179 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

esper wrote...

Yeah that won't work, my hero is a mage too.
And who is to say that the hero would be opposite Hawke, the hero of ferelden has never stated where he/she is on the scale.

Technically, it can be inferred what side the Hero of Ferelden would be if the protagonist was from the Circle of Ferelden, and asked the new ruler of Ferelden to emancipate his people from the Chantry and the Order of Templars. That is the royal boon that I chose for my Surana Warden, so I imagine I would face the same issue as you: having my Hero and my Champion making similar choices about the mages in the narrative, and both of them were mages as well. I wonder if Anders repeated suggestion for a pro-mage apostate Hawke to be a leader to the mages will be addressed? He makes the suggestion again if Hawke spares him (when they speak at the Gallows).

[esper]

LobselVith8 wrote...

esper wrote...

Yeah that won't work, my hero is a mage too.
And who is to say that the hero would be opposite Hawke, the hero of ferelden has never stated where he/she is on the scale.

Technically, it can be inferred what side the Hero of Ferelden would be if the protagonist was from the Circle of Ferelden, and asked the new ruler of Ferelden to emancipate his people from the Chantry and the Order of Templars. That is the royal boon that I chose for my Surana Warden, so I imagine I would face the same issue as you: having my Hero and my Champion making similar choices about the mages in the narrative, and both of them were mages as well. I wonder if Anders repeated suggestion for a pro-mage apostate Hawke to be a leader to the mages will be addressed? He makes the suggestion again if Hawke spares him (when they speak at the Gallows).

I would like for it to be adressed.  I am patiently waiting for a post-game dlc/expansion. I hope that such a thing will allow us to adress how involved Hawke is in the war: Does s/he stay with the mages/the templars/goes into hiding, and that would be the status in da3. I don't think having three fates is too diffucult to carry over into da3 since Hawke properly only will be mentioned in codexes.  

Edit, my hero was Surana as well and asked for the same boon, so she is pro-mage freedom.

Modifié par esper, 04 novembre 2011 - 07:14 .

[dragonflight288]

When I say all mages, I mean all mages.

Hmm. Does that mean you'll use blood magic to isolate the genome in humans, elves, Kossith, and whatever races might have magic to prevent any human, elf, or whatever from ever wielding magic again? Would that mean killing 5 and 6 year olds who only have magic sensitivity being discovered?

Playing devil's advocate here, nothing personal. But there will always be mages. People are born with the gift and curse of magic everyday and come into their power, everyday. Would you see all the children dead for being mages?

On the templar's side, a warrior must undergo extensive training and gaining a disciplined mind (Alistair's words) to use their abilities. Templar's aren't born. They are made.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zanallen wrote...

I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.

And why is that? 

[CrimsonZephyr]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.

And why is that? 

He doesn't like mages.

Either that or purely for the lulz.

[Killjoy Cutter]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.

And why is that? 

He doesn't like mages.

Either that or purely for the lulz.

I'm actually hoping for a more detailed answer as to why someone would feel that the slaughter of all persons who by accident of birth possess the potential to work magic is justified and desirable...

[Zanallen]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Hmm. Does that mean you'll use blood magic to isolate the genome in humans, elves, Kossith, and whatever races might have magic to prevent any human, elf, or whatever from ever wielding magic again? Would that mean killing 5 and 6 year olds who only have magic sensitivity being discovered?

Playing devil's advocate here, nothing personal. But there will always be mages. People are born with the gift and curse of magic everyday and come into their power, everyday. Would you see all the children dead for being mages?

On the templar's side, a warrior must undergo extensive training and gaining a disciplined mind (Alistair's words) to use their abilities. Templar's aren't born. They are made.

If there was a way to sever all people from the Fade in much the way dwarves are, that would be preferable. But if it came down to it, roving templar death squads would work well enough.

[Zanallen]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm actually hoping for a more detailed answer as to why someone would feel that the slaughter of all persons who by accident of birth possess the potential to work magic is justified and desirable...

There is no more detailed reason. I just don't like mages. I never have. I don't like caster classes. I rarely ever make a mage in games and, when I do, I make them warrior/mage hybrids who are far more warrior than mage or I make them incredibly evil.

[dragonflight288]

If there was a way to sever all people from the Fade in much the way dwarves are, that would be preferable. But if it came down to it, roving templar death squads would work well enough.

I see. And do you have an reasonable justification for Bioware to do this beyond appeasing a minority of gamers? I say minority because most people would be upset over that without logical reasons.

[dragonflight288]

There is no more detailed reason. I just don't like mages. I never have. I don't like caster classes. I rarely ever make a mage in games and, when I do, I make them warrior/mage hybrids who are far more warrior than mage or I make them incredibly evil.

In other words...you just don't like magic. And it's simply personal opinion and not actual fact. Okay. Bioware most likely won't go with that.

