620 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

I do usually wait to actually understand what the game actually is before I make up my mind though.

And that is precisely why I've avoided posting in this topic up until now. A single image and a few scarce rumors are not enough to reach an objective conclusion on where the new Intellectual Property is going. There's little point in adding tinder to the fires through speculation. When it's ready to be shown, then we can start the kvetching.

[pmac_tk421]

RamirezWolfen wrote...

I hope it's a modern day espionage rpg game. I'd love that.

We had that. It was called apha protocol. None of the reviewers played passed Saudi Arabia so they gave it a bad score. Look I'm sorry that my tone is so harsh but I was angry that it was a great game that no one bought or cared about so we have no chance of a sequel.

[Chris Priestly]

DominusVita wrote...
 When it's ready to be shown, then we can start the kvetching.

I would expect nothing less.

[TheRealJayDee]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Then came Dragon Age Origins and we were awful for making games for Playstation 3 instead of keeping them exclusive to Xbox 360 consoles and for creating our own IP instead of returning to DnD.

Really? People complained because you started making your "actually meant to be played on PC" games for the cool console as well?






 

[Il Divo]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

You're missing my point.....

While I can't comment on the new game/studio thing, I can say that this sort of complaint really burns my onion. I've been with BioWare going on 11 years now and have heard this complaint a lot.

When we made Neverwinter Nights, we were bad for not making Baldur's Gate 3.

When we made Knights of  the Old Republic, we were "abandoning" our fantasy fans for moving to Sci-Fi, we were abandoning our PC fans by making an xbox game and we were tools of Lucasarts for working on their IP.

When we made Jade Empire, it was more of the same. "Get back to DnD", "Make BG3 already", "stop making console games for the kiddies and get back to your PC game roots", and a new "whay aren't you making KotOR 2 instead of this?", etc.

Then was made Mass Effect and became tools of Microsoft because there was no PS3 verion. And we were still scum for not making a fantasy game, PC exclusive, etc.

Then came Dragon Age Origins and we were awful for making games for Playstation 3 instead of keeping them exclusive to Xbox 360 consoles and for creating our own IP instead of returning to DnD.

Then we dared to try to make an MMO. We again fell victim to Lucasarts and were horrible for making an MMO and not a KotOR 3 which all true fans really wanted, how we had no knowledge to make an MMO, how we should use the staff and time to make anything/everything else, etc.

Now something else is on the way and this again seems to challenge the view that some people have about what BioWare is or should do. It must be EA MAKING/FORCING them do something. It will be horrible because it doesn't conform to what I think BioWare should do or has historically done. This will be awful because I have seen 1 screenshot and a few seconds of video and have made up my mind already.

Well, hopefully, we'll prove you wrong. Hopefully those of you complaining (and I know most of you are taking the much more sensible "wait and see" approach) will learn the details starting with the VGA awards and then more as time progresses. Some of you will like what is coming, some won't. I know I don't play EVERY video game that gets made. I do usually wait to actually understand what the game actually is before I make up my mind though.

So the central theme I'm noticing is that everyone keeps complaining that you guys should get back to making Baldur's Gate 3, with the AD&D system.

[Funkcase]

I take that as a hint it's not a RPG then Chris? =P

[Reptilian Rob]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...

I hope it's a modern day espionage rpg game. I'd love that.

We had that. It was called apha protocol. None of the reviewers played passed Saudi Arabia so they gave it a bad score. Look I'm sorry that my tone is so harsh but I was angry that it was a great game that no one bought or cared about so we have no chance of a sequel.

This is very true. however, think of what bioware could do with the same idea.

Slap an online pass on it and add multiplayer. HURRRRR DURRRRRRR

[SOLID_EVEREST]

pmac_tk421 wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...

I hope it's a modern day espionage rpg game. I'd love that.

We had that. It was called apha protocol. None of the reviewers played passed Saudi Arabia so they gave it a bad score. Look I'm sorry that my tone is so harsh but I was angry that it was a great game that no one bought or cared about so we have no chance of a sequel.

That is the only cinematic RPG experience that was actually groundbreaking. I mean there are so many choices and consequences that the story could be played multiple times and you are never going to get the same story. Same thing irks me when people say that they want a real wasteland that makes survival more difficult, and I keep giving them the same game: Fallout: 1/2.

