203 réponses à ce sujet

[chaosomegas]

closer you to your target the less time it has move out of your shot path. that why shep order joker to get closer so Ship mobility dominates space combat

Modifié par chaosomegas, 04 novembre 2011 - 10:49 .

[111987]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

111987 wrote...

The Thanix Cannon is plasma?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Normandy_Weapon_Upgrade:_Thanix_Magnetic-Hydrodynamic_Weapon

The jet shines blue, despite redshifting due to its relativistic speed. That means its hotter than mere liquid metal.

I always thought that was just a visual effect. After all, even the Reaper weapons shine red. Though I admit I know very little about this topic.

[General User]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

111987 wrote...

The Thanix Cannon is plasma?

http://masseffect.wi...odynamic_Weapon

The jet shines blue, despite redshifting due to its relativistic speed. That means its hotter than mere liquid metal.

Also, if the metal atoms in it are not ionized, there would be no point in using electromagnetic fields to guide them.

That, for me, qualifies it as a (kind of) plasma.

Have I told you lately how much I like you?

[DiebytheSword]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

True, but total vaccum is itself insulating since there is no medium for the heat to escape to but the transformation of heat into light.  Thus, the cool down would not be as dramatic as you propose, even though I would agree, there would be some heat bleed off.

I always felt that the order to "get in close" was better serving the Normandy's manuverability than the collector's cruiser sized vessel.  The SR2 is large, but still much smaller and more nimble than a cruiser by a long shot, even being able to outmanuver the occulous fighters on some occasions in Joker's capable hands.

^ Vacuum has near zero heat capacity, yes. 

But especially energetic ions/electrons in the plasma jet can escape vertically (vertical to the trajectory of the plasma jet) into the vaccum. Not matter how strong a electromagnetic field you use to contain the plasma jet, such escapes will always happen because of random fluctuations within the plasma itself. Some ions/electrons will always be randomly bumped above escape velocity. That reduces both the impact force as well as the temperature of the plasma jet that hits the intended target.

Also I agree - the closer you get to an object (that has less speed than you) the easier it is for you to outmaneuver it, because you can achieve a higher angular velocity.

It should also be noted that in the two examples where we see the Normandy fires its main gun (at the Citadel in ME1 and at the Collector Base in ME2), the surrounding space is hardly pure vacuum. The amount of gas/debris resulting from the battle alone would be enough to slow projectile weapons in a dogfight.

It sounds like we mostly agree, the Thanix cannon wouldn't have unlimited range and effectiveness.  I just wanted to point out that heat bleed into vaccum is not the same as it is in an atmosphere or through any medium (such as stellar dust).  Either way, well put!

[Subferro]

111987 wrote...

If the Reapers are in space, how are you going to get the fighters close enough to release their payloads? You have to deal with the Occuli, the Reaper's Thanix Cannons, and possibly a Reaper version of GARDIAN lasers (assuming they have those).

If enough nukes and fighters to carry them can be created, it would be a fairly effective tactic. More effective than any options we currently have.

People keep bringing up the problem of getting the nukes close enough to the Reapers. I don't get it, if them dodging conventional weapons isn't an issue, why are we worried that they can dodge nuclear weapons?

Is there some unwritten rule that nukes have to move slowly?

[111987]

Subferro wrote...

111987 wrote...

If the Reapers are in space, how are you going to get the fighters close enough to release their payloads? You have to deal with the Occuli, the Reaper's Thanix Cannons, and possibly a Reaper version of GARDIAN lasers (assuming they have those).

If enough nukes and fighters to carry them can be created, it would be a fairly effective tactic. More effective than any options we currently have.

People keep bringing up the problem of getting the nukes close enough to the Reapers. I don't get it, if them dodging conventional weapons isn't an issue, why are we worried that they can dodge nuclear weapons?

Is there some unwritten rule that nukes have to move slowly?

I share your confusion. If disruptor torpedos can hit Reapers, than so can nukes.

