually kept up the quality in ME2, it would have scared all of them away for ME3.

If only... one can dream...one can dream.

[Lucky Thirteen]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Cpt-Brit wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...Clarification: Sovereign didn't gain enough control of the Citadel to open the connection to Dark Space. It's unclear what the whole docking sequence accomplished, if anything. However, after its destruction, the rest of the Reapers all woke up and began their trek. I do have to wonder what event acted as the wake-up call, though. Was it Sovereign's destruction? Did Sovereign manage to at least send a message out before being destroyed? Was it something else entirely? We may never know....

Right I haven't read the comics or books I was under the impression that blowing up the Collector base woke the Reapers up because you see Harbingers eyes light up then it shows you the galaxy and it looks quite a way away...

Has it been revealed in the literature about the time they dicided "Fu*k it" and started flying towards the galaxy?

The writers confirmed on Twitter that the Reapers woke up and began their journey to the Alpha Relay after Sovereign was destroyed. The scene at the end of ME2 was for dramatic effect - they would've been travelling at FTL speeds.

I'm sorry but you don't need that confirmed from writers over twitter or in the books or comics. Shepard says at the end of ME1 that the work isn't done yet and the Reapers are coming. I thought part of the reason (besides being told to by superiors) Shepard continued to investigate Geth over the next month before dying was because of trying to find something, anything else on the Reapers. Considering Shepard had nothing to go on after stopping Sovereign.

[ebevan91]

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what they've done with previous squadmates more than anything, and how they will return or leave.