[SavoyPrime77]

Chris Priestly wrote...

While I can't comment on the new game/studio thing, I can say that this sort of complaint really burns my onion. I've been with BioWare going on 11 years now and have heard this complaint a lot.

When we made Neverwinter Nights, we were bad for not making Baldur's Gate 3.

When we made Knights of  the Old Republic, we were "abandoning" our fantasy fans for moving to Sci-Fi, we were abandoning our PC fans by making an xbox game and we were tools of Lucasarts for working on their IP.

When we made Jade Empire, it was more of the same. "Get back to DnD", "Make BG3 already", "stop making console games for the kiddies and get back to your PC game roots", and a new "whay aren't you making KotOR 2 instead of this?", etc.

Then was made Mass Effect and became tools of Microsoft because there was no PS3 verion. And we were still scum for not making a fantasy game, PC exclusive, etc.

Then came Dragon Age Origins and we were awful for making games for Playstation 3 instead of keeping them exclusive to Xbox 360 consoles and for creating our own IP instead of returning to DnD.

Then we dared to try to make an MMO. We again fell victim to Lucasarts and were horrible for making an MMO and not a KotOR 3 which all true fans really wanted, how we had no knowledge to make an MMO, how we should use the staff and time to make anything/everything else, etc.

Now something else is on the way and this again seems to challenge the view that some people have about what BioWare is or should do. It must be EA MAKING/FORCING them do something. It will be horrible because it doesn't conform to what I think BioWare should do or has historically done. This will be awful because I have seen 1 screenshot and a few seconds of video and have made up my mind already.

Well, hopefully, we'll prove you wrong. Hopefully those of you complaining (and I know most of you are taking the much more sensible "wait and see" approach) will learn the details starting with the VGA awards and then more as time progresses. Some of you will like what is coming, some won't. I know I don't play EVERY video game that gets made. I do usually wait to actually understand what the game actually is before I make up my mind though.

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse us for wanting more RPGs Chris.

[Gatt9]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
I'm sorry, Gatt, but that entire post is just too Ragey to be taken seriously. It honestly sounds like you went to great lengths to find information but then sadly twist it to your own view.

It's not at all "Ragey",  it is what has happened.  I'd suggest maybe you start out by going to Gamespot and using the keyword EA and Bioware?  The articles are all still there,  as originally written,  as each event happened.

I know it's popular around here to pretend Bioware still exists,  but really,  people need to give it up already.  Bioware was bought by EA.  Bioware is just another name in the EA portfolio,  just like Bullfrog,  Maxis,  Origins,  Westwood,  Pandemic,  and more than a few others.

I'm not real sure why people keep trying to pretend it's anything but.

Btw,  a really good place to start your research would be the keyword EA and Lawsuit on Gamespot,  find the article on EA being sued by their own workers a few years ago.  Notice how their own developers state they're "Assembly line workers".

http://www.gamespot....=result;title;4

There's several other articles very similiar if you're still making the mistake of thinking Bioware is anything but a name to put on the box.

@il Divo,  you can feel free to start actually reading about how things work any time now.  I still recommend Gamespot for the news items,  and Gamasutra for general industry details.

Now something else is on the way and this again seems to challenge the view that some people have about what BioWare is or should do. It must be EA MAKING/FORCING them do something. It will be horrible because it doesn't conform to what I think BioWare should do or has historically done. This will be awful because I have seen 1 screenshot and a few seconds of video and have made up my mind already

Um...With all due respect,  the recent trend is highly indicative of cooporate decision making.

Plus,  the weak gameplay of ME2 bears out why you shouldn't take a group of RPG developers and task them with making a Shooter.  90's era AI,  linearity to a degree only FF13 compares with,  plot holes the Normandy could fly through,  a weapon suite so limited it's highly reminiscent of Doom,  especially since you kill one of the hardest critters in the game with starter weapons at level 2 so they're all unnecessary.

You act as though Bioware is some independant publisher,  it isn't.  It's a name Electronic Arts owns and uses for a few of it's teams.  Bioware was sold around 4 years ago.  This is the equivalent of Chevrolet,  Chevy isn't it's own company,  it's one of the components of GM.

Bioware isn't it's own company,  it's one of the components of EA.

