556 réponses à ce sujet

[Grommash94]

Signed. Moar pl0x.

[MrJeaz]

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
I would guess that if you romanced Morrigan, did the ritual, and vowed to search for her, then the PC would spend a long time searching for Morrigan and once he eventually finds her she would be absolutely enraged at the PC for coming after her (for whatever reason). They exchange words and eventually come to blows- an all out fight, all the while shouting at each other as they totally expend all their energy fighting each other. Pretty soon though they realize they are just totally spent emotionally and physically and come to a draw. The PC and Morrigan proceed to have wild crazy witch sex right on the spot. Mark it down, thats your reunion right there.

And then the camera pulls back and you see you're in the Fade, and Morrigan is actually a Desire Demon. The player, oblivious, is forever trapped.

Yes, that might work.

You are definitely right that there can't be a happily ever after ending with Morrigan. I do think you are however scheming on building on that story, hopefully as a DLC.
Maybe Flementh returns, wanting the child, forcing Morrigan to seek aid from the only one able to keep Flementh at bay, you. But as I said, I don't see a happy ending here and probably the only way to close this story properly would be that Morrigan dies in the end, or vanishes for good, but with a more proper good bye ;-)

The whole demon thing is kinda cool as well. Morrigan lays out traps to keep PC from finding her, and stumbles into it while searching for her. In the end Morrigan however saves you from it, since she doesn't want you dead, but warns you that she will not help you next time and leaves again.

All in all, I hope you don't use the same PC for DA2. Epic stories like these shouldn't happen twice in a lifetime. DA2 should be alot later, maybe an heir of PC or something, but not the same person. Morrigan could obviously play a part of that game still, since she's not bound by such a silly thing as mortality like the rest.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

I would like to see how that goes. So yes I agree. She may not want you to follow her, but I am curious to see how that would turn out. It feels a bit much like unfinished business.

[MrJeaz]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Morrigan DLC? Nope, wouldn't work, not with the current system they have setup for DLCs ie. taking place BEFORE the final battle

Morrigan expansion? What just for IF you take the ritual? Nope, doubt they would do that unless they confirmed that it is the canon ending... which may happen, but still, can't really see it happening not yet or in the near future anyway and centering it just on going after Morrigan is a bit poor.

Morrigan in a future sequel? Yes, could happen, though I imagine if she is, it'll be set 30 years+ in the future of thedas timeline and thus no recurring Warden chasing after her.

Didn't think I'd agree on a Morrigan topic with Lotion, but hey ho, wonders never cease.

/anti-signed

Well, the technical bit is there. Like DLC Return to Ostagar is supposed to happen years after the final battle. Still too soon to say how it'll work but there is a button at the menu called additional campaigns or something.

[Wompoo]

I just do not see the infatuation with Morrigan, honestly I would rather be stabbed to death with a rusty spoon then sleep with or romance her. As for DA being that epic that the PC couldn't continue his/her story, well BG/BG2 prove that false... the BG series is still miles better then DA, primarily because the PC is central to the story and the npcs treat you as such. In DA you feel like some pointless slab of meat primed and ready for suicide. It lacks closure as evident with Morrigan and with nearly all other aspects of the game. That said, I enjoy the game, but it is lacking, which is a shame.

[Lotion Soronarr]

So...what happens if you didn't take the ritual or didn't romance her?



A DLC that favors only a very narrow and specific playtrough seems like a very bad idea to me.

[Xandurpein]

Morrigan has a great ending as it is. If you have separation anexiety, just reroll a new character and start over.

[Xandurpein]

This just a little piece of fanfic I wrote to myself, when I came around to the view that Morrigan is just great the way she is. I'm not sure it means anything to anybody else, and I apologize to those who don't think it belongs on this thread...



Scene: In camp just outside Ostergard, revisiting the Battlefield when the game is over.



"In a place where many people have died, the border between the real world and the Fade becomes thin and spirits can enter our world easier, or even vice versa..."



(The main character awakes and finds himself in the Fade, and discovers Morrigan there)

Me: Morrigan, is that you?

Morrigan: At least your eyes are working.

Me: Morrigan, I found you at last!

Morrigan: Not really no. This is the Fade so technically I'm just a dream, and the truth is that I found you.

Me: But we are together now, that's what is important!

Morrigan: *Sigh* Again you leap into unfounded conclusions. I'm far way from you. This is the Fade.

Me: but at least we can talk to each other now.

Morrigan: Yes, that is true. I suppose your stubborn inability to face reality makes this necessary, unpleasant though it may be.

