203 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

111987 wrote...

Actually that scene doesn't tell us much. The Reaper will keep firing at the ship until the player walks to that specific location where he/she will then fall.

True, that struggle could go on for hours if you wanted it to. But at the end of the day that scene is meant to be a short exchange.

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

The Reapers are still incredibly powerful and outmatch the entire galaxy by no contest when it comes to... everything. Their firepower can rip through anything like butter. Their shielding can withstand entire fleets. They're the fastest and most manuverable ships of their size. They're much more intelligent and coordinated.

They also don't really need to defend anything. All they have to do is kill kill kill kill KILL.

I agree, I think we have to find some location the Reapers have to defend in order to prevent them from just FTL'ing away as soon as our galactic fleet shows up. Something like the Citadel, or the Citadel's sister relay in dark space.

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

I agree, I think we have to find some location the Reapers have to defend in order to prevent them from just FTL'ing away as soon as our galactic fleet shows up. Something like the Citadel, or the Citadel's sister relay in dark space.

Why would they need to defend either of those locations? We need to defend the Citadel more than they do. If we lose it the war is pretty much over. The Reapers would probably like to have it, but they can get by without it.

Their entire plan is based on those two relays. You don't think they'd fight to defend what allows them instant access to the galaxy?

You could argue that they could just rebuild those things, but no faction in war allows the other side to destroy their most important location without a fight. Especially when you factor the arrogance of the Reapers.

[N0-Future]

Just out of curiosity, but do we know if the Reaper capital ship use the same kind of defences as out capital ships? Kinetic barriers and armour ect?
Are they the same as council races just improved or are they different altogther?

Modifié par N0-Future, 05 novembre 2011 - 03:52 .

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...


Their entire plan is based on those two relays. You don't think they'd fight to defend what allows them instant access to the galaxy?

No, because if we are fighting them they've already used the relays. If we destroy them they can just rebuild them. You can bet that after the war is over the Reapers will be retooling their trap.

111987 wrote...

You could argue that they could just rebuild those things, but no faction in war allows the other side to destroy their most important location without a fight. Especially when you factor the arrogance of the Reapers.

No, you defend what you need but not at the expense of the entire war. Defending those relays is not worth it because they don't help in the war any.

Why assume that the Reapers are arrogant? What if they aren't? I hope you aren't counting on the Reapers making stupid mistakes to win this.

I meant their future plans are based those relays. Destroying the dark space relay and/or the citadel would force them to fly back out to dark space the traditional way, and then begin constructing their new relay. Obviously this is something they would prefer to avoid, as we saw that they were angry that they had to fly to the galaxy normally in the first place. Plus, there are no resources out in dark space, so overall it would be a severe inconvenience for them, one they would try to avoid. Logically, it makes sense to avoid losing the citadel and its twin.

Defending it wouldn't be at the entire expense of the war. They can always retreat, but they will take some casualties first.

[Lotion Soronarr]

onelifecrisis wrote...

@Lotion

I've seen you correcting people here and there on various facts in the last few pages, but if you gave an overall opinion then I missed it. I'm curious to know what do you think of the idea of the galaxy taking on the reapers using conventional warfare in ME3?

I don't see it working. Reapers have far too many advantages (logistical, strategic) that go beyond just technology.

[Lotion Soronarr]

111987 wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.

Plus, Javelin missiles aren't some weak weapon. Each Javelin has 2+ disruptor torpedoes. So it took about 8-10 disruptor torpedoes to bring down the Collector Cruiser at point-blank range. Keep in mind at the Battle of the Citadel, it only took a single disruptor torpedo to bring down a cruiser.

Also at Lotion; perhaps you are right about the drive core. But how do we know that the Normandy's Thanix Cannon isn't more powerful than a cruiser; after all, it its eezo core is twice the normal size. So fighters and frigates perhaps are as powerful as a cruiser, and the Normandy is even more powerful, perhaps even twice as powerful.

1. If you think retroffiting warship is easy, cheap and simple, then you are out of touch with reality. It's expensive and it takes quite a lot of time.

8-10 disruptor torpedos? Where do you get that numberr from? Torpedos were never fired at the Collector cruiser.