Modifié par 111987, 04 novembre 2011 - 11:46 .

[onelifecrisis]

Honestly I think people are making a bit much of the Thanix Cannon. The Normandy still f*cks up the Collector ship pretty good even without it.

[111987]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Honestly I think people are making a bit much of the Thanix Cannon. The Normandy still f*cks up the Collector ship pretty good even without it.

The Normandy also unleashed 4-5 Javelin missiles at it at close range, which is equivalent to 8-10+ disruptor torpedos. Disruptor torpedos can take out a cruiser in a single shot as seen in the Battle of the Citadel.

The Thanix is a very powerful gun, and if installed on large amounts of fighters/frigates, they're certainly capable of wearing down a Reaper's shields.

[Nashiktal]

The collector cruiser is also obviously not as tough as an actual reaper. Unless the cruiser didn't have barriers or something when it was attacked.

[DiebytheSword]

Thanix is often both oversold and underappreciated. Its a powerful weapon with several advantages as shown by both Sovereign and the SR2, but it is also not going to be the game changer for the war effort against the reapers, it is still just their technology, and the Turians have effectively worked themselves further into the Reaper's trap by developing weapons from Reaper technology. I have a hard time believing that the Reapers would not be prepared for this turn of events, especially when Sovereign isn't the first destroyed Reaper. Vigil makes me think that there may have been more than just the derilict as well when he states that they can be defeated if they aren't careful.

[111987]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Thanix is often both oversold and underappreciated. Its a powerful weapon with several advantages as shown by both Sovereign and the SR2, but it is also not going to be the game changer for the war effort against the reapers, it is still just their technology, and the Turians have effectively worked themselves further into the Reaper's trap by developing weapons from Reaper technology. I have a hard time believing that the Reapers would not be prepared for this turn of events, especially when Sovereign isn't the first destroyed Reaper. Vigil makes me think that there may have been more than just the derilict as well when he states that they can be defeated if they aren't careful.

I have to disagree. There's no way the Reapers could account for Sovereign failing, and it's weapons being reverse-engineered. As far as we know, this is the first time in the Reaper's history the Citadel plan failed.

Even if other Reapers have been destroyed in past cycles, by then the reverse-engineered weapons would be very limited. In this cycle though, at least the Turian military will have a large portion of their fleet outfitted with Thanix Cannons.

[billy the squid]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Thanix is often both oversold and underappreciated. Its a powerful weapon with several advantages as shown by both Sovereign and the SR2, but it is also not going to be the game changer for the war effort against the reapers, it is still just their technology, and the Turians have effectively worked themselves further into the Reaper's trap by developing weapons from Reaper technology. I have a hard time believing that the Reapers would not be prepared for this turn of events, especially when Sovereign isn't the first destroyed Reaper. Vigil makes me think that there may have been more than just the derilict as well when he states that they can be defeated if they aren't careful.

I would think thatis part of the reason that the Reapers leave a vanguard behind, to prevent civilisations advancing down a different path or too far making the species a threat. The Reapers are not imprevious to there own weaponry, the mass accelerator weapon which crippled the derelict Reaper proves that even "basic" mass effect technology can damage them. The technology from Sovreign is, I believe beyond what the citadel species had developed, so it leads me to think that Reapers possess technology more advanced than what we have encountered so far as such it is true that the Thanix cannon may provemore effective against the Reapers would have expected, but I don't think the Reapers themselves would be incapable of implementing counter measures.

Modifié par billy the squid, 05 novembre 2011 - 01:24 .

[onelifecrisis]

Nashiktal wrote...

The collector cruiser is also obviously not as tough as an actual reaper. Unless the cruiser didn't have barriers or something when it was attacked.

I didn't mean to imply that we can defeat reapers without the Thanix; I meant to imply that we can't defeat them even with it. It's not that awesome.

The near-indestructability of the reapers is a point has been hammered home by BW over and over, not only in ME1+2 but also in the ME3 footage we've seen so far.