So by all means,  act aggrieved.  But your paychecks still come from Electronic Arts,  not Bioware.  Your revenues go to Electronic Arts,  not Bioware.

http://www.gamespot....=result;title;2

[frustratemyself]

Chris Priestly wrote...

While I can't comment on the new game/studio thing, I can say that this sort of complaint really burns my onion. I've been with BioWare going on 11 years now and have heard this complaint a lot....

Well said Chris, far too sensible for bsn though 

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

@il Divo,  you can feel free to start actually reading about how things work any time now.  I still recommend Gamespot for the news items,  and Gamasutra for general industry details.

Why? If I want conspiracy theories, I can rely on your posts without all that extra effort. It's the same material you've been posting since August. None of them contains any actual evidence beyond weak claims about the superiority of Fallout, Christina Norman powerpoints, and how (magically) Mass Effect falls within the RPG genre while ME2 is a full on shooter. It doesn't support your claims of Bioware not existing, especially in consideration of Bioware's own design choices before even being purchased by EA.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 novembre 2011 - 04:57 .

[CheshireBlue]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

You're missing my point.....

While I can't comment on the new game/studio thing, I can say that this sort of complaint really burns my onion. I've been with BioWare going on 11 years now and have heard this complaint a lot.

---------------------------------------------------------------snip----------------------------------------------------------

Well, hopefully, we'll prove you wrong. Hopefully those of you complaining (and I know most of you are taking the much more sensible "wait and see" approach) will learn the details starting with the VGA awards and then more as time progresses. Some of you will like what is coming, some won't. I know I don't play EVERY video game that gets made. I do usually wait to actually understand what the game actually is before I make up my mind though.

While Bioware has failed to show  consistency along the years as you've pointed through all these changes (an attitude that does tend to alienate deeply loyal fanbases such as this, hence those misconceptions), the upside is that this goes to show that Bioware is one of the few AAA game developers that still takes risks.

I'm mostly advocating for the devil ™ here, as I think you guys are always one step shy from truly innovating, but that's a pretty personal opinion, which also comprises 'the pros heavily outweighs the cons'.

Modifié par CheshireBlue, 26 novembre 2011 - 05:49 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

This is EA Conspiracy to destroy Bioware. True, as simple as it seems.

[bandfred]

 If it's Alpha Protocol 2, then color me interested.

Mercenaries 3 or another Command and Conquer...well, I've always been more of a Company of Heroes/Age of Empires fan. 

Modifié par bandfred, 26 novembre 2011 - 06:58 .

[Confused-Shepard]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

You're missing my point.....

While I can't comment on the new game/studio thing, I can say that this sort of complaint really burns my onion. I've been with BioWare going on 11 years now and have heard this complaint a lot.

When we made Neverwinter Nights, we were bad for not making Baldur's Gate 3.

When we made Knights of  the Old Republic, we were "abandoning" our fantasy fans for moving to Sci-Fi, we were abandoning our PC fans by making an xbox game and we were tools of Lucasarts for working on their IP.

When we made Jade Empire, it was more of the same. "Get back to DnD", "Make BG3 already", "stop making console games for the kiddies and get back to your PC game roots", and a new "whay aren't you making KotOR 2 instead of this?", etc.

Then was made Mass Effect and became tools of Microsoft because there was no PS3 verion. And we were still scum for not making a fantasy game, PC exclusive, etc.

Then came Dragon Age Origins and we were awful for making games for Playstation 3 instead of keeping them exclusive to Xbox 360 consoles and for creating our own IP instead of returning to DnD.

Then we dared to try to make an MMO. We again fell victim to Lucasarts and were horrible for making an MMO and not a KotOR 3 which all true fans really wanted, how we had no knowledge to make an MMO, how we should use the staff and time to make anything/everything else, etc.

Now something else is on the way and this again seems to challenge the view that some people have about what BioWare is or should do. It must be EA MAKING/FORCING them do something. It will be horrible because it doesn't conform to what I think BioWare should do or has historically done. This will be awful because I have seen 1 screenshot and a few seconds of video and have made up my mind already.

Well, hopefully, we'll prove you wrong. Hopefully those of you complaining (and I know most of you are taking the much more sensible "wait and see" approach) will learn the details starting with the VGA awards and then more as time progresses. Some of you will like what is coming, some won't. I know I don't play EVERY video game that gets made. I do usually wait to actually understand what the game actually is before I make up my mind though.

