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For some pro-mage who don't understand at all what counts.


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#1
The dead fish

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There is something wrong with you. It is to believe that the purpose of bioware is to satisfy you, or match with your interests as a private group, such as a lobby. The purpose of bioware is not to write the destiny of mages based on what you think, or you plan for the future, depending on interest from a group or another. To expect choices, many choices, it's cool, it's reasonable. But to think that their view must necessarily stick to your point of view goes too far.

This is unrealistic if there is a compromise in the next game ? What the hell ?  You already have the answers ? You already know what will happen in the future ?  No and that's a bit arrogant. The truth is that as fanatics, you deny this script, that's it. The chantry must be completely destroyed, your revolution must not stop until you have what you want. I'd like this too for my fanatic mage, but that's it. For you, It is mandatory, " otherwise it is not realistic, because DO NOT WANT. " Your agenda is more important to you than the story. The story makes sense to you if it sticks to your own agenda,. And that's where it's wrong.

What are all these subliminal Messages  ? : IF I AM NOT MAGE, IF I CAN NOT DEFEND THE MAGES  IN THE NEXT GAME, I WON'T BUY DA3 ! Really ? No, but Really ? :?

In DAO and DA2 you couldn't play the mage class and defend the mages ? No. So I don't know what are you f!cking about.

What does that mean, " if bioware done this or that, that means it is an anti-MAGE or have an anti-mage agenda ? You speak as if it was a violation of human rights, racism and you were the defenders of a minority.  And they deserve to be tried. It makes no sense. Bioware have no particular position to have, its purpose is to place events, advance their story as he wants to tell, with positive or negative consequences for a faction, a character or another. To say that Bioware is pro-mage or pro-templar, or pro-anti chantry makes no sense. Bioware does not care about all these considerations.

If mages lose the war - and it's possible - if the mages fail their revolution in the next game, That is not something you have to take personally, IT WON'T BE A DEFEAT  FOR YOU PRO MAGE ON THIS BOARD, it wouldn't mean they hate you or hate mages.  Instead that will be interesting for the story and to see the evolution. The news elements, the new situation, and without that this event could change your will and possibilities to help mage, with your own agenda.

Bioware doesn't have to save mages, because that's what you want, because it's your agenda, because otherwise YOU WILL BE ANGRY
. Their story is not written according to the interests of each small private group. When they write their story they won't say for themself, here I have to meet some pro-mage expectations, and there the pro Templar expectations, and here pro qunari expectations, etc.

I am an opponent of Qunari,  yet if Qunari conquer Thedas and win easily against the nation of Thedas and  the chantry. I won't scream s : BIOWARE IS PRO-QUNARI, ANTI-HUMAN. That's not at all what counts for me, my agenda. On the contrary, it will be absolutely interesting to see this in the story, and yet my human pro-position wouldn't change at all. Because the story matters to me more than my own agenda, which is simply a reflection of what I think or what I want, but do not go further than that.

And I won't cry either,: AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN HUMAN AND QUNARI is UNREALISTIC IN THE FUTURE ? Do I  know the future? Do I have all the answers that I can already determine what could and what couldn't be ? No.

The Chantry, I like the chantry. If the chantry was destroyed completely, and the revolution mage wins, I won't scream BIOWARE DECIDED TO SIDE WITH PRO-MAGE, BIOWARE IS ANTI-RELIGION, etc. etc..

Instead, I will be excited by the prospect of a major upheaval and its implications later.

When bioware brings a new dimension of the Templars, that's not because he wants to convince you that they are better than what you think. But because it is their story and that the Templars do not necessarily correspond to what you describe or think of them. If you want to think they are bad, okay that's your opinion, but bioware is not forced at all to follow you in this idea, they have their point of view of what the Templars are. ( thanks god, because they are all evil.... it's getting old )

For descriptions of mage in DA2, you can disagree with  the excessive brutality in the concept, but intend to bring a new dimension compared to mages is good, not at all bad and especially not against you or the Mages.

The aim was to enlighten you on the risks involved in being a mage, details that couldn't be provided only in a single game, and there will be again lots of things you will discover in future games. And we should not think like some of you did.

With all that you forget the most important,  The story as a whole. And not your agenda. If your own agenda is everything, or what counts first, of course, you will never be satisfied with your faulty logic. And every detail will be examined to see if Bioware has well portrayed mages to you, as if you were the defenders of a minority that monitors if they are not doing something stupid.

And let me tell you that you are a small minority, you are not at all representative of the majority outside. What they want isn't that mages are better portrayed, or templars better portrayed, or a revolution or, etc,  but  a story intelligent, interesting, with choices, yes, but there is no necessity that it fits absolutely with their agenda.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 05 novembre 2011 - 01:40 .