Me: Unpleasant? Don't you want to see me gain? I love you and I thought you loved me too.

Morrigan: I suppose this is going to be more unpleasant than I thought.

Me: Why? Why would seeing me be unpleasant?

Morrigan: Isn't it blatantly obvious? It is tue that I... felt strongly for you. More strongly than I have ever felt for anyone. I don't want you to make me regret it.

Me: Why would you regret it?

Morrigan: Why do you think I fell for you in the first place? Of all the beings I have ever met you are the one I truly felt respect for. Even when I disagreed with your vapid notions of compassion, I respected you for your strength and determination. You forged your own destiny. Now you want to deny me the same.

Me: What do you mean?

Morrigan: Did you even listen to me? I told you that this is what I have to do! Just as you had to stop the Blight. What if I had asked you to abandon your quest to save the land from the Blight? Would you have done it? Do you think that I would have respected you if you had done what I asked?

Me: But.. but even you wanted the Blight to be stopped!

Morrigan: that is beside the point. You HAD to stop the Blight, and because of reasons that are my own, I wanted the same. Our mutual interests allowed me to enjoy your company on your quest, and as wonderful as it was, it was only possible because our true goals coincided. Now my goal no longer has room for you. Nothing have changed, except that we can no longer afford the luxury of our companionship.

Me: That is a cold way to describe our time together.

Morrigan: Is it? Is it really? Was being with me truly more important than stopping the Blight? Think carefully on your answer.

Me: But.. but.. the Blight would have killed everything.

Morrigan: Yes. Stopping the Blight was more important. More important than any ridiculous notions of happy ever after in an imaginary shell of insulation. If that was what you wanted you know you should have gone for the little redhead tart instead. You did what you had to, now I must do I what I have too.

Me: But, you won't even tell me what it is you are doing...

Morrigan: I have told you some of it. The rest is not for you to know. It's not cruelty on my part, it's simply the way it has to be.

Me: I still love you Morrigan, I can't just let you go...

Morrigan: The point is you can't "have me" whatever you think or do, I am going to forge my own destiny, just as you forged yours, and my destiny is elsewhere. While I have may have regrets that you are not in it, things remain as they are.

Me: That 's.. that's... cruel

Morrigan: That is what I told you from the start. Didn't you listen at all? Did you think I was just some prize to be won? Struggling to resist your charms, just so your victory became all the sweeter, when you had broken me and I turned into your meek little housekeeper?

Me: I never wanted to break you. I love you the way you are.

Morrigan: Then why do you persist in trying to change me? Why can't you respect what I must do?

Me: So this is really goodbye then?

Morrigan: Yes it is. We had a grand adventure together, but it's over now. Have a good cry if you absolutly must, but after I'm gone please. It would no doubt sicken me. But it's over, and now it's time for a new adventure.

Me: I suppose you are right, but I'll still miss you...

Morrigan: And I'll miss you. Missing you will be so much better than loosing my respect for you, because you want to turn me into something I'm not.

Me: Goodbye then Morrigan, I love you!

Morrigan: I love you too... and one more thing...

Me Yes?

Morrigan: When I said a new adventure, I didn't mean the redhead, ok?

Me: I get it.

Morrigan: good, now I...



(Player wakes up to find Wynne gently poking him)

Wynne: Time to wake up. We have much to do..

Me: I know, I know...

[KariTR]

Hopefully there will be plenty DLC for everyone to enjoy. One based on Morrigan isnt likely to intice me to buy it.

[TrueSailor]

I sign, and endorse the DLC request as the "Happy Ending" Crew og the Guys who wrote here.

Morrigan represents a serious possibility to further expand the conflict between Duty and Love underlined by Wynne ("Love is a selfish feeling"). What if a heroic Grey Warden, who gathered the Races of Ferelden and helped to defeat the Dark Spawn once and for good, decides to go out in search of her True Love, in spite of the common sense. Perhaps to rescue her for the Flemeth's destiny. Saving jher form becoming a true abomination.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

MrJeaz wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Morrigan DLC? Nope, wouldn't work, not with the current system they have setup for DLCs ie. taking place BEFORE the final battle

Morrigan expansion? What just for IF you take the ritual? Nope, doubt they would do that unless they confirmed that it is the canon ending... which may happen, but still, can't really see it happening not yet or in the near future anyway and centering it just on going after Morrigan is a bit poor.

Morrigan in a future sequel? Yes, could happen, though I imagine if she is, it'll be set 30 years+ in the future of thedas timeline and thus no recurring Warden chasing after her.

