147 réponses à ce sujet

[LilyasAvalon]

InHarmsWay wrote...

I have read the novels and comics and understand the process of indoctrination. I'm just saying he might have a resistance to it. We saw in Evolution that he was partially huskified, yet doesn't seem to show many symptoms of "long-term" indoctrination.

I know, I was agreeing with you.

[Thargorichiban]

Kileyan wrote...

Chrismm wrote...

Im sorry but why do poeple talk about indocrination like the reapers are bribing people with offers? thats not how it works. They change how you think and make you susceptable to their suggestions. For example and indoctrinated Garrus would be told shooting shepard would be a good idea and help their mission and he would believe it. Theres no "We will give you battles beyond your wildest imaginings if you join us" 

Yeh if they take over TIM or any squadmate, the won't be following the Reapers because the was promised that humanity would survive or Quarians will get a new home, they won't be making any sly deals. According to the books, indoctrination is like being inside your own body, watching it do things while you sit in a corner and watch. That is, until you lose youself completely. Pretty much similar to popular fictions ideas of being possessed. There is no consent, the reapers just take what they want or destroy you.

Anyways why isn't Legion being mentioned? The Reapers write virus and computer programs on the fly that are beyond anyones understanding. It takes them time to introduce technological pathways into organic beings, by which they influence and control them. The Geth are already perfect vessels for their control mechanisms. The first to go is mechano boy.

I mentioned Legion in the first post :happy:

Hopefully Legion kept the virus that he used to rewrite the Heretics to try and find some sort of defense. Otherwise I don't see how the Geth are going to keep their heads except by running away from the Reapers.

[hawat333]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I don't see a squadmate getting indoctrinated as anything but horrible writing.

I'm on the opposite site; it would be rather interesting.
If it was up to me, I'd vote for the romance interest.

[sponge56]

Strong willed has nothing to do with it, you will still get indocrinated ( eg, Saren).

[sorentoft]

Anyone on the crew can be indoctrinated. The most likely are the nameless NPCs. Among the named those who are not squad mates and romance options. Among those I would say Legion due to the risk of a virus, ruling the Geth out I would say everyone is about equal. All it would take is time and they would nod along with every word the reapers give.

[KainrycKarr]

If being charismatic and strong-willed had anything to do with indoctrination, Saren wouldn't have happened, so if one squadmate is susceptible, they all are.

That said, I think it would be an utterly retarded plot device seeing as they are FULLY AWARE of indoctrination and how it relates to the proximity of a Reaper.

[Beerfish]

Isabela cause she likes big boats.

[Celtic Latino]

01. Miranda- She's worked in-depth with Cerberus prior to meeting Shep. Who knows what kind of tests and technology went into creating her..., I especially think those who have lost her loyalty and had an antagonistic relationship with her are at risk for making a huge enemy out of her. 

02. Jack- Again, she's been subject to tests by Cerberus. We don't know exactly what kind of tests but we do know Jack's mind is pretty much broken as she is a trained killing machine. For those who romanced Jack it would definitely be a tearjerker since Shep tried to save her from herself. She has a weak mind. 

03. Jacob- I don't think it's as likely, but he did work with Cerberus and thus Cerberus has tabs on him. He's pretty level headed and sane but that also makes him just as likely to betray Shepard since he keeps a straight face no matter how you are to him. That straight face can hide a lot of things. 

04. Captain Anderson- I'm pretty much convinced after reading these posts that he's going to be one of the indoctrinated. Wouldn't be a BioWare classic story without it. 

05. Morinth- For those who let her live she's definitely susceptible to indoctrination. She thrives off of killing others and you know she'd accept a proposition from the Reapers if that means more minds to feed off of. She's be a damned dangerous asset to the Reapers too. 

06. Kelly Chambers- Especially since she gets that Thane-like memory after being harvested by the Collectors. Same with any other crew member, including Chakwas, Daniels, Donnelly, etc..., they've all been exposed to Reaper technology at some point. 

07. Joker- He was on that ship at the Collector's Base for an awfully long time. That would be a tearjerker to a lot of Mass Effect fans. For me it'd be pure joy because I finally have an excuse and am able to put the snarky, annoying little dog down...(sorry just had to put this >:-/). 

08. Grunt- Here's the stipulation, it's if Wreav is leading the clan. If Wrex survived I could see the krogan becoming allies. If Wreav is leading, it's going to be a different story. Wrex wants to better the krogan, Wreav wants krogan at their former glory. That former glory included raiding and nearly taking over the galaxy. You bet the Reapers are going to offer that kind of promise, and under Wreav its very likely Grunt will obey. 