And yes, we do know. After all, the Normandy is a frigate and the thanix cannon was not that impressive against the Collectors. As I said again - a completley unapgraded Normady can take it out with just 5 shots (and you can bet those guns arne't nearly as powerfull as cruiser ones. For onc, they are only a fraction of the length, and the power depends on length.).
Besides, it makes no sense for fighters to be abel to generate that amount of power.

[chaosomegas]

Saphra Deden wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...

reaper have underestimated everyone this first time in reapers history they have fight the whole galaxy with our leaders alive plus we study their main guns and destroyed vanguard,made them fly back from dark space hard way. reapers have work harder to win this one. in combat never underestimate our enemy. shep knows this but does the reapers?

I think the much more important point is that it's probably the first time the reapers have to fight without complete control of the mass relay system, Not being able to isolate the races is a huge disadvantage.

yes so this is not a un-win-able war

That is not nearly enough to make this war winnable. It merely prolongs the inevitable.

we shouldn't be this far if all was going to plan. said plan work many but this one. there always a way to win. no one unbeatable. human history prove this many times

[chaosomegas]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.

Plus, Javelin missiles aren't some weak weapon. Each Javelin has 2+ disruptor torpedoes. So it took about 8-10 disruptor torpedoes to bring down the Collector Cruiser at point-blank range. Keep in mind at the Battle of the Citadel, it only took a single disruptor torpedo to bring down a cruiser.

Also at Lotion; perhaps you are right about the drive core. But how do we know that the Normandy's Thanix Cannon isn't more powerful than a cruiser; after all, it its eezo core is twice the normal size. So fighters and frigates perhaps are as powerful as a cruiser, and the Normandy is even more powerful, perhaps even twice as powerful.

1. If you think retroffiting warship is easy, cheap and simple, then you are out of touch with reality. It's expensive and it takes quite a lot of time.

8-10 disruptor torpedos? Where do you get that numberr from? Torpedos were never fired at the Collector cruiser.

And yes, we do know. After all, the Normandy is a frigate and the thanix cannon was not that impressive against the Collectors. As I said again - a completley unapgraded Normady can take it out with just 5 shots (and you can bet those guns arne't nearly as powerfull as cruiser ones. For onc, they are only a fraction of the length, and the power depends on length.).
Besides, it makes no sense for fighters to be abel to generate that amount of power.

The Javelin is an experimental close-assault weapon fitted on a handful of newer Alliance warships. It consists of a "rack" of two or more disposable disruptor torpedo tubes bolted or magnetically "slung" on to a ship’s exterior armored hull. The torpedoes are fired on converging trajectories, and detonate in a precisely timed sequence that allows the dark energy emitted by their warheads to resonate and thereby magnify the resulting space-time warp effects. Like fighter launched torpedoes, Javelins are "cold-launched" for safety reasons, though they use a different approach. Resembling old-fashioned submarine torpedo tubes, Javelin torpedoes come packed in individual sealed tubes filled with compressed, inert gas. Opening the front of the tube causes escaping gases to push the torpedo into the vacuum, releasing a puff of crystals around the mouth of the tube. After completely clearing the tube, the torpedo ignites its thrusters. Javelin mounts are most often fitted on swift frigates, which expect to enter "knife fight" torpedo ranges as a matter of course. Javelins may also be fitted on heavier ships during short range engagements, such as trans-relay assaults. They are particularly useful in this role for dreadnoughts, which cannot lay their main guns on close-range targets. As missile weapons, Javelins are subject to highly accurate defensive GARDIAN fire. They must be launched in large numbers and at short range to have any chance of hitting their target at all. everything cost money government have rearm ships millions time over. most space port can rearm a warship. at war time more money handed over armed forces to win the war.

[Nizzemancer]

If the reaper was impervious to dreadnought-fire then why did sovereign need to go get backup? They can be destroyed using ordinary armament, they are just highly resistant to it.

[Blacklash93]

Nizzemancer wrote...

If the reaper was impervious to dreadnought-fire then why did sovereign need to go get backup? They can be destroyed using ordinary armament, they are just highly resistant to it.

Sovereign needed a distraction so it could sneak into the arms of the Citadel during the fight with no trouble. That's all the Geth were for.

[Nizzemancer]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

If the reaper was impervious to dreadnought-fire then why did sovereign need to go get backup? They can be destroyed using ordinary armament, they are just highly resistant to it.