Didn't think I'd agree on a Morrigan topic with Lotion, but hey ho, wonders never cease.

/anti-signed

Well, the technical bit is there. Like DLC Return to Ostagar is supposed to happen years after the final battle. Still too soon to say how it'll work but there is a button at the menu called additional campaigns or something.

WRONG! If you look at the RtO site we can go do the RtO quest after leaving Lothering so it doesn't take place years after the final battle, besides if it did, a load of people would be pissed off because they would have to create a new post-ep save in which only those wardens whom survived the final battle can access.

Besides if you read what Gaider has put he seems to have NO intention of writing any 'Morrigan' specific expansions or DLC so this topic is null and void and am surprised hasn't been locked yet.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Very good, but decided to do a bit of editting so Morrigan spoke more as she does

Xandurpein wrote...

Scene: In camp just outside Ostergard, revisiting the Battlefield when the game is over.

"In a place where many people have died, the border between the real world and the Fade becomes thin and spirits can enter our world easier, or even vice versa..."

(The main character awakes and finds himself in the Fade, and discovers Morrigan there)
Me: Morrigan, is that you?
Morrigan: Tis good to know that at least your eyes are working.
Me: Morrigan, I found you at last!
Morrigan: Perhaps, but really no. Tis the Fade that we are in, so technically I'm just a dream, and the truth is that I found you.
Me: But we are together now, that's what is important!
Morrigan: *Sigh* Again you leap into unfounded conclusions. I'm far way from you. We are in the Fade.
Me: but at least we can talk to each other now.
Morrigan: Yes, tis true. I suppose your stubborn inability to face reality makes this necessary, unpleasant though it may be.
Me: Unpleasant? Don't you want to see me gain? I love you and I thought you loved me too.
Morrigan: Perhaps, I suppose tis going to be more unpleasant than I thought.
Me: Why? Why would seeing me be unpleasant?
Morrigan: Isn't it blatantly obvious? Tis true that I... felt strongly for you. More strongly than I have ever felt for anyone. I don't want you to make me regret it.
Me: Why would you regret it?
Morrigan: Why do you think I fell for you in the first place? Of all the beings I have ever met you are the one I truly felt respect for. Even when I disagreed with your vapid notions of compassion, I respected you for your strength and determination. You forged your own destiny. Now you want to deny me the same.
Me: What do you mean?
Morrigan: Did you even listen to me? I told you that this is what I have to do! Just as you had to stop the Blight. What if I had asked you to abandon your quest to save the land from the Blight? Would you have done it? Do you think that I would have respected you if you had done what I asked?
Me: But.. but even you wanted the Blight to be stopped!
Morrigan: Tis beside the point. You HAD to stop the Blight, and because of reasons that are my own, I wanted the same. Our mutual interests allowed me to enjoy your company on your quest, and as wonderful as twas, tis only possible because our true goals coincided. Now my goal no longer has room for you. Nothing has changed, except that we can no longer afford the luxury of our companionship.
Me: That is a cold way to describe our time together.
Morrigan: Tis? really? Was being with me truly more important than stopping the Blight? Think carefully on your answer.
Me: But.. but.. the Blight would have killed everything.
Morrigan: Yes. Stopping the Blight was more important. More important than any ridiculous notions of happy ever after in an imaginary shell of insulation. Perhaps if it twas what you wanted you know you should have gone for the little redhead tart instead. You did what you had to, now I must do I what I have too.
Me: But, you won't even tell me what it is you are doing...
Morrigan: I have told you some of it. The rest is not for you to know. Tis not cruelty on my part, tis simply the way it has to be.
Me: I still love you Morrigan, I can't just let you go...
Morrigan: The point is you can't "have me" whatever you think or do, I am going to forge my own destiny, just as you forged yours, and my destiny tis elsewhere. While I have may have regrets that you are not in it, things remain as they are.
Me: That 's.. that's... cruel
Morrigan: Tis what I told you from the start. Didn't you listen at all? Did you think I was just some prize to be won? Struggling to resist your charms, just so your victory became all the sweeter, when you had broken me and I turned into your meek little housekeeper?
Me: I never wanted to break you. I love you the way you are.
Morrigan: Then why do you persist in trying to change me? Why can't you respect what I must do?
Me: So this is really goodbye then?
Morrigan: Yes tis time to say farewell. We had a grand adventure together, but it's over now. Have a good cry if you absolutly must, but after I'm gone please. It would no doubt sicken me. But it's over, and now it's time for a new adventure.
Me: I suppose you are right, but I'll still miss you...
Morrigan: And I'll miss you. Missing you will be so much better than loosing my respect for you, because you want to turn me into something I'm not.
Me: Goodbye then Morrigan, I love you!
Morrigan: I love you too... and one more thing...
Me Yes?
Morrigan: When I said a new adventure, I didn't mean the redhead, ok?
Me: I get it.
Morrigan: good, now I...