[Zanallen]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I see. And do you have an reasonable justification for Bioware to do this beyond appeasing a minority of gamers? I say minority because most people would be upset over that without logical reasons.

Nope. I fully expect Bioware to go back to the status quo, or at best a revised version of the circle system. Without some crazy revelation like everyone becoming mages, I don't see all mages going free as a realistic option. Buuuut, if there is an option to abolish the circles and let the mages be free to govern themselves, there should also be the opposite option: Forcibly imprisoning the mages and killing those who refuse to comply.

[TJPags]

dragonflight288 wrote...

If there was a way to sever all people from the Fade in much the way dwarves are, that would be preferable. But if it came down to it, roving templar death squads would work well enough.

I see. And do you have an reasonable justification for Bioware to do this beyond appeasing a minority of gamers? I say minority because most people would be upset over that without logical reasons.

The point, though, is why can't he have that choice?

Whether it's because he doesn't like mages, or because he wants to RP someone who hates mages, or for the lulz, or because that's what he thinks is best for Thedas, why can't tjhat option be there?

Sort of like how I wanted an option to sell Bethany out to the Templars during DA2 . . . would have fit from a pure RP perspective . . . . yet no dice.

There should absolutely be an option to side with the Templars, even if it means setting up a world in which every mage is killed.

[The Baconer]

TJPags wrote...
The point, though, is why can't he have that choice?

Whether it's because he doesn't like mages, or because he wants to RP someone who hates mages, or for the lulz, or because that's what he thinks is best for Thedas, why can't tjhat option be there?

I wouldn't mind that option.

As long as I get my "New Imperium" ending.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I am still hoping for an option to kill all mages.

And why is that? 

He doesn't like mages.

Either that or purely for the lulz.

I'm actually hoping for a more detailed answer as to why someone would feel that the slaughter of all persons who by accident of birth possess the potential to work magic is justified and desirable...

I actually asked him this very question a few months ago, with the same answer. I've kept it in the back of my mind whenever I read, "I just really want to kill all mages."

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:24 .

[DKJaigen]

TJPags wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

If there was a way to sever all people from the Fade in much the way dwarves are, that would be preferable. But if it came down to it, roving templar death squads would work well enough.

I see. And do you have an reasonable justification for Bioware to do this beyond appeasing a minority of gamers? I say minority because most people would be upset over that without logical reasons.

The point, though, is why can't he have that choice?

Whether it's because he doesn't like mages, or because he wants to RP someone who hates mages, or for the lulz, or because that's what he thinks is best for Thedas, why can't tjhat option be there?

Sort of like how I wanted an option to sell Bethany out to the Templars during DA2 . . . would have fit from a pure RP perspective . . . . yet no dice.

There should absolutely be an option to side with the Templars, even if it means setting up a world in which every mage is killed.

We call that option chaotic stupid and is totally a realism killer for me. In KOTOR i despised how the ls/ds was handeld . We deal in shades of grey and i dont need snuff in my games.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zanallen wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm actually hoping for a more detailed answer as to why someone would feel that the slaughter of all persons who by accident of birth possess the potential to work magic is justified and desirable...

There is no more detailed reason. I just don't like mages. I never have. I don't like caster classes. I rarely ever make a mage in games and, when I do, I make them warrior/mage hybrids who are far more warrior than mage or I make them incredibly evil.

Huh. 

It's pretty obvious where the evil is here...

[AlexXIV]

TJPags wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

If there was a way to sever all people from the Fade in much the way dwarves are, that would be preferable. But if it came down to it, roving templar death squads would work well enough.

I see. And do you have an reasonable justification for Bioware to do this beyond appeasing a minority of gamers? I say minority because most people would be upset over that without logical reasons.

The point, though, is why can't he have that choice?

Whether it's because he doesn't like mages, or because he wants to RP someone who hates mages, or for the lulz, or because that's what he thinks is best for Thedas, why can't tjhat option be there?

Sort of like how I wanted an option to sell Bethany out to the Templars during DA2 . . . would have fit from a pure RP perspective . . . . yet no dice.

There should absolutely be an option to side with the Templars, even if it means setting up a world in which every mage is killed.

Well it's actually like siding with Caesar in FO:NV. But since DA is a series which may go past DA3 your choices will be limited. If it was a stand alone game, maybe. Thing is they would have to retcon this choice for DA4 if they gave it. For the simple reason that they can't make a game with ... no mages at all ... or Thedas ruled by mages ... being optional. You know, how will you do that as a dev? And while I think that hatred is better released in games than in real life I have my doubts that someone is making games just for that.

[TJPags]

AlexXIV wrote...

TJPags wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

If there was a way to sever all people from the Fade in much the way dwarves are, that would be preferable. But if it came down to it, roving templar death squads would work well enough.

