No, they do not. they are actually highly dependent on radiant heat which requires no medium. The medium (atmosphere) is primarily needed for the overpressure wave, not the heat blast.Arijharn wrote...
But nukes need a transfer medium for heat to work.
Modifié par SandTrout, 04 novembre 2011 - 03:33 .
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Minor caveat.onelifecrisis wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Regardless, it shouldn't be taken overly literally either. We can tell from ME1 that Sovereign was being worn down by the Alliance fleet bombarding it: otherwise, it wouldn't have needed to possess the Saren corpse in order to hasten the takeover of the Citadel, when Vigil's data file was always a temporary roadblock.
That makes sense, though I'm not sure what difference it really makes. So a fleet (a whole fleet, mind you) can maybe wear down a single reaper's shields, given enough time. So what? It might as well be impervious for all the difference that makes.
It's implied there's been some serious up-gunning in technology between ME1 and ME3. Thannix's are mass-applicable, giving even a fighter the firepower of a Cruiser at range. New shield and new armor technologies. Etc.
ERm.... two points:
1) It's not stated explicitly that fighters get firepower of a cruiser. It said it can be mounted ona fighter, but it's redicolous to believe a fgirage, cruiser and fighter version fo the Thanix will have the same power.
Take a look at Normandy Mk2 - the thanix mounted on it gave it the firepower of a cruiser. (note that a un-upgraded Normandy can still take out the collector cruiser with 4-5 shots from it's regular guns...The Collector Cruiser is NOT IMPRESSIVE.)
You really think a fighter can carry the same gun? That it's core can generate the same amount of power?
2) All ships retrofitted with Thanix cannon? Since when?
Modifié par chaosomegas, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:57 .
chaosomegas wrote...
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Minor caveat.onelifecrisis wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Regardless, it shouldn't be taken overly literally either. We can tell from ME1 that Sovereign was being worn down by the Alliance fleet bombarding it: otherwise, it wouldn't have needed to possess the Saren corpse in order to hasten the takeover of the Citadel, when Vigil's data file was always a temporary roadblock.
That makes sense, though I'm not sure what difference it really makes. So a fleet (a whole fleet, mind you) can maybe wear down a single reaper's shields, given enough time. So what? It might as well be impervious for all the difference that makes.
It's implied there's been some serious up-gunning in technology between ME1 and ME3. Thannix's are mass-applicable, giving even a fighter the firepower of a Cruiser at range. New shield and new armor technologies. Etc.
ERm.... two points:
1) It's not stated explicitly that fighters get firepower of a cruiser. It said it can be mounted ona fighter, but it's redicolous to believe a fgirage, cruiser and fighter version fo the Thanix will have the same power.
Take a look at Normandy Mk2 - the thanix mounted on it gave it the firepower of a cruiser. (note that a un-upgraded Normandy can still take out the collector cruiser with 4-5 shots from it's regular guns...The Collector Cruiser is NOT IMPRESSIVE.)
You really think a fighter can carry the same gun? That it's core can generate the same amount of power?
2) All ships retrofitted with Thanix cannon? Since when?
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Diagreee all you want, the devs confirmed Sovereing - even without the avatar - would have been brought down. Of course, with MUCH higher losses.
111987 wrote...
Nashiktal wrote...
111987 wrote...
Nashiktal wrote...
Wait you are relying on reapers being in the city when you nuke it? What if the reapers strike from orbit? Even with directionally charged nukes that really dampens the power to bear against the reapers. You also have to deal with reaper fighters tying up your own, (occuli) so you can't overly rely on fighters to deliver the payload.
Planet-side, nukes would be devastating against the Reapers.
If they remain in orbit and in space, nukes become less useful, but still a viable option. The head from radiation should be intense enough to fry the Reaper's electronics, if not melt the hull entirely. As for Occuli; no plan is perfect. But Reapers are just too large to be entirely protected from fighters. And you only need one fighter to get throughto release its payload.
You are also assuming that nukes will be able to fry the electronics. What if they are shielded? Space is chock full of radiation in space and for creatures as old and traveled as reapers you have to assume they have some sort of defense against it.
In space, the blast of the nuke still generates heat, light, and expels radiation. The heat generated is as hot, if not hotter than the core of a star. I'm pretty sure that's hot enough to melt a Reaper hull at close range.
Modifié par Nashiktal, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:59 .