(Player wakes up to find Wynne gently poking him)
Wynne: Time to wake up. We have much to do..
Me: I know, I know...

Editted for the tis, twas and perhaps

[AsheraII]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...Besides if you read what Gaider has put he seems to have NO intention of writing any 'Morrigan' specific expansions or DLC so this topic is null and void and am surprised hasn't been locked yet.

He said Morrigans' story would be too big for a DLC. He didn't use the word expansion anywhere. Expansion is a word that all Bioware employees have smartly circumvented since day one.
It's also rather safe to say that Morrigans' story would be too small for a sequel. The child might make for a sequel, but Morrigan would be mostly on the sideline in it.
So for a return of Morrigan, a DLC is too small, a sequel too big. That leaves only something inbetween those two as an opening to see her back, the very thing that no Bioware employee has ever mentioned or commented on.

Anyway, I'm more interrested in what else an expansion might bring. True, Morrigan would be a very welcome piece of content, but I'm more wondering about level caps, NON-Grey Warden origins, dragons, maps, spells & skills & abilities, specializations. The game is named Dragon Age: Origins, not Grey Warden: Origins. So people are definitely too focussed on blights and Grey Wardens. It's a fantasy game, so earth-threatening things can happen every other day. Including, but not limited to, dragon attacks, demons controlling an entire nation, space invaders, permanent rips in the veil, an ice age, an army of intelligent rats, someone might discover how to make an atombomb.. So there´s lots to look out for, and a cameo with Morrigan isn't the biggest one of stories. Even this blight seems rather "small" when you think about what it could've been.

[Sandrax]

Thoughts on Flemmeth: Despite having killed Flemmeth, how does the saying go? "The apple does not fall far from the tree." There is no need to bring a return of Flemmeth; I believe Morrigan will try to live the way her mother had, as that is what she was taught and how she was raised. The child (it might easier if it were female, like Morrigan) may be Morrigan's way of inhabiting the body of an Old God.

If there was a sequel or a DLC, it will probably involve an "Icarus effect" for poor Morrigan (i.e., Like the Greek myth of the same name, with the telltale moral of flying too high and going too far leads to one's tragic undoing). An Old God will probably not be a controllable child for long and its going to backfire on Morrigan and start doing its own things. It may even be partially redeemed and not necessarily demonic, but there is just no way that dealing with that kind of power is going to have predictable results.

Our protaganist will probably be dealing with some problem or another (which is more than likely linked somehow to the situation) when he is contacted by Morrigan for another mutual alliance regarding the issue. Along the way, the Morrigan Romance could pick up, starting off on rocky ground filled with feelings of betrayal, abandonment, etc.. and working its way warmer or explode in a bitter breakup with lies and recriminations.

Its final "closure" will probably have to result in the demise of either the protaganist or Morrigan, unless a STRONG link can be shown that Morrigan somehow assimilates into the companion of a Nobleman (you can tell I played Human ). This is difficult because she is not well integrated into society, nor has the social graces for the job. Also, her magic is outside the Circle, making her a somewhat scandalous character for filling that kind of role. Her fierce independence probably gives her little appetite for servants and luxury, as she is used to doing things herself. If the protganist goes to the Wilds with her in the end, that takes us back to settling down in Flemeth's hut and I think that idea has already been debunked

Ultimately, the Morrigan Romance must conclude in some kind of trajedy. The way she was raised, the values she was instilled, the type of magic she wields and the decisions she has made -- all these things are ingredients for a tragic character.

Modifié par Sandrax, 03 janvier 2010 - 02:13 .

[NiNakaWarrior]

EJon wrote...

(...)
But don't make it where people who romanced her 100% did it for nothing, because not only would that be a great disappointment to the fans, but it wouldn't have any meaning to the ending in the first place. 

My thoughts exactly! I agreed with the other stuff as well, but this is the most important point to me.
I really don't see the point in ending a romance like this if there's no further story.
You live and she is pregnant with your child, you'll never see either of them. It could just be me, but that's not much of a conclusion, is it?

[Obadiah]

Xandurpein wrote...

This just a little piece of fanfic I wrote to myself, when I came around to the view that Morrigan is just great the way she is. I'm not sure it means anything to anybody else, and I apologize to those who don't think it belongs on this thread...