09. Any Love Interest(s) of Shepards- I truly wouldn't be surprised if its the love interest that gets the indoctrination treatment. If Shep romanced Ash, Kaidan or Liara and was LOYAL to them, they can probably fight off the indoctrination. If Shep romanced an ME1 LI and 'cheated' on them in ME2, there's that chance there's less of a will to survive and they wind up turning on Shep. There's also the chance of having to choose between the ME1 and ME2 LI in terms of having to choose one to save. The other gets indoctrinated (not blown up on Virmire). 

10. Zaeed- He seriously cares more about credits than he does people. He willingly worked for Cerberus for the right price. He was willing to kill innocent people to get to Vido Santiago AND Zaeed himself was the founder of the Blue Suns mercs...which means he obviously had no problem extorting and killing people in the past (and doesn't seem to regret doing so). He seems to be one-minded...I wouldn't put it past him to work for the Reapers WILLINGLY...though if you have his loyalty that could be tested. 

[Skullheart]

If there's a squadmate being indoctrinated i doubt s/he could be some of the squadmates from ME2. Someonebeing indoctrinated is a big thing for takin care for someone that could have died in the SM. If someone is getting indoctrinated, s/he could be Liara or the VS, given theit plot armor, not other squad member has plot armorlike theirs to be in ME3.

[mulder1199]

Ofcoursenot wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Chakwas. She was exposed to a Reaper while sedated for however long it took between the kidnapping of your crew and the SM.

I thought indoctrination linked servants to one reaper at a time, not the whole fleet?

spolier below



the new comic basically shows that they've developed tech (seems like what cerberus has been doing) that husks can turn people into other husks if they get to close...so anybody is in danger of becoming a husk at least....

[SandTrout]

@Mulder,

That's pretty much unrelated to the discussion, though.

[AbsoluteApril]

the only one I suspected of starting to become indoctrinated was shepard him/herself - standing right in front of that unprotected reaper artifact during Arrival...

[mulder1199]

SandTrout wrote...

@Mulder,

That's pretty much unrelated to the discussion, though.

agreed, but earlier posts were assuming somebody like anderson would be indoctrinated after staying on earth and you'd have to make the hard choice to kill him later.....

it's not indoctrination, they are being made into a husk

so no, not the same, agreed....but the end result would be the same....

[mulder1199]

Mr.X.Pen wrote...

I think it has allready been said but I think it may be the Virmire Surviour. The fact that they survived when paralysed next to Lilith just doesn't make sence for me unless something went down there. Think about it: TIM dropped a hint to the Alliance which brought the VS to Horizon, the Collectors went after that colony and the VS was paralysed NEXT TO someone who was found in the base. 'Either a plot hole or a hint.

I've never been satisfied with what happened on horizon....i've always figured that the VS was one of the colonists left behind and when the collectors leave so do their swarms and the effects wear off....

[Dean_the_Young]

The answer would be 'all of them except Legion.' Because Legion is the only non-organic, and Indoctrination affects everyone.

Everything else is situational. What sort of exposure experience? How close/strong? Were the Reapers trying to overpower absolutely, or keep the crewmate as a capable slave?

Ultimately, they would all succumb.

whoISthatgirl wrote...

The only squadmate i could see being significantly harder to indoctrinate (usefully) would be Samara.

From ME1 (not read the books) it seems non-husk level indoctrination is only reliable when the subject doesn't believe they are affected by it. Benezia and Saren both briefly, but successfully, fight it after realising they're indoctrinated.

It seems to work by changes the way the subject views and feels about things but Samara's actions aren't affected by how she views or feels about things, she acts based on an external moral code(the code/sheps orders) so to get her to do anything majorly bad the indoctrination would have to be strong enough to get her to abandon the code, which should raise some major alarm bells in her mind and make her more likely to realise whats happening.

Garrus would be the only other henchmen that would possibly be hard to indoctrinate for similar reasons and due to his over reliance on Sheps approval.

Oh right the question was easiest.. erm.. well Tali seems to be the most stubborn when it comes to doing what she thinks is right so i'll go with her.

  

Samara, like most fanatics, would be twisted by skewing her perspective on the basis of her fanaticism. Besides the prospect of altering what she remembers about it (indoctrination can induce hallucinations and affect memories, ala the Derilect Reaper), the early stages of Indoctrination would appeal to what could be done within the code, using her own prior moral channels (such as was done with Grayson).

Once the Indoctrination entered later stages, Samara would not care and would see the Reaper's 'light' as equal, and eventually superior, to the Code.