#2
TheJediSaint

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Though I enjoy speculating on the "what-ifs" in regards to the Mage/Templar issue, I do agree with your point that we shouldn't get overly emotionally invested in a particular outcome.

I would love to get the opportunity in the next game as a PC to have a chance influence the final outcome of the Mage/Templar war, and I think it's alright for people to speculate on what those outcomes could be.

However, I'm not about to tell Bioware what those outcomes SHOULD be. And I certainly am not going to dictate my political ideology to them, which seems to be all to prevalent in the fanbase. The Mage Templar war is not an allegory for the real world , it's just the conflict that the writers can use to drive the story of the next game.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 03 novembre 2011 - 08:19 .


#3
Xilizhra

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And why are you posting this to begin with?

#4
Jedi Master of Orion

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I think the OP has a good point, that I've been struggling to articulate for a while. There are a lot of people who seem to take it as some personal affront if Bioware fails to quite live up to whatever preconceived narrative is playing out in their head.

I shudder to imagine the complaints Bioware may get if the mage rebellion fails to change the status quo or worse if it succeeds and the mages aren't able to police themselves as well as the templars did. Not that this mentality is monopolized by the so called "pro-mage" people, but I have seen many similar examples regarding what Bioware will write for the future of the story regarding mages.

I'm not saying I don't have any preconceptions about what Dragon Age is myself or that even I agree with every decision the writers have made over the years because I certainly do and I really don't, but I don't think my opinion is being persecuted if Thedas doesn't line up exactly the way I'd hope or expect.

I never really got behind the explanation for the new Anders, but that doesn't mean I think Bioware has some anti-straight, pro voice changing agenda.

#5
Xilizhra

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I shudder to imagine the complaints Bioware may get if the mage rebellion fails to change the status quo or worse if it succeeds and the mages aren't able to police themselves as well as the templars did. Not that this mentality is monopolized by the so called "pro-mage" people, but I have seen many similar examples regarding what Bioware will write for the future of the story regarding mages.

Well, if it doesn't change the status quo in some way, it's simply imbecilic. As for the second part, I'm not counting on anything specific because I think a bigger change is coming beyond simple changing of institutions. Though considering what great jobs the templars did, mages being unable to police themselves as well would require them to be in the "bag of rocks" level of intelligence.

#6
Dave of Canada

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The general fanatical mage posters (you know who you are, don't bother to mention I'm a Templar fanatic. I know I am, look at the signature) has this moral sense of being "good" and "righteous" that if they'd fail in any sense of the word, they'll absolutely flip out and say Bioware hates them and are anti-mage. They don't want to see "evil" win, despite said "evil" and "good" being subjective.

I've seen claims by them outright stating that mages will win and be freed by virtue of them being innocent victims and Bioware won't allow them to continue being oppressed. Arrogant point of view, though not without reason as most players will undoubtedly side with mages and when it boils down to it we're not going to see the majority getting completely hurt for their decisions.

However, I have full faith in David Gaider and the rest of the writing team. They've done relatively well in terms of bitter-sweet, despite some hiccups here or there in Dragon Age 2. Just step back and watch the usual suspect's heads explode and yell out anti-mage agenda if they show any mage in a negative portrayal, though.

#7
TheJediSaint

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Dave of Canada wrote...
Just step back and watch the usual suspect's heads explode and yell out anti-mage agenda if they show any mage in a negative portrayal, though.


Now Mr. of Canada, that strkes me as being rather insestive to the poor janitorial staff who will be left to clean up the mess resulting from said head explosions. 

#8
Dave of Canada

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TheJediSaint wrote...

Now Mr. of Canada, that strkes me as being rather insestive to the poor janitorial staff who will be left to clean up the mess resulting from said head explosions. 


Honey badg- tranquil mages don't care.

#9
Zanallen

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I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.

#10
AlexXIV

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As long as stuff makes sense I don't need my perfect ending. Only thing that bothered me in DA2 was that you just didn't have the option to pick the smart choice in alot of events. I mean I am not bothered that the templars win in the end and neither would I be if all mages died in the war. What would bother me would be if you can't make the smart choices when you get to make any at all.

#11
TJPags

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Zanallen wrote...

I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.


I'm hoping for that option as well, simply because I want there to be an option.

DA2 failed, IMO, largely because it did nothing but set the stage for a conflict.  The point of DA2 seemed to be about getting to the mage-templar conflict, not about anything else - options to prevent it (or almost anything else in the game, for that matter) as an example.

So, fine, now we got to that point.  For DA3, I'd like there to be options on how it resolves.