Belisarius09 wrote...
keep in mind at the battle of the citadel the ships attacking soveriegn were cruiser class or smaller. there were no dreadnoughts firing at him. also the alliance fifth fleet was splitting its firepower between two tasks, soveriegn being 1, and the geth fleet itself remained a threat and couldn't be ignored being 2.onelifecrisis wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Regardless, it shouldn't be taken overly literally either. We can tell from ME1 that Sovereign was being worn down by the Alliance fleet bombarding it: otherwise, it wouldn't have needed to possess the Saren corpse in order to hasten the takeover of the Citadel, when Vigil's data file was always a temporary roadblock.
That makes sense, though I'm not sure what difference it really makes. So a fleet (a whole fleet, mind you) can maybe wear down a single reaper's shields, given enough time. So what? It might as well be impervious for all the difference that makes.
I was under the impression that the miscommunication was that the fleet's cruisers were using a Dreadnaught model, resulting in requiring a down-scale of the models.Nashiktal wrote...
You should also keep in mind that all those cruisers WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DREADNOUGHTS. The only reason all those ships were cruisers was a miscommunication between modellers and writers. The alliance fifth fleet were supposed to be using all the dreads the alliance was allowed to have against the reaper.
That is the case, although I'm not sure if they downscaled the models. Those cruisers seemed about half of Sovereign's length, which is what a dreadnought should be sized to compared to a Reaper. 1km vs. 2km and all.SandTrout wrote...
I was under the impression that the miscommunication was that the fleet's cruisers were using a Dreadnaught model, resulting in requiring a down-scale of the models.Nashiktal wrote...
You should also keep in mind that all those cruisers WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DREADNOUGHTS. The only reason all those ships were cruisers was a miscommunication between modellers and writers. The alliance fifth fleet were supposed to be using all the dreads the alliance was allowed to have against the reaper.
The Interloper wrote...
A lot of this is pointless speculation on a plot we haven't seen yet.
keep in mind at time we under the rules of Treaty of Farixen when it come to dreadnoughts said rule are.SandTrout wrote...
I was under the impression that the miscommunication was that the fleet's cruisers were using a Dreadnaught model, resulting in requiring a down-scale of the models.Nashiktal wrote...
You should also keep in mind that all those cruisers WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DREADNOUGHTS. The only reason all those ships were cruisers was a miscommunication between modellers and writers. The alliance fifth fleet were supposed to be using all the dreads the alliance was allowed to have against the reaper.
Nashiktal wrote...
111987 wrote...
Nashiktal wrote...
111987 wrote...
Nashiktal wrote...
Wait you are relying on reapers being in the city when you nuke it? What if the reapers strike from orbit? Even with directionally charged nukes that really dampens the power to bear against the reapers. You also have to deal with reaper fighters tying up your own, (occuli) so you can't overly rely on fighters to deliver the payload.
Planet-side, nukes would be devastating against the Reapers.
If they remain in orbit and in space, nukes become less useful, but still a viable option. The head from radiation should be intense enough to fry the Reaper's electronics, if not melt the hull entirely. As for Occuli; no plan is perfect. But Reapers are just too large to be entirely protected from fighters. And you only need one fighter to get throughto release its payload.
You are also assuming that nukes will be able to fry the electronics. What if they are shielded? Space is chock full of radiation in space and for creatures as old and traveled as reapers you have to assume they have some sort of defense against it.
In space, the blast of the nuke still generates heat, light, and expels radiation. The heat generated is as hot, if not hotter than the core of a star. I'm pretty sure that's hot enough to melt a Reaper hull at close range.
We are also talking about a race of machine gods that can manipulate stars, apparently with dark energy. (or was it they manipulated stars to make dark energy? Point is reapers can and have manipulate suns. )
You're close to right. Killing Sov.'s avatar seems to have caused it to drop it's barriers. Once those barriers were down, said torpedo was, as you point out, quite effective indeed. The lesson to take away from this is that, deprived of thier barriers, Reapers aren't that tough. So, with weapons that overwhelm, nullify, or circumvent those barriers, we stand a very good chance indeed against the Reapers.Nashiktal wrote...
Said torpedo was only effective after sovvy's pawn was crushed. Up to that point the reaper was taking everything the fleet was throwing at them with no problem, and as we have seen in preview even small reapers are mostly impervious to damage from bombardment.
'd! Cheers chaosomegas !To misquote Malcolm Reynolds: We start fighting a war. I guarantee they'll see something new.Nashiktal wrote...