I like it. Same ending as the game (well, one of them), but more closure.

[Kabraxal]

If DLC or an expansion happens, then there MUST be a mix of these types of endings: the happy ending (love's labour won), the bitter-sweet ending (duty over love or such), the tragic love (admitted love but one or both die), the betrayal (one of them is in love, but the other is merely using... having the PC capable of betraying a softened Morrigan would be poignant). It does not have to contain all of them, though if the happy ending is present then the tragic ending must also be present (and vice versa).

Really, if Morigan's story is continued without branching endings then that would severely undermine the nature of the game. This goes for both the happy ending and the tragic love cliches. If either one is present in the DLC and the other is not, then such a continuation is a failure.

EDIT: conditionally signed.  If all that is going to be offered is a single path, I'd rather let the ambiguity remain and my imagination play with the possibilites.

Modifié par Kabraxal, 03 janvier 2010 - 05:00 .

[Barbarossa2010]

DLC? Are you kidding me?. That's sort of like puting a band-aid on a severed limb isn't it?.

We (those of us who made the mistake the writers clearly led us to in thinking themselves capable of "changing" Morrigan) got the royal s#!t kicked out of us; sucker-punched by someone we initially distrusted greatly but began to attach to as we observed her growing pains as she began to emerge into adult humanhood from isolated adolescent social retard; she, who in the end used us as a tool for her 'survival' and 'acquisiton of power.' The writers led me down the path they wanted it seems and I fell for it, with no recourse in the end. Thanks for making me relive prior real world mistakes. Great, just what I wanted after 60 hours of effort!

No, we were left bleeding on the floor the night before we needed our minds clear and bodies ready to do our Warden's duty; a point in time where we had prepared ourselves for through gaining experience, calculated levelling, setting tactics, practice and situational decision making; a night where our shield, sword, strength, dexterity, willpower and persuasive abilities were of no use whatsoever, and the choices to impact or change course were non-existent.  Couldn't even tell her off as my character would have...just accept this ambiguous choice (oh and you get to sleep with me one more time, lucky you) or die in sacrifice.  Wow, what an epic choice after 60 hours of gaming.

I would rather have died a hero's death with a choice to save Morrigan or save myself, as a final love lesson, with her continuing on with a child we conceived, which we might have learned about in an epilogue.  Maybe we could have been the child.  Maybe she could have come searching for ME in the Fade later.  Maybe even (the horror) the Maker rewarded my sacrifice and returned me finish this noble task.  These seem better options for an epic hero, but obviously we don't want to get into absolutes as it relates to love. Ambiguity is the rule with Bioware, and ambiguity is a copout. We will probably get some Arthur (PC) Morganna (Morrigan) Mordred (demon baby) well trodden bulls#it in a sequel. No way you'll count me as a player on the next round then.  I'm sure Bioware stays up sleepless at night worrying about me.

No, this "fix" requires major surgery. We deserve a full sequel (perhaps two) to work out the swamp witch issues we have developed in this game. I am not interested in a quick fix and Mr. Gaider has said the same. For other "Origins" or those who hated Morri, or went in a different direction, you'll get what you want.  You have no need of tying up any loose ends.  You get to remain blissfully unaware.  Good on you. Wish I'd romanced Leliana. I hear that was a bit better and I came very close when I had to make the choice, but felt a heavier obligation to Morri? Dumb**** me, huh?

If Bioware does the incomprensible and jumps 30 years into the future, or worse 400 years to the next Blight, in the sequel, I, for one, will not put myself in the position letting it happen again.  I won't allow them to just blow off what was an awful ending for me personally, only to do it to me again in the distant future with a new desireable female character. Slapping together a couple of hours of gameplay in DLC to "tie up loose ends" or give me "closure" is even less desireable.

Using Morrigan as she was used in the end was way too heavy handed for a plot bridge to a subsequent sequel if you romanced her. See possbile alternatives above.  An inequity of possible outcomes if you ask me; not that we shouldn't see diversity in endings according to the consequences for decisions made, but emotional trauma (place in context please) vs. indifference (as many players could care less for Morri, especially for female player [completely understood BTW]) is not real diversity in the balance; it's a crushing defeat vs. fulfilling gaming experience. Is this really what Bioware wanted?

