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For some pro-mage who don't understand at all what counts.


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#51
The dead fish

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Dragon age that's first a story, the story can not stand freezing. A story must evolve. The situation will change for each factions, and they won't have the same situation. Their situation will not remain static. There is a moment, the consequences are positive, or they are negative, all can't be positives, especially if factions are fighting each other. There will be no all the time the status quo. And each player will support a faction.

You will have choices, but not necessarily the ones you absolutely want, because it isn't impossible in the story.

example: I really want the Templars, the chantry destroyed, and all the mages freed in the next game, but problem, the Templars are powerful and not so easy to defeat. If in the game you can not destroy the Templars, you can still support other decisions to hurt them, you can still defend mage, you can still play your agenda, you can still fight them.

That does not mean you can not have many choice. I do not know where you came to this idea.

Saying for example, the templars must be destroyed in the next game otherwise there is no choice, makes no sense.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 novembre 2011 - 04:45 .


#52
LobselVith8

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Sylvianus wrote...

There is something wrong with you. It is to believe that the purpose of bioware is to satisfy you, or match with your interests as a private group, such as a lobby. The purpose of bioware is not to write the destiny of mages based on what you think, or you plan for the future, depending on interest from a group or another. To expect choices, many choices, it's cool, it's reasonable. But to think that their view must necessarily stick to your point of view goes too far.


I don't think there's anything wrong with people who want significant choices, who want engaging factions that don't consist only of "stupid and insane mages" or "sadistic rapist templars," who want to see ramifications for the choices that could be made. When the protagonist takes a seat to the demands of the Plot, especially when the act makes no sense in the context of the narrative, then it takes me out of the moment, and it ruins my immersion and my enjoyment from the storyline.

Sylvianus wrote...

This is unrealistic if there is a compromise in the next game ? What the hell ?  You already have the answers ? You already know what will happen in the future ?  No and that's a bit arrogant. The truth is that as fanatics, you deny this script, that's it. The chantry must be completely destroyed, your revolution must not stop until you have what you want. I'd like this too for my fanatic mage, but that's it. For you, It is mandatory, " otherwise it is not realistic, because DO NOT WANT. " Your agenda is more important to you than the story. The story makes sense to you if it sticks to your own agenda,. And that's where it's wrong.


People have their own opinions about the templars and the mages. Both Origins and Dragon Age 2 invite the player to make a choice between the dichotomy of these two factions, so clearly people will make their own decisons about how they feel about the Order of Templars and the Circle of Magi.

People have an opinion about the schism between templars and mages, and some people feel that it's unrealistic for a compromise to be reached when the apparent goals of both factions are in complete opposition to one another. I don't see why you felt the need to make an entire thread about the fact that you dislike that people have a differing opinion than you do. You have an opinion, and some people have a different opinion, that's all.

Sylvianus wrote...

What are all these subliminal Messages  ? : IF I AM NOT MAGE, IF I CAN NOT DEFEND THE MAGES  IN THE NEXT GAME, I WON'T BUY DA3 ! Really ? No, but Really ? Image IPB 


You are upset because people would prefer to have multiple choices as opposed to none at all?

I really don't understand why you are so upset about this. If people don't agree with the Chantry or the templars, why should they want to play the next game if they are forced to side with the Chantry or the templars as a Seeker? If people exclusively play as mages in Dragon Age series, and don't favor playing as a warrior or a rogue, why would they purchase the game if mages aren't avaliable?

Sylvianus wrote...

In DAO and DA2 you couldn't play the mage class and defend the mages ? No. So I don't know what are you f!cking about.


The issue seems to be that some people don't like the idea of being forced to play as a member of an organization that they don't personally find any enjoyment from, which is what some people were speculating about based on rumors. I don't see why you are so irate about their opinions.

Sylvianus wrote...

What does that mean, " if bioware done this or that, that means it is an anti-MAGE or have an anti-mage agenda ? You speak as if it was a violation of human rights, racism and you were the defenders of a minority.  And they deserve to be tried. It makes no sense. Bioware have no particular position to have, its purpose is to place events, advance their story as he wants to tell, with positive or negative consequences for a faction, a character or another. To say that Bioware is pro-mage or pro-templar, or pro-anti chantry makes no sense. Bioware does not care about all these considerations.


So you're upset that people feel that the storyline was badly handled on multiple fronts? That virtually all the mage antagonists were insane and stupid, and all the templar antagonists were sadists and rapists? That there was no attempt to provide any depth to the two factions? That the "two endings" were virtually identical to one another despite siding with the opposing faction?