My point about the star was to once again illustrate how advance a species we are fighting here. We arn't just fighting some idiots here, we are fighting ancient god machines that have witnessed countless civilizations and everything they did, god machines that have created all sorts of technological wonders that severely damage our troops with little effort on their part.
If simple nukes could defeat the reapers it would have happened long ago. In fact I bet the reapers have already encountered such attacks and have created countermeasures.
Modifié par General User, 04 novembre 2011 - 09:21 .
Nashiktal wrote...
Said torpedo was only effective after sovvy's pawn was crushed. Up to that point the reaper was taking everything the fleet was throwing at them with no problem, and as we have seen in preview even small reapers are mostly impervious to damage from bombardment.
My point about the star was to once again illustrate how advance a species we are fighting here. We arn't just fighting some idiots here, we are fighting ancient god machines that have witnessed countless civilizations and everything they did, god machines that have created all sorts of technological wonders that severely damage our troops with little effort on their part.
If simple nukes could defeat the reapers it would have happened long ago. In fact I bet the reapers have already encountered such attacks and have created countermeasures.
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.
Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 04 novembre 2011 - 09:50 .
Ship mobility dominates space combat; the primary objective is to align the mass accelerator along the bow with the opposing vessel's broadside. Battles typically play out as artillery duels fought at ranges measured in thousands of kilometers, though assault through defended mass relays often occur at "knife fight" ranges as close as a few dozen kilometers. i know newton law. but the General Tactics for space combat areRyuujinZERO wrote...
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.
Soldier - What is Newtons first law!?
(And no credit for partial answers maggot)
Screw it... I'll tell you - An object in motion stays in motion until acted on by an outside force. Range doesn't mean jack squat in the vacuum of space; a projectile fired from 10 metres, 10 kilometres or 10 light years is going to crater your face exactly the same way
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
While that is true, it should be noted that the Thanix Cannon itself is not a simple projectile weapon.RyuujinZERO wrote...
Soldier - What is Newtons first law!?
(And no credit for partial answers maggot)
Screw it... I'll tell you - An object in motion stays in motion until acted on by an outside force. Range doesn't mean jack squat in the vacuum of space; a projectile fired from 10 metres, 10 kilometres or 10 light years is going to crater your face exactly the same way
Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 04 novembre 2011 - 10:26 .
iOnlySignIn wrote...
While that is true, it should be noted that the Thanix Cannon itself is not a simple projectile weapon.RyuujinZERO wrote...
Soldier - What is Newtons first law!?
(And no credit for partial answers maggot)
Screw it... I'll tell you - An object in motion stays in motion until acted on by an outside force. Range doesn't mean jack squat in the vacuum of space; a projectile fired from 10 metres, 10 kilometres or 10 light years is going to crater your face exactly the same way
It fires a stream of "superheated plasma". And since the vaccuum has close to absolute zero temperature, I'd imagine that stream of plasma cools down during its travel to the target, reducing its effectiveness. If you cool a plasma down sufficiently, the electrons are recaptured by the cations and it reverts back to normal non-plasma matter (liquid metal in the case of the Thanix Cannon).
So Shepard was not being stupid when she/he ordered "Get in close and finish them off" during their final confrontation with the Collector Ship. She/he just have an understanding of the workings of the Thanix Cannon.
Also, no matter what ranged weapon you use, getting closer to the target always increases your accuracy. You are more likely to hit critical parts of the target.
Modifié par DiebytheSword, 04 novembre 2011 - 10:35 .
In space, range matters in the sense that it's easy to get to distances in which light-speed lag occurs. Force might be the same, but probability to hit isn't.RyuujinZERO wrote...
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.
Soldier - What is Newtons first law!?
(And no credit for partial answers maggot)
Screw it... I'll tell you - An object in motion stays in motion until acted on by an outside force. Range doesn't mean jack squat in the vacuum of space; a projectile fired from 10 metres, 10 kilometres or 10 light years is going to crater your face exactly the same way
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
^ Vacuum has near zero heat capacity, yes.DiebytheSword wrote...
True, but total vaccum is itself insulating since there is no medium for the heat to escape to but the transformation of heat into light. Thus, the cool down would not be as dramatic as you propose, even though I would agree, there would be some heat bleed off.
I always felt that the order to "get in close" was better serving the Normandy's manuverability than the collector's cruiser sized vessel. The SR2 is large, but still much smaller and more nimble than a cruiser by a long shot, even being able to outmanuver the occulous fighters on some occasions in Joker's capable hands.
Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 04 novembre 2011 - 10:47 .
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