[Dragoonlordz]

I don't mind really how they are defeated as long as it isn't something as dumb as press a big red button or silly land on ship run to core plant bomb nonsense. I will also be dissapointed if just some measly virus uploaded. So as long as they stay a million miles away from that lack of quality endings then I will see the game to the end. If it has such an ending as described or even looks like will then the game will be resold before I even push the big red button etc. My guess is still placed on imploding sun or planet to kill them in the end and rest run away due to such big losses.

P.s. If plan is to implant Shepard or Legion or any crew member including EDI into a Reaper AI core and he destroys them that way I will find that also unacceptable personally. Well maybe not unacceptable but more along lines of tacky.

As for whether immune to weapon x or y... I don't think will be immune to any such thing more along lines os so little damage be like a gnat bite. I would also find kill one rest die very tacky, along same lines of chain reaction of one dying. In fact I do not even want some singular one vs one end boss fight at all.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 novembre 2011 - 02:13 .

[Blacklash93]

From the leaked beta. Right before the ship explodes and knocks Shepard off the building.

"They're gonna take down the dreadnaught!"

Guess that ship was a dreadnaught like Jesse said.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 05 novembre 2011 - 02:15 .

[chaosomegas]

reaper have underestimated everyone this first time in reapers history they have fight the whole galaxy with our leaders alive plus we study their main guns and destroyed vanguard,made them fly back from dark space hard way. reapers have work harder to win this one. in combat never underestimate our enemy. shep knows this but does the reapers?

[Anacronian Stryx]

chaosomegas wrote...

reaper have underestimated everyone this first time in reapers history they have fight the whole galaxy with our leaders alive plus we study their main guns and destroyed vanguard,made them fly back from dark space hard way. reapers have work harder to win this one. in combat never underestimate our enemy. shep knows this but does the reapers?

I think the much more important point is that it's probably the first time the reapers have to fight without complete control of the mass relay system, Not being able to isolate the races is a huge disadvantage.

[Someone With Mass]

Blacklash93 wrote...

From the leaked beta. Right before the ship explodes and knocks Shepard off the building.

"They're gonna take down the dreadnaught!"

Guess that ship was a dreadnaught like Jesse said.

Two shots compared to the one shot it took Sovereign to take out the cruisers, then. Which didn't come from its main gun either.

The odds aren't exactly in our favor on that one.

[chaosomegas]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...

reaper have underestimated everyone this first time in reapers history they have fight the whole galaxy with our leaders alive plus we study their main guns and destroyed vanguard,made them fly back from dark space hard way. reapers have work harder to win this one. in combat never underestimate our enemy. shep knows this but does the reapers?

I think the much more important point is that it's probably the first time the reapers have to fight without complete control of the mass relay system, Not being able to isolate the races is a huge disadvantage.

yes so this is not a un-win-able war

[111987]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

From the leaked beta. Right before the ship explodes and knocks Shepard off the building.

"They're gonna take down the dreadnaught!"

Guess that ship was a dreadnaught like Jesse said.

Two shots compared to the one shot it took Sovereign to take out the cruisers, then. Which didn't come from its main gun either.

The odds aren't exactly in our favor on that one.

Actually that scene doesn't tell us much. The Reaper will keep firing at the ship until the player walks to that specific location where he/she will then fall.

[Blacklash93]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...

reaper have underestimated everyone this first time in reapers history they have fight the whole galaxy with our leaders alive plus we study their main guns and destroyed vanguard,made them fly back from dark space hard way. reapers have work harder to win this one. in combat never underestimate our enemy. shep knows this but does the reapers?

I think the much more important point is that it's probably the first time the reapers have to fight without complete control of the mass relay system, Not being able to isolate the races is a huge disadvantage.

The Reapers are still incredibly powerful and outmatch the entire galaxy by no contest when it comes to... everything. Their firepower can rip through anything like butter. Their shielding can withstand entire fleets. They're the fastest and most manuverable ships of their size. They're much more intelligent and coordinated.