I don't know what to tell you, because I didn't think it was properly handled myself. I think people would prefer to have a storyline where virtually everyone wasn't a complete idiot, if you want my honest opinion. Putting a few codex entries and saying everyone is insane and stupid because of the Band of Three or because of the imprisoned darkspawn in Legacy doesn't really cut it. Not to mention a pro-active protagonist who doesn't stand idly by while someone is murdered right in front of him, or continues to let dangerous people walk away because the Plot Dictates that this happens.

Sylvianus wrote...

If mages lose the war - and it's possible - if the mages fail their revolution in the next game, That is not something you have to take personally, IT WON'T BE A DEFEAT  FOR YOU PRO MAGE ON THIS BOARD, it wouldn't mean they hate you or hate mages.  Instead that will be interesting for the story and to see the evolution. The news elements, the new situation, and without that this event could change your will and possibilities to help mage, with your own agenda.

Bioware doesn't have to save mages, because that's what you want, because it's your agenda, because otherwise YOU WILL BE ANGRY
. Their story is not written according to the interests of each small private group. When they write their story they won't say for themself, here I have to meet some pro-mage expectations, and there the pro Templar expectations, and here pro qunari expectations, etc.


Everyone has an opinion about who might win the war - templars or mages. That's all it is - an opinion. Personally, I doubt the protagonist will have any choice in choosing between templars or mages unless the creators force the protagonist to side with one over the other, because I doubt future sequels to the third game will accomodate such a distinct choice between the templars or the mages in every single sequel to the game.

Sylvianus wrote...

I am an opponent of Qunari,  yet if Qunari conquer Thedas and win easily against the nation of Thedas and  the chantry. I won't scream s : BIOWARE IS PRO-QUNARI, ANTI-HUMAN. That's not at all what counts for me, my agenda. On the contrary, it will be absolutely interesting to see this in the story, and yet my human pro-position wouldn't change at all. Because the story matters to me more than my own agenda, which is simply a reflection of what I think or what I want, but do not go further than that.


Is this about the controversy over Hawke letting Tallis walk away for people who opposed the Qunari? Because I think people are tired of the protagonist doing nothing when it's within his power to do something. At least, I am.

Sylvianus wrote...

And I won't cry either,: AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN HUMAN AND QUNARI is UNREALISTIC IN THE FUTURE ? Do I  know the future? Do I have all the answers that I can already determine what could and what couldn't be ? No.


People have opinions. If people have a different opinion than you, it's nothing personal.

#53
Bayz

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LobselVith8 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

And I won't cry either,: AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN HUMAN AND QUNARI is UNREALISTIC IN THE FUTURE ? Do I  know the future? Do I have all the answers that I can already determine what could and what couldn't be ? No.


People have opinions. If people have a different opinion than you, it's nothing personal.


UNTRUE, Pick a shotgun, Go out DESTROY!!!

ahem:blush:

There are humans who follow the Qun you know...so yeah, Human Qunari exist.

Thing is, there is only two things I ask to DA3, that it let's me kill Morrigan's Son, that it let's me kill Flemmeth and that it let's me kill Cassandra...three that's three things lol<_<

Oh and those fights are epic in epicness and tough as nails

And not necessarily in the same playthrough.

The rest, I do not actually care so long as the history is enjoyable, I would like more choices, yes but only if they come with real consecuences like in DA:O. The "choices" of DA2 got me a bit dissapointed, a lot actually...

#54
EmperorSahlertz

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Why would you kill Cassandra?

#55
esper

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EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would you kill Cassandra?


Because she is the Thedas' most incompetent seeker? The thing she intentially thought Hawke capable off doesn't bode well for the seeker's intelligence gathering powers.

#56
Herr Uhl

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EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would you kill Cassandra?


Because she is rude?

#57
General User

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esper wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would you kill Cassandra?


Because she is the Thedas' most incompetent seeker? The thing she intentially thought Hawke capable off doesn't bode well for the seeker's intelligence gathering powers.

Could you elaborate?  What thing that she thought Hawke was capable of are you refering to?

#58
Herr Uhl

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General User wrote...

Could you elaborate?  What thing that she thought Hawke was capable of are you refering to?


Masterminding the downfall of the city into chaos.

#59
AlexXIV

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General User wrote...

esper wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would you kill Cassandra?


Because she is the Thedas' most incompetent seeker? The thing she intentially thought Hawke capable off doesn't bode well for the seeker's intelligence gathering powers.

Could you elaborate?  What thing that she thought Hawke was capable of are you refering to?

Probably because she thought Hawke is the mastermind behind everything and in league with Anders. But according to Varric Hawke accidently stumbled into it. I wouldn't know which side I believe more either.

#60
General User

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That's what I though too, but that in no way reflects poorly on Cassandra, just the opposite really. Establishing a working theory based on what you know, then changing it as new facts come to light is how investigations work.