[cindercatz]

I can't believe nobody's considered Shepard's cyborg implants. We know that Cerberus recovered most of the Reaper tech debris from the Citadel, finale of ME1. We know TIM has likely been indoctrinated a long time. We know Shepard has a red-eyed set of cyborg replacement parts very similar to Saren's. So why couldn't Shepard's replacement parts simply be, in Iarge part, Saren's repurposed Reaper tech skeleton?

I think Shepard's already indoctrinated and doesn't know it, and it's going to come down to just how much resistance Shepard has to the indoctrination. If you've made decisions as Shepard that benefit the Reapers, the indoctrination has been successful. If you've managed to make contrary decisions, then the indoctrination has been resisted. And in ME3, all of it will be layed out.

[Dean_the_Young]

Thargorichiban wrote...

I mentioned Legion in the first post :happy:

Hopefully Legion kept the virus that he used to rewrite the Heretics to try and find some sort of defense. Otherwise I don't see how the Geth are going to keep their heads except by running away from the Reapers.

Possibly because (a) indoctrination fields only work on organics, and ( the Heretic virus was dependent on direct-application to Geth nodes. There Heretic virus doesn't break the Geth resistance to hacking, or even challenge it: Geth hacking resistance is a matter of re-uploading 'pure' runtimes, while the Virus corrupts what the Geth are constantly being affected with.


Not that there's any real reason to believe the Reapers still have the Heretic virus: even with Sovereign's help it took the Heretics two years to develop the virus (two years without direct Reaper help), and Shepard and Legion showed up just in time to blow them up right after they finished it.

[Dean_the_Young]

cindercatz wrote...

I can't believe nobody's considered Shepard's cyborg implants. We know that Cerberus recovered most of the Reaper tech debris from the Citadel, finale of ME1. We know TIM has likely been indoctrinated a long time. We know Shepard has a red-eyed set of cyborg replacement parts very similar to Saren's. So why couldn't Shepard's replacement parts simply be, in Iarge part, Saren's repurposed Reaper tech skeleton?

Because Saren't Reaper skeleton burned itself to dust.

Next question!

I think Shepard's already indoctrinated and doesn't know it, and it's going to come down to just how much resistance Shepard has to the indoctrination. If you've made decisions as Shepard that benefit the Reapers, the indoctrination has been successful. If you've managed to make contrary decisions, then the indoctrination has been resisted. And in ME3, all of it will be layed out.

Except for lacking any signs, failings, hints of shared ideology, or growing affection for the Reapers, despite numerous times in which simply not fighting so hard would have been directly in line with the Reapers goals.

'Shepard is already indoctrinated' is about as sensible as the 'TIM is indoctrinated in ME2' theories.

[mineralica]

1) If indoctrination affected only weak-minded or it would be possible to fight against it using strong feelings to someone/something, Saren and Benezia would never get indoctrinated. Conclusion nb.1 - strong will doesn't mean character is saved.

2) Reapers used indoctrination on Prothean colonies (to make agents which, mimicking as refugees, would bait another Protean bases to help them and then the Reapers attacked) - they'll likely repeat this with Earth. Conclusion nb.2 - Anderson is in trouble

3) there was husk in Big Ben demo - looks like Reapers renewed their ground troops straight in battlefield. Conclusion nb.3 - Anderson is in big trouble

4) Normandy won't likely to sit near Reapers fleet for long. Even so, the action on all organisms (since Thanoptis didn't specify about who she was talking) takes nearly same amount of time, so if someone is indoctrinated while being on Normandy, all crew will be affected. Conclusion nb.4 - if squadmate spends all time with Shepard, s/he is safe.

So who are our candidates?

- Anderson from his own stupidity

- Wrex/Wreav since he isn't permanent and Tuchanka is under attack

- any other ex squadmate who was unlucky enough and got trapped in zone under Reapers attack. Note (about huskification, not indoctrination, but still) - Samara/Morinth as Banshee... do not want to fight that.

[Dean_the_Young]

AwesomeName wrote...

Didn't Sovereign corrupt the heretic Geth?

No.

Many say the Geth chose to side with Sovereign, but I got the impression from Legion that the heretics were manipulated (possibly indoctrinated) and thus believed they were freely joining Sovereign...

Legion specifically denies that the Heretics were forced when Shepard can ask that. Legion makes a deliberate analogy to math in order to clarify that both the True Geth and Heretics are both 'right' by their own logic. (1 + 1 =2, vs. 1 + 2 = 3)


The only means to 'corrupt' the Geth associated with the Reapers was developed by the Heretics nearly two years after Sovereign's death.