Saying they are impervious is just a simplification. In any practical engagement nobody would be able to hurt Sovereign. The reason they were able to in Mass Effect is because it was sitting there for a while unable to even attempt to evade. Another possibility is that what killed it was Shepard destroying the avatar.

In a more conventional battle a fleet would be hard-pressed to take Sovereign down because in addition to be very damage resistant it would be able to evade the more powerful shots.

If it were impervious to our weapons it wouldn't need to evade anything...

Reapers are very much killable, they just have extreme kinetic barriers, when shepard beat "saren von husk" the reaper obviously had a moment of overload on it's systems the kinetic barriers went down and our weapons started to really hurt, as seen by the normandy blowing a hole straight trough it all of a sudden...

[Nizzemancer]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

If the reaper was impervious to dreadnought-fire then why did sovereign need to go get backup? They can be destroyed using ordinary armament, they are just highly resistant to it.

Sovereign needed a distraction so it could sneak into the arms of the Citadel during the fight with no trouble. That's all the Geth were for.

I wasn't talking about the geth. If we couldn't touch Sovereign because of him being impervious to our weapons then there would be no need to call in the other reapers, he would be able to clense the galaxy himself if that were the case.

Ergo: Reapers aren't impervious to our weapons.

[Blacklash93]

I honestly don't see how we can win. The Reapers are at an immensely steep advantage and are winning in every concievable way.

Most, if not all of the Alliance fleet was wiped out effortlessly. Batarians are already Reaper-chow. It was confirmed in the leaked beta that the Turians are almost defeated so most of their fleet must already be gone.

That leaves the Asari and Salarians as the only remotely formidable navies left and they alone don't stand a chance against the Reapers.

[chaosomegas]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I honestly don't see how we can win. The Reapers are at an immensely steep advantage and are winning in every concievable way.

Most, if not all of the Alliance fleet was wiped out effortlessly. Batarians are already Reaper-chow. It was confirmed in the leaked beta that the Turians are almost defeated so most of their fleet must already be gone.

That leaves the Asari and Salarians as the only remotely formidable navies left and they alone don't stand a chance against the Reapers.

you miss some races(geth,Quarians,Krogan)one race you have save me1(Rachni)

[chaosomegas]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

If the reaper was impervious to dreadnought-fire then why did sovereign need to go get backup? They can be destroyed using ordinary armament, they are just highly resistant to it.

Sovereign needed a distraction so it could sneak into the arms of the Citadel during the fight with no trouble. That's all the Geth were for.

I wasn't talking about the geth. If we couldn't touch Sovereign because of him being impervious to our weapons then there would be no need to call in the other reapers, he would be able to clense the galaxy himself if that were the case.

Ergo: Reapers aren't impervious to our weapons.

that way they sleep in dark space for 50000 so no one finds them.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.

Plus, Javelin missiles aren't some weak weapon. Each Javelin has 2+ disruptor torpedoes. So it took about 8-10 disruptor torpedoes to bring down the Collector Cruiser at point-blank range. Keep in mind at the Battle of the Citadel, it only took a single disruptor torpedo to bring down a cruiser.

Also at Lotion; perhaps you are right about the drive core. But how do we know that the Normandy's Thanix Cannon isn't more powerful than a cruiser; after all, it its eezo core is twice the normal size. So fighters and frigates perhaps are as powerful as a cruiser, and the Normandy is even more powerful, perhaps even twice as powerful.

1. If you think retroffiting warship is easy, cheap and simple, then you are out of touch with reality. It's expensive and it takes quite a lot of time.

8-10 disruptor torpedos? Where do you get that numberr from? Torpedos were never fired at the Collector cruiser.

And yes, we do know. After all, the Normandy is a frigate and the thanix cannon was not that impressive against the Collectors. As I said again - a completley unapgraded Normady can take it out with just 5 shots (and you can bet those guns arne't nearly as powerfull as cruiser ones. For onc, they are only a fraction of the length, and the power depends on length.).
Besides, it makes no sense for fighters to be abel to generate that amount of power.

1. Um I didn't say that. Your borderline personal attacks are unecesarry and inaccurate.

A Javelin missile consists of multiple disruptor torpedos. At the bare minimum, there were 8-10 torpedoes fired at the cruiser. Possibly much more.