#61
Bayz

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EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would you kill Cassandra?


She seems tough. I'm all for the thrill of the hunt. In a fight with her similar to the fight with the one of Ser Cauthrien I think she could pack a punch, and I am all for it.

#62
Killjoy Cutter

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Xilizhra wrote...

And why are you posting this to begin with?



I can't even process what he's saying... I think I've missed some context that lead up to his rant, and the English is just bad enough that it confuses me. 

#63
AlexXIV

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Bayz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would you kill Cassandra?


She seems tough. I'm all for the thrill of the hunt. In a fight with her similar to the fight with the one of Ser Cauthrien I think she could pack a punch, and I am all for it.

I'm all for the option to fight or kill her if I can also have the option to bed her instead.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:44 .


#64
esper

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General User wrote...

esper wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why would you kill Cassandra?


Because she is the Thedas' most incompetent seeker? The thing she intentially thought Hawke capable off doesn't bode well for the seeker's intelligence gathering powers.

Could you elaborate?  What thing that she thought Hawke was capable of are you refering to?


gathering from what she said to varric:
Hawke came to Kirkwall along with Anders,  Merrill and Isabella and Aveline. She already about the idol's power and that it existed and thus ventured into the deep roads to gather it and force it on Meridith so that Meridith would be driven made and eventually turned to stone (I don't know if it is the mad and driven to stone parts they think, because that is not clear).  In the meantime she apperently saw the Quanri and sought them out herself because she predicted that she could get them to attack so she could kill the Arishok and thus become champion.
 Also Hawke's reason to do this was because she was an apostate who wanted to upsurp the chantry which leads me to think that they also blame her for the bomb.  - All that cassandra says regarldess of your choices.

 Hawke coming to Kikrwall with the Fereldans - yes, I can understand that. Hawke helping with the bomb, in my Hawke's case, yes. Since she romanced Anders and sided with the mages. But having the ability to know what was in the Deep Road when nobody knows what the idol along with the ablility to know that it could do, is just far fecthed, so is the ability to think that Hawke went to the Quanri of her won free will and provoked/manipuleted them when the qunari was in Kirkwall for at least three years. Are you telling me that the Seekers didn't send one spy there, during those three years.    

Basically the Seekers seems to think that Hawke is anti-chantry no matter what. That coupled with the fact that Cassandra claims (I pray to the Maker that it was a lie from her side) that they want Hawke to get her to stop the war (a feast not even the best living symbol can accomplice). Basically the seekers seems to have heard Varric's stories and believed them, and we all know that they are so over the top that a good intelligence gathering group shouldn't believe them.  

#65
Bayz

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AlexXIV wrote...

I'm all for the option to fight or kill her if I can also have he option to bed her instead.


That goes without saying. I fully support this too.

And if you can bed her and then fight and kill her like Leliana then more <3

And if you can bed her and Leliana and...ok ok I had derailed the thread too much

Modifié par Bayz, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:42 .


#66
General User

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Cassandra accepted Varric's version of events, I wouldn't say she believed it exactly.

As for her understanding of events prior to her interview with Varric, as I said, that in no way reflects poorly on Cassandra. Establishing a working theory based on what you know, then changing it as new facts come to light is how investigations are supposed to work.

#67
Dave of Canada

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esper wrote...

Basically the Seekers seems to think that Hawke is anti-chantry no matter what. That coupled with the fact that Cassandra claims (I pray to the Maker that it was a lie from her side) that they want Hawke to get her to stop the war (a feast not even the best living symbol can accomplice). Basically the seekers seems to have heard Varric's stories and believed them, and we all know that they are so over the top that a good intelligence gathering group shouldn't believe them.


If you support the mages, they might think you were responsible for the mages rebelling.
If you support the templar, they might think you were responsible for the templar seperating.

The Seekers have no other knowledge on Hawke and what he or she has done because the only known information out there for anybody who wasn't involved was what people were saying, the interrogation is about clarifying the issue. They want Hawke to possibly be able to talk down one side, Hawke is considered a hero by them (whether the title is deserved or not doesn't matter, Hawke is still an icon).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:48 .


#68
esper

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General User wrote...

Cassandra accepted Varric's version of events, I wouldn't say she believed it exactly.

As for her understanding of events prior to her interview with Varric, as I said, that in no way reflects poorly on Cassandra. Establishing a working theory based on what you know, then changing it as new facts come to light is how investigations are supposed to work.


Yes, but there is reasonable events and things that should make you go... Is that even possible? 
Thinkig that Hawke came with the rest of the groups is reasonable. Think that Hawke is anti-chantry. Given what happen in da2 I can see that too.

Thinking that anyhawke has the psyhic abilities to predict what the idol can do and to manipulate the Arishok in that way and the knowing that they would win a champion title for it is just crazy.