I see. And do you have an reasonable justification for Bioware to do this beyond appeasing a minority of gamers? I say minority because most people would be upset over that without logical reasons.

The point, though, is why can't he have that choice?

Whether it's because he doesn't like mages, or because he wants to RP someone who hates mages, or for the lulz, or because that's what he thinks is best for Thedas, why can't tjhat option be there?

Sort of like how I wanted an option to sell Bethany out to the Templars during DA2 . . . would have fit from a pure RP perspective . . . . yet no dice.

There should absolutely be an option to side with the Templars, even if it means setting up a world in which every mage is killed.

Well it's actually like siding with Caesar in FO:NV. But since DA is a series which may go past DA3 your choices will be limited. If it was a stand alone game, maybe. Thing is they would have to retcon this choice for DA4 if they gave it. For the simple reason that they can't make a game with ... no mages at all ... or Thedas ruled by mages ... being optional. You know, how will you do that as a dev? And while I think that hatred is better released in games than in real life I have my doubts that someone is making games just for that.

And you've hit on why I think DA2 pretty much sucks.

Basically, it sets up this epic conflict of mages v templars - which we all know will resolve without us somehow.  After all, as you said, there's no way BW will set up a situation in which there are no mages.  LIkely, they wouldn't set one up in which there was no templars/chantry, either.  Nor can they set one up in which there are 2 highly dvergent world states, since as you said, that sets up a nightmare for DA4.

So, really, what was the point of mages v templars?  None.

But I can still wish, can't I? 

[ReallyRue]

TJPags wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

If there was a way to sever all people from the Fade in much the way dwarves are, that would be preferable. But if it came down to it, roving templar death squads would work well enough.

I see. And do you have an reasonable justification for Bioware to do this beyond appeasing a minority of gamers? I say minority because most people would be upset over that without logical reasons.

The point, though, is why can't he have that choice?

Whether it's because he doesn't like mages, or because he wants to RP someone who hates mages, or for the lulz, or because that's what he thinks is best for Thedas, why can't tjhat option be there?

Sort of like how I wanted an option to sell Bethany out to the Templars during DA2 . . . would have fit from a pure RP perspective . . . . yet no dice.

There should absolutely be an option to side with the Templars, even if it means setting up a world in which every mage is killed.

Personally, I'd be quite happy to see that as an option, so long as "have templars kill all mages everywhere" or "set up new Tevinter and practice blood magic on everyone" aren't the only options. If those were the extremes, but there was a neutral solution as well as some moderate options. For instance -

-The kill all mages one could come from siding with the indepenant templars, for instance.
-Putting mages back in the Circles could come from siding with the Chantry itself.
-And then there could be two mage options (one more extreme Tevinter-style, and one more moderate).
-And a neutral option, where both Chantry/templars and mages make concessions, like having a Circle controlled by mages, but with templars in case they are needed.

[Zanallen]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Huh. 

It's pretty obvious where the evil is here...

Really?

I'm evil because I have a profound dislike for fictional beings?

To quote you from an earlier discussion: LoL. Whatever.

[DKJaigen]

Zanallen wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Huh. 

It's pretty obvious where the evil is here...

Really?

I'm evil because I have a profound dislike for fictional beings?

To quote you from an earlier discussion: LoL. Whatever.

Go play FATAL thats a game far more suited for you.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zanallen wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Huh. 

It's pretty obvious where the evil is here...

Really?

I'm evil because I have a profound dislike for fictional beings?

To quote you from an earlier discussion: LoL. Whatever.

Yeah, didn't think you'd comprehend.  

Let's restore a little context here:  

Zanallen wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm actually hoping for a more detailed answer as to why someone would feel that the slaughter of all persons who by accident of birth possess the potential to work magic is justified and desirable...

There is no more detailed reason. I just don't like mages. I never have. I don't like caster classes. I rarely ever make a mage in games and, when I do, I make them warrior/mage hybrids who are far more warrior than mage or I make them incredibly evil.

You're projecting whatever irrational belief it is you have about mages, on the game world. 

Oh well.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:00 .

[Zanallen]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Yeah, didn't think you'd comprehend. 

Oh well. 

 

Just like you don't comprehend the chosen one argument, right?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zanallen wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Yeah, didn't think you'd comprehend. 

Oh well. 

Just like you don't comprehend the chosen one argument, right?

The only thing to comprehend about the "chosen one" argument is that it is a pathetic pile of useless crap. 

As noted, your irrational beliefs about and hatred of mages, whatever's going on there with you, doesn't justify the slaughter of people who are only "guilty" of an accident of birth.  Of course, you've never contemplated the issue beyond "I just wanna kill em", have you? 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:03 .

[Bayz]

DKJaigen wrote...

Go play FATAL thats a game far more suited for you.

Ouch...I mean yeah the guy is posting like an **** but is it necessary to get that radical, mate?