Personally, I'd be disappointed if we simply get a resolution provided to us, no matter what it is.

Although, yes, I would choose the "slaughter all mages on sight" option, myself, just to make people around here hate me more.  Image IPB

#12
blothulfur

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How horrible to slaughter all mages, far better to leash them under service to the Qun where they can learn of duty and responsibility.

The Qun is all.

#13
Sons of Horus

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Some of the most sane posts on BSN I have seen. Still I’m hoping that an expansion rather than dragon age 3 would deal with this mess. You could even make Hawke important by stopping this retarded war. Maybe then he could live up to the champion status.

#14
TheJediSaint

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Sons of Horus wrote...

Some of the most sane posts on BSN I have seen.


It won't last, nature hates a vaccum and so does crazy.

#15
Xilizhra

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Sons of Horus wrote...

Some of the most sane posts on BSN I have seen. Still I’m hoping that an expansion rather than dragon age 3 would deal with this mess. You could even make Hawke important by stopping this retarded war. Maybe then he could live up to the champion status.

The war is hardly "retarded."

#16
Xiomara

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Zanallen wrote...

I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.


Me too.
 
Of course I wouldn't exactly object to the option to kill all templars either. Anything better than the half assed approach of DA2.

#17
TheSixthghoul

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I hope they never bring up the mage rebellion or the Templar's again and go back to the Archdemon. Or If they do feel the impulse to bring up this irrelevant part of the saga they should at least have a kill everyone option.

#18
Xilizhra

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Come on, this is far more interesting than the Archdemon stuff, unless we get some kind of explanation for how they work instead of being a bland final boss and nothing else. Meredith may have been underdeveloped, but at least she was developed.

#19
DKJaigen

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Sylvianus wrote...


The aim was to enlighten you on the risks involved in being a mage, details that couldn't be provided only in a single game, and there will be again lots of things you will discover in future games. And we should not think like some of you did.


The problem was that this is was poorly done. So far i have seen only idiots that raise hell and then die for no appearent purpose. Their is no grand plot or a cold hearted mage that kills of ten thousand people just to feed his ambition.

But i will just wait till DA3 before i make any judgement.

#20
Noatz

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Anyone who threatens to quit because they don't agree with the plot shouldn't be taken seriously.

#21
labargegrrrl

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As someone who's actually very pro-mage, I agree with a lot of your sentiment. I personally don't feel like I should have to be anti-Templar or anti-Chantry. I think that as bad as DA2 made us mages look, I think they did a pretty nice job of making Templars look like a bunch of sadistic junkies and I'm surprised that more pro-Temps don't **** about that fact. I'd love to see a resolution to the conflict that doesn't just rip the whole Chantry apart. Honestly, what's left after that? The qun? The Imperium? F@ck that! I don't want my lips sewn shut. And I think loosing my soul to dark magic is kind of the opposite of freedom. I think the end of DA2 is a beautiful setup for what needs to happen in the next chapter: A new hero must come in and end the blatant extremism that started in Kirkwall and caught the rest of Thedas up in it. And I think that such a hero could still be a mage in that context.

#22
megski

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I'm not really pro anything, for either side. I don't see the mages or templars as 'bad' and I try to stay optimistic about the possible outcomes in the DA universe. But I have noticed this as well. People seem to take these arguments so seriously, I can't tell if it's passion or just way too much of a personal investment.

p.s. I think this will get ugly.

#23
dragonflight288

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I'm generally pro-mage but I do see the templar's side. A philosopher I'm studying...Mills...has a great quote that some people may enjoy...and others may be offended by but whatever.

It is better to be a person dissatisfied than a swine satisfied. It is also better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. The fool and the swine may be happy, but the others can see both sides.


I personally like several templars. Gregoire, Bryant, the blind one in Denerim's alienage, Thrask, Keran, and actually Cullen. I also dislike several mages. Uldred, Wynne gets on my nerves with all the preaching, Grace, and Quentin. I didn't mention others because we didn't get more than one scene with them (I recognize Quentin had only one scene, but we had enough exposition leading up to it to get an accurate read on him.)

I personally think that at the point where Cassandra is interrogating Varic, the war can go either way. I would appreciate meaningful choices. Side with one or the other, betray one to the other, side with the Qunari and wipe both out. Do I expect such large choices? Well if Bioware spends a few years working on the game alone.

But whenever discussions start getting heated, I bow my head and leave the arena, and return when cooler heads prevail.

Agreed with the post Sylvianus.

#24
Ryzaki

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Zanallen wrote...

I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.


Same. 

Would be even funnier if I could do it as a  mage. :D

#25
bleetman

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I was under the impression the right of annulment was your "kill all the mages" option.