It is also crazy to think that Hawke could stop the war. If Hawke is a symbol powerfull enough to calm down either the mage/templars side, the other side would automatically hate Hawke enough to never want to do anything s/he says.

#69
esper

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Dave of Canada wrote...

esper wrote...

Basically the Seekers seems to think that Hawke is anti-chantry no matter what. That coupled with the fact that Cassandra claims (I pray to the Maker that it was a lie from her side) that they want Hawke to get her to stop the war (a feast not even the best living symbol can accomplice). Basically the seekers seems to have heard Varric's stories and believed them, and we all know that they are so over the top that a good intelligence gathering group shouldn't believe them.


If you support the mages, they might think you were responsible for the mages rebelling.
If you support the templar, they might think you were responsible for the templar seperating.

The Seekers have no other knowledge on Hawke and what he or she has done because the only known information out there for anybody who wasn't involved was what people were saying, the interrogation is about clarifying the issue. They want Hawke to possibly be able to talk down one side, Hawke is considered a hero by them (whether the title is deserved or not doesn't matter, Hawke is still an icon).


And that is a fair enough assumption. The arishok and idol assumption is just lunatic. No man in Thedas so far has shown the level of prediction it would take to know those two events.

Also if they think the bolded why would Hawke ever calm the rebellion/seperation down?

#70
General User

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Of course Cassandra asked if the things she heard about Hawke were possible! 

That's why she was interviewing Varric in the first place.  She was seeking the truth, as Seekers of Truth are wont to do.

#71
AlexXIV

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esper wrote...

General User wrote...

Cassandra accepted Varric's version of events, I wouldn't say she believed it exactly.

As for her understanding of events prior to her interview with Varric, as I said, that in no way reflects poorly on Cassandra. Establishing a working theory based on what you know, then changing it as new facts come to light is how investigations are supposed to work.


Yes, but there is reasonable events and things that should make you go... Is that even possible? 
Thinkig that Hawke came with the rest of the groups is reasonable. Think that Hawke is anti-chantry. Given what happen in da2 I can see that too.

Thinking that anyhawke has the psyhic abilities to predict what the idol can do and to manipulate the Arishok in that way and the knowing that they would win a champion title for it is just crazy.

It is also crazy to think that Hawke could stop the war. If Hawke is a symbol powerfull enough to calm down either the mage/templars side, the other side would automatically hate Hawke enough to never want to do anything s/he says.


Maybe they only need him to appease one side while they need the Hero of Ferelden (or another person) to influence the other. Anyway, whether it makes sense doesn't matter since Bioware is obviously going this road. Unless they changed plans.

#72
Lazy Jer

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This is the most extreme anti-extremist post I've ever read.

#73
esper

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General User wrote...

Of course Cassandra asked if the things she heard about Hawke were possible! 

That's why she was interviewing Varric in the first place.  She was seeking the truth, as Seekers of Truth are wont to do.


She was seeking Hawke.
Also the seekers of truth clearly believed Varric's fairy tale stories about Hawke untill they captured Varric and could actually asks him.
She actually gets angry when varric first says that Hawke went down in the Deep Roads for money. It is clear that the seeker paints Hawke as a mastermind who had an unrealistic ability to mainpulated people and events that goes, an ability that goes beyond what even the best mind controlling blood mage would be capable off.

#74
esper

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AlexXIV wrote...

esper wrote...

General User wrote...

Cassandra accepted Varric's version of events, I wouldn't say she believed it exactly.

As for her understanding of events prior to her interview with Varric, as I said, that in no way reflects poorly on Cassandra. Establishing a working theory based on what you know, then changing it as new facts come to light is how investigations are supposed to work.


Yes, but there is reasonable events and things that should make you go... Is that even possible? 
Thinkig that Hawke came with the rest of the groups is reasonable. Think that Hawke is anti-chantry. Given what happen in da2 I can see that too.

Thinking that anyhawke has the psyhic abilities to predict what the idol can do and to manipulate the Arishok in that way and the knowing that they would win a champion title for it is just crazy.

It is also crazy to think that Hawke could stop the war. If Hawke is a symbol powerfull enough to calm down either the mage/templars side, the other side would automatically hate Hawke enough to never want to do anything s/he says.


Maybe they only need him to appease one side while they need the Hero of Ferelden (or another person) to influence the other. Anyway, whether it makes sense doesn't matter since Bioware is obviously going this road. Unless they changed plans.


Yeah that won't work, my hero is a mage too.
And also who is to say that the hero would be opposite Hawke, the hero of fereldan has never stated where he/she is on the scale.

#75
Bayz

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It might work with my playthroughs depending on what they have in store for my ladies...