In full disclosure, I came from a hardcore FPS/TPS gaming background.  This was my first RPG and I found this game extraordinarily attractive and had a very fulfilling gaming experience, right up to the point of the Dark Ritual, as it was handled.  I killed the Archdemon and watched Morrigan walk away even though she was 'sorry.'  I was rewarded with two lines of relevant text in the end.  Wow, thanks.  I haven't touched the game since. I simply have no moitvation to replay and get kicked in the balls again. Is this commonplace for RPGs?  If so, i'm going back to practicing my shotgun two-piece and maintaining my freindship, forged in a crucible of Locust trauma, with Marcus and Dom.

As far as 'Dark Fantasy' is concerned, Bioware's focus on the "Dark" (as if there weren't enough of that in the story to begin with) and downplaying the "Fantasy" part of this story is not all that intriguing and sort of a copout and convenient fallback position, if they receive bad player feedback.  I'm Sure Mr Gaider and crew think me probably quite the whiner or pouter, but that would just justify my next remark.  Since the writing team apparently wanted to teach me about Darwinism and about the reality that some humans actually canabalize on others, they force me to say: that in the end I am a consumer; 60 hours of effort and $60 is no small investment in entertainment. Attempting to teach me, or relive, lessons I've already learned from my first few failed relationships is not really what I thought I was buying when I entered into an economic agreement with Bioware. As it played out, as ridiculous as it sounds, I became hungry through the game for the opportunity to redeem prior mistakes somewhat, through this fantasy. Not meant to be I suppose...Just like real life, huh? Great...just what I wanted from fantasy, to be reminded of the awfulness of humanity and relationships, not the awfulness of evil mind you, but humanity.  No Lord of the Rings here. It could be, but wow what a hurdle to overcome with this ending.  I say this without any knowledge of where this story goes, so it can only be considered interim criticism that could be madefinal criticism.

Someone said earlier to trust Bioware.  Why? I, unlike many other RPG-ers, have no common point of reference in this environment to trust any free play story line game developer.  I'm not playing Mass Effect for fear of only being gelded like a helpless wimp again.  I am a bit like Morrigan, and while I "proved" myself to her, Bioware has yet to reciprocate.  Time will tell and believe me I will wait for the sequel's boards to light up before entering Ferelden again.  I don't game to learn lessons or be intrigued by personal pain (again, please place in context).  I've had plenty of it. I game for entertainment and the challenge of overcoming obstacles...to play the good guy overcoming dragons for lack of a better concept.  Any developer can make a game where a barrier is impenetrable. Just reduce the choices and viola! defeated gamer.  Did they do this on purpose?  Probably not, but they underestimated the outrage of literary license gone bad on a consumer community.

Just my two cents. I might be whining and just expressing disappointment in a bad way. I would appreciate others comments.

Peace.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 03 janvier 2010 - 09:56 .

[Barbarossa2010]

[quote]Barbarossa2010 wrote...

DLC? Are you kidding me?. That's sort of like puting a band-aid on a severed limb isn't it?.

We (those of us who made the mistake the writers clearly led us to in thinking themselves capable of "changing" Morrigan) got the royal s#!t kicked out of us; sucker-punched by someone we initially distrusted greatly but began to attach to as we observed her growing pains as she began to emerge into adult humanhood from isolated adolescent social retard; she, who in the end used us as a tool for her 'survival' and 'acquisiton of power.' The writers led me down the path they wanted it seems and I fell for it, with no recourse in the end. Thanks for making me relive prior real world mistakes. Great, just what I wanted after 60 hours of effort!

No, we were left bleeding on the floor the night before we needed our minds clear and bodies ready to do our Warden's duty; a point in time where we had prepared ourselves for through gaining experience, calculated levelling, setting tactics, practice and situational decision making; a night where our shield, sword, strength, dexterity, willpower and persuasive abilities were of no use whatsoever, and the choices to impact or change course were non-existent.  Couldn't even tell her off as my character would have...just accept this ambiguous choice (oh and you get to sleep with me one more time, lucky you) or die in sacrifice.  Wow, what an epic choice after 60 hours of gaming.

I would rather have died a hero's death with a choice to save Morrigan or save myself, as a final love lesson, with her continuing on with a child we conceived, which we might have learned about in an epilogue.  Maybe we could have been the child.  Maybe she could have come searching for ME in the Fade later.  Maybe even (the horror) the Maker rewarded my sacrifice and returned me finish this noble task.  These seem better options for an epic hero, but obviously we don't want to get into absolutes as it relates to love. Ambiguity is the rule with Bioware, and ambiguity is a copout. We will probably get some Arthur (PC) Morganna (Morrigan) Mordred (demon baby) well trodden bulls#it in a sequel. No way you'll count me as a player on the next round then.  I'm sure Bioware stays up sleepless at night worrying about me.