I completely agree with you. Fans can be fickle and will **** and cry at everything you do.
I personally have enjoyed all your games. I was at first a bit dissapointed with the simplicity of Mass Effect 2 but you know what? It worked! I am so addicted to that game. It still keeps BIOWARE's strong points of story & charecter though. I dislike fantasy RPG's but enjoyed Dragon Age Origins but even you have to admit that Dragon Age 2 was a side step as opposed to a step forward. I don't play MMO's but STAR WARS Galaxies needed a replacement. 

However... this new game HONESTLY looks bland. It looks like an RTS version of every single cut & pasted pseudo realistic military shooter out there. I am sick and tired of fighting in the desert with tanks. To hell with the Hollywoodized US Marines and their overpriced junky hardware. The medium of video games allows for infinite possibilites and settings but instead you give us GULF WAR 2011. Dear lord make a Mass Effect RTS or even a STAR WARS one. Have a third person shooter that takes place inside someone's mind like Inception! Call me when you make something new & exiting like JADE EMPIRE again. 

Also, if you are doing post-apocalyptic stuff. DON'T COPY FALLOUT!!! Look at Enslaved or a certain Discovery Channel series called Life After People which shows buildings taken over by giant forests/overgrowth. Make something cyberpunk like DEUS EX! Why does no one copy Deus Ex instead of Call Of Duty?

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 26 novembre 2011 - 08:44 .

[HiroVoid]

bandfred wrote...

 If it's Alpha Protocol 2, then color me interested.

Dang it.  Just hearing this made me sad because I know it's not going to happen.

As far as Chris goes, I agree in that this is a wait-and-see approach. You shouldn't judge a product before we even actually see it.  And if it's not an RPG?  So what?  If they do a good job at making it what it is, it should be fine though it may not be to your tastes.

....I'm still hoping for an action racing rpg though the tanks kinda disprove that theory.  There aren't nearly enough action racing games out there.

[KenKenpachi]

With what Chris is saying, Bioware is just a developer for EA, I'm sure EA has its own oversight, but they mainly put down the cash to push the games out on compleation. Its about the same as all the Companies Bethseda backs. Bioware I think just does what it wants, and when you get to Mass Effect 2 and EA control as some put it, lets look at the path Bioware took. EA is not some giant evil, its protecting its properties, and trying to make money. Do you just give things away, and want to live a hand to mouth exsistance? No I doubt you do either. So why should they? (and by they I don't mean a faceless company, but the thousands of workers with mouths to feed and bills to pay, ever think about that? No, I doubt you have)

A Mech combat game, a D&D based game that has two parts, then Neverwinter nights, Kotor and Jade Empire, then Dragon Age, then Mass Effect and Wathammers MMO. From start to finish you have a huge jump. From mech to Fantasy, of which you have varrying styles and game plays, then scifi mixed in off and on.

Bioware never has, and never will have a "Market" like some companies. Hell its like Nintendo it will have fans of the brand but not of its sub types. And when "Ea took over" Did anything change? Hell no. It jumps from fantasy to Scifi and MMO's And the later games just like the former have little in common with the ones from before. Just as ME3 has little in common with ME1 and 2, short of story. There is no such thing as a "Bioware" market, they always have changed and went new directions, for all we know EA might just be taking a hands off approach with Bioware.

As to the next game, it doesn't have an RTS look or feel, I might be wrong, but it still looks like some sort of shooter, and anyone that played Mercs one would notice it had "Cartoony" units in it, as well as real Army. Then again it may be something totally new and unseen, even when Bioware has made a copy (KOTOR) of something else, it is something brand new.

I'm willing to give them the benafit of the doubt, as to some of the haters here, who want a new BG, or a D&D system...look at past games, besides settings, and even before EA was tacked on, where they ever consistant? Have they ever gone back to an older model?

No, and if thats what you want or expect, you may want to find a developer that sticks to one game type, or one game style. And good luck with that, short of Indy devs most of them have gone under.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 26 novembre 2011 - 01:27 .

[Il Divo]

modjospinster wrote...