Your last point is moot because your point about the firepower of the un-upgraded Normandy is false.

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Do you know what is even more important to their future plans? Their survival. They aren't stupid. It is not worth it to make themselves vulnerable by standing and fighting to defend something of no strategic value in the war. You only want them to do that because it gives you a chance to win... but that's precisely why they won't do it.

Um, no. You aren't looking at it from the the perspective of the Reapers. You are looking at it from the perspective of a person whom already knows the plan and is thus acting accordingly. There is absolutely no way the Reapers would not fight to defend their dark space relay. I'm not saying they'd fight to the death over it, but to suggest they would simply allow us to destroy it is foolish.

Saphra Deden wrote...

How do you think the built it in the first place? How do you think they setup all the relays? Once they've subdued the galaxy they can spend as long as necessary retooling their trap to prevent a repeat.

Like I said, they can rebuild, but why would they if they can simply engage the fleets attacking their relays? We don't know how long it takes to make a Mass Relay, or the amount of material, etc...for all we know, replacing the dark space relay could take years or decades. An AI would logically decide the best solution would be to avoid any more setbacks than they have already faced at the hands of this cycle, and just wipe out the organic fleet.

They aren't omni-potent. They wouldn't magically know we are only attacking their dark space relay to force them to engage us.

[111987]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I honestly don't see how we can win. The Reapers are at an immensely steep advantage and are winning in every concievable way.

Most, if not all of the Alliance fleet was wiped out effortlessly. Batarians are already Reaper-chow. It was confirmed in the leaked beta that the Turians are almost defeated so most of their fleet must already be gone.

That leaves the Asari and Salarians as the only remotely formidable navies left and they alone don't stand a chance against the Reapers.

Wait, where was that in the beta? I thought I had watched the whole thing but I never saw that part.

[chaosomegas]

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

chaosomegas wrote...
4-5 shots at pot blank range vs 2 long range shots. i go with long range shots always.
most races have space ports so rearm warships easy. it cost them money and talk the turians.

Plus, Javelin missiles aren't some weak weapon. Each Javelin has 2+ disruptor torpedoes. So it took about 8-10 disruptor torpedoes to bring down the Collector Cruiser at point-blank range. Keep in mind at the Battle of the Citadel, it only took a single disruptor torpedo to bring down a cruiser.

Also at Lotion; perhaps you are right about the drive core. But how do we know that the Normandy's Thanix Cannon isn't more powerful than a cruiser; after all, it its eezo core is twice the normal size. So fighters and frigates perhaps are as powerful as a cruiser, and the Normandy is even more powerful, perhaps even twice as powerful.

1. If you think retroffiting warship is easy, cheap and simple, then you are out of touch with reality. It's expensive and it takes quite a lot of time.

8-10 disruptor torpedos? Where do you get that numberr from? Torpedos were never fired at the Collector cruiser.

And yes, we do know. After all, the Normandy is a frigate and the thanix cannon was not that impressive against the Collectors. As I said again - a completley unapgraded Normady can take it out with just 5 shots (and you can bet those guns arne't nearly as powerfull as cruiser ones. For onc, they are only a fraction of the length, and the power depends on length.).
Besides, it makes no sense for fighters to be abel to generate that amount of power.

1. Um I didn't say that. Your borderline personal attacks are unecesarry and inaccurate.

A Javelin missile consists of multiple disruptor torpedos. At the bare minimum, there were 8-10 torpedoes fired at the cruiser. Possibly much more.

Your last point is moot because your point about the firepower of the un-upgraded Normandy is false.

i think he aim 1. at me 111987 but thanks

[Blacklash93]

111987 wrote...

Wait, where was that in the beta? I thought I had watched the whole thing but I never saw that part.

Two Salarians are discussing it ambiently in the Sur'Kesh part of the beta. The video that had it has since been taken down, I believe.

It goes something like:

"Did you hear? One of our agents say the Turians won't last much longer. The Reapers have them against the wall."
"The Turians have the thickest fleet in the galaxy - *convo gets cut off by the player initiating a conversation with Kirrahe*"

Edit: Here it is at 8:20

Also Kirrahe says Shepard is building some kind of "super weapon".

Modifié par Blacklash93, 06 novembre 2011 - 02:45 .