No, this "fix" requires major surgery. We deserve a full sequel (perhaps two) to work out the swamp witch issues we have developed in this game. I am not interested in a quick fix and Mr. Gaider has said the same. For other "Origins" or those who hated Morri, or went in a different direction, you'll get what you want.  You have no need of tying up any loose ends.  You get to remain blissfully unaware.  Good on you. Wish I'd romanced Leliana. I hear that was a bit better and I came very close when I had to make the choice, but felt a heavier obligation to Morri? Dumb**** me, huh?

If Bioware does the incomprensible and jumps 30 years into the future, or worse 400 years to the next Blight, in the sequel, I, for one, will not put myself in the position letting it happen again.  I won't allow them to just blow off what was an awful ending for me personally, only to do it to me again in the distant future with a new desireable female character. Slapping together a couple of hours of gameplay in DLC to "tie up loose ends" or give me "closure" is even less desireable.

Using Morrigan as she was used in the end was way too heavy handed for a plot bridge to a subsequent sequel if you romanced her. See possbile alternatives above.  An inequity of possible outcomes if you ask me; not that we shouldn't see diversity in endings according to the consequences for decisions made, but emotional trauma (place in context please) vs. indifference (as many players could care less for Morri, especially for female player [completely understood BTW]) is not real diversity in the balance; it's a crushing defeat vs. fulfilling gaming experience. Is this really what Bioware wanted?

In full disclosure, I came from a hardcore FPS/TPS gaming background.  This was my first RPG and I found this game extraordinarily attractive and had a very fulfilling gaming experience, right up to the point of the Dark Ritual, as it was handled.  I killed the Archdemon and watched Morrigan walk away even though she was 'sorry.'  I was rewarded with two lines of relevant text in the end.  Wow, thanks.  I haven't touched the game since. I simply have no moitvation to replay and get kicked in the balls again. Is this commonplace for RPGs?  If so, i'm going back to practicing my shotgun two-piece and maintaining my freindship, forged in a crucible of Locust trauma, with Marcus and Dom.

As far as 'Dark Fantasy' is concerned, Bioware's focus on the "Dark" (as if there weren't enough of that in the story to begin with) and downplaying the "Fantasy" part of this story is not all that intriguing and sort of a copout and convenient fallback position, if they receive bad player feedback.  I'm Sure Mr Gaider and crew think me probably quite the whiner or pouter, but that would just justify my next remark.  Since the writing team apparently wanted to teach me about Darwinism and about the reality that some humans actually canabalize on others, they force me to say: that in the end I am a consumer; 60 hours of effort and $60 is no small investment in entertainment. Attempting to teach me, or relive, lessons I've already learned from my first few failed relationships is not really what I thought I was buying when I entered into an economic agreement with Bioware. As it played out, as ridiculous as it sounds, I became hungry through the game for the opportunity to redeem prior mistakes somewhat, through this fantasy. Not meant to be I suppose...Just like real life, huh? Great...just what I wanted from fantasy, to be reminded of the awfulness of humanity and relationships, not the awfulness of evil mind you, but humanity.  No Lord of the Rings here. It could be, but wow what a hurdle to overcome with this ending.  I say this without any knowledge of where this story goes, so it can only be considered interim criticism that could be madefinal criticism.

Someone said earlier to trust Bioware.  Why? I, unlike many other RPG-ers, have no common point of reference in this environment to trust any free play story line game developer.  I'm not playing Mass Effect for fear of only being gelded like a helpless wimp again.  I am a bit like Morrigan, and while I "proved" myself to her, Bioware has yet to reciprocate.  Time will tell and believe me I will wait for the sequel's boards to light up before entering Ferelden again.  I don't game to learn lessons or be intrigued by personal pain (again, please place in context).  I've had plenty of it. I game for entertainment and the challenge of overcoming obstacles...to play the good guy overcoming dragons for lack of a better concept.  Any developer can make a game where a barrier is impenetrable. Just reduce the choices and viola! defeated gamer.  Did they do this on purpose?  Probably not, but they underestimated the outrage of literary license gone bad on a consumer community.

Just my two cents. I might be whining and just expressing disappointment in a bad way. I would appreciate others comments.

Peace.

[Barbarossa2010]

Double post, pooh. What should I expect anyway, huh? Bad ending, bad forum.

[Xandurpein]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Editted for the tis, twas and perhaps

Nice job and good of you to spot it.  (What can I say, english isn't my first language, but I should have remembered that).