While I can't comment on most of Gatt's opinions/viewpoints, I did read his previous post, and to be honest il Divo, for the most part he is right. While Bioware still more or less exists, its ea calling the shots now. I am sure Bioware still has some autonomy in what direction they go and what games they make, but you have to know/realize its ea now about what ea wants bioware to do. There is no cover up, no conspiracy. EA bought Bioware, and they are the head bosses now. I'm curious though on what your general opinion of mass effect 2 was. Not pulling any punches, just want to get your thoughts on it.

But EA calling the shots is not necessarily equivalent to Bioware not existing. This is where KenKenpachi's point enters the picture: As an RPG developer, Bioware has never really settled for consistency in what they chose to develop. They've gone all over the place, utilizing DnD 2.0, the Unreal Engine, etc. It's really difficult to get into the mindset of Bioware, since they do have a tendency to explore a variety of settings and game mechanics. Just look at Red Steel. Bioware is the renowned RPG developer...that didn't begin with RPGs.

One other point here to consider: Bioware themselves, ignoring Dragon Age: Origins, have yet to design any kind of complex gameplay mechanics. Up to this point, every Bioware game has either been reliant on the DnD ruleset or have been extremely simple to follow (Jade Empire, ME, ME2), and this was also pre-purchase.

As far as ME2? It was probably my favorite Bioware game, ignoring Knights of the old Republic. Alot of people perceive the recent drop in quality as evidence of EA's influence, but that also requires that I accept the argument that there has been a quality drop. I (for example) consider Baldur's Gate 1 and Neverwinter Nights to be Bioware's worst games, and would still consider Dragon Age 2 above those titles personally. I'm not denying that there have been some weird things out of Bioware since the EA acquisition, but the claim that they are a "name only" to me is rather absurd, given Bioware's own erratic history of game releases, since before the purchase.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 novembre 2011 - 02:29 .

[pmac_tk421]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

You're missing my point.....

While I can't comment on the new game/studio thing, I can say that this sort of complaint really burns my onion. I've been with BioWare going on 11 years now and have heard this complaint a lot.

When we made Neverwinter Nights, we were bad for not making Baldur's Gate 3.

When we made Knights of  the Old Republic, we were "abandoning" our fantasy fans for moving to Sci-Fi, we were abandoning our PC fans by making an xbox game and we were tools of Lucasarts for working on their IP.

When we made Jade Empire, it was more of the same. "Get back to DnD", "Make BG3 already", "stop making console games for the kiddies and get back to your PC game roots", and a new "whay aren't you making KotOR 2 instead of this?", etc.

Then was made Mass Effect and became tools of Microsoft because there was no PS3 verion. And we were still scum for not making a fantasy game, PC exclusive, etc.

Then came Dragon Age Origins and we were awful for making games for Playstation 3 instead of keeping them exclusive to Xbox 360 consoles and for creating our own IP instead of returning to DnD.

Then we dared to try to make an MMO. We again fell victim to Lucasarts and were horrible for making an MMO and not a KotOR 3 which all true fans really wanted, how we had no knowledge to make an MMO, how we should use the staff and time to make anything/everything else, etc.

Now something else is on the way and this again seems to challenge the view that some people have about what BioWare is or should do. It must be EA MAKING/FORCING them do something. It will be horrible because it doesn't conform to what I think BioWare should do or has historically done. This will be awful because I have seen 1 screenshot and a few seconds of video and have made up my mind already.

Well, hopefully, we'll prove you wrong. Hopefully those of you complaining (and I know most of you are taking the much more sensible "wait and see" approach) will learn the details starting with the VGA awards and then more as time progresses. Some of you will like what is coming, some won't. I know I don't play EVERY video game that gets made. I do usually wait to actually understand what the game actually is before I make up my mind though.

I feel ya Chris. It's annoying enough to read it on the forums and it must suck to be on the recieving end of such bull****. Biowares awesome guys, and I haven't seen the problems your pointing out, because they don't exist. Stop the hate.

[zx2781]

I have been quietly reading every post to this thread for the past two weeks and I know it is not Jade Empire 2. I am off to sulk in a dark corner.

[SafetyShattered]

Bioware, I will buy everyone of your new games until the day I die if you make Jade Empire 2.

[Archangel470]

I can't wait to see what BioWare has next.

And plus Shadowfang, why do some people want Jade Empire 2 so BADLY (yes, including you). I never played the first one.