[Xandurpein]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

As far as 'Dark Fantasy' is concerned, Bioware's focus on the "Dark" (as if there weren't enough of that in the story to begin with) and downplaying the "Fantasy" part of this story is not all that intriguing and sort of a copout and convenient fallback position, if they receive bad player feedback.

All I can say is that what I hear the word Dark Fantasy, then I assume it'll mean no sunshine and rainbow ending. So I got exactly what I expected from a Dark Fantasy.

In a way I think Morrigan and DA:O has saved all future Bioware romance from now on for me. Up until now I must say that the best RPG romance experience I have ever had was the first time I played BG2 and choose to romance Viconia. I'm not saying Viconia is the best concieved character ever, but the first time I played it I didn't KNOW it would work out well, even if I tried my best. I agonized over every decision talking to her. That is what made it so amazing when she finally admitted that she loved me. Since then it's never been the same. Even if I have played other games with better written characters, I have come to expect a happy end. Once you get the hang of it, it's not that hard choosing the right answer to "win" the girl, so if you always expect to win easily there is no exitment left. Now I know Bioware can give me an unhappy end, even if I fdo my best and next time I do get a happy end, it'll be so much more thrilling for it.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 03 janvier 2010 - 10:29 .

[ash the rpgamer]

the people that have said they don't want morrigan DLC they want a full game, well i hope your willing to wait then because they are doing dragon age DLC for 2 years which makes it highly likely that the next game won't be out for 2 years.



also although alot of people like morrigan, making a whole game based on her would be a silly idea imo, i think morrigan is a great character although personally she's not to my likeing and i remove her from my party as soon as possible, i much prefer leliana and travelling with her to Orlais would be a great expansion.



but as i've said a whole new game or expansion shouldn't be focussed on 1 character because not everyone will like that particular character.

[Kabraxal]

Xandurpein wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

As far as 'Dark Fantasy' is concerned, Bioware's focus on the "Dark" (as if there weren't enough of that in the story to begin with) and downplaying the "Fantasy" part of this story is not all that intriguing and sort of a copout and convenient fallback position, if they receive bad player feedback.

All I can say is that what I hear the word Dark Fantasy, then I assume it'll mean no sunshine and rainbow ending. So I got exactly what I expected from a Dark Fantasy.

In a way I think Morrigan and DA:O has saved all future Bioware romance from now on for me. Up until now I must say that the best RPG romance experience I have ever had was the first time I played BG2 and choose to romance Viconia. I'm not saying Viconia is the best concieved character ever, but the first time I played it I didn't KNOW it would work out well, even if I tried my best. I agonized over every decision talking to her. That is what made it so amazing when she finally admitted that she loved me. Since then it's never been the same. Even if I have played other games with better written characters, I have come to expect a happy end. Once you get the hang of it, it's not that hard choosing the right answer to "win" the girl, so if you always expect to win easily there is no exitment left. Now I know Bioware can give me an unhappy end, even if I fdo my best and next time I do get a happy end, it'll be so much more thrilling for it.

I was the opposite.  Viconia's romance pissed me off.  Either have a multitude of endings that differ thematically or don't offer choice for that particular character.  If the same is done with Morrigan, then the story of Dragon Age will take a massive hit with me. 

As to dark fantasy (non-horror variety)... I just wish there was less "rape, tortutre, rape, death, rape, despair, rape, more death, rape, false hope, more rape... I used to be a huge fan of the Song of Ice and Fire and Sword of Truth sagas, but the length and continued morbid despair of those sagas have really dragged them down. 
I prefer the sagas that have these darker elements but are not bogged down by them.  Most probably would not label such "dark" fantasy since despair doesn't win out though.

DA is so much better than its inspirations because it can sink into despair but also the player can actually work to brighten the world substantially.  If I'm feeling particularly moody one day, Ferelden will burn and scream and run in terror... but my heroic generousity also has its outlet and Ferelden can be dragged up to its feet and stand tall againt the darkness instead of cower in terror.

With the romantic options that must also be the case: sneak up behind the traitorous wench and do unspeakable things to her helpless body or wrap her struggling body in a warm and tender embrace until she submits to her love.  And for those that just don't care, they can let her wander off into history without a second glance.  That is what the DLC or sequel needs to offer with Morrigan... variety and choice.

/rant

[Obadiah]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
...
I would rather have died a hero's death with a choice to save Morrigan or save myself, as a final love lesson, with her continuing on with a child we conceived
...

The first time I finished this game (where I turned down the ritual and died), that's kind of how I saw the ritual choice actually. My grey warden tried, and probably failed, to save Morrigan from herself.