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My concerns on Star Wars: The Old Republic


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#1
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 Where do I begin?

 I first heard about TOR back in 2008 and never even played a BioWare game by then. I consider myself to be a pretty big Star Wars fan even back then, but I never bought Knights of the Old Republic 1 or 2 because, well, I don't know. I think it's because I didn't recongnize the games. Like, I saw the cover of the first game at the store and I knew that it was a Star Wars game...but I never purchased it because it was just too enigmatic to me. That's the best way I can explain it. I had already read some of the EU novels at the time, I watch both the micro-series and the prequels, and I guess another reason for not playing the games was because I was done with Star Wars for the time being. 

2008 was the year I got back into Star Wars when the previews for The Force Unleashed started showing. While the game disappointed me(it was good, but definitely nothing special), I became more focused on Star Wars. I started lurking around the The Old Republic forums and watching the developer videos. By the way the developers talked about the MMO, I thought it was creative and inspired, and I was really excited with the E3 2009 trailer. Eventually, BioWare kept pushing the release date back,  and I started to lose my hype for the game.

That, and I was starting to take a more pessimistic view on the EU. To me, it was just more Jedi vs. Sith nonsense; same old, same old. If anything, I started to feel like the EU was making the Star Wars universe smaller. I was still determined to play the MMO because this was still a BioWare game. 

It wasn't until I saw the Return trailer, that my view on the MMO started to take a shift. 

Wasn't Dash Rendar enough? When will EU writers stop making these Han Solo clones? In the trailer, the viewer can infer that the smuggler is protective about his ship. That he's cocky. That he's laidback. Hmmm, gee, he sort of reminds me of someone. Keep in mind that what happens in this trailer is canon. The trailers lead up to the game. In other words, that's a real character. The ship he's piloting even looks like the Millenium Falcon. It doesn't have the intersection at the front of the ship(at least as far as I could tell), but it has that distinct round shape and that - what do you call it? - blaster thing(you know, similiar to the one that Luke was using when they were escaping from the Death Star in Episode 4) on the side.

It is after this trailer that I started to become more disenchanted with the game. I started looking at the game as a whole. But mostly, I take issue with the fact that you can be a good Sith and a bad Jedi. I get it. It's not all black and white, but they don't have to get rid of what makes being a Jedi a Jedi and a Sith a Sith. Now the lines between the two Force user groups begin to blur. They lose their distinction. Each becomes a group that has only one difference: which side they're on(Republic and Empire). 

In the article, Daniel Erickson justifies it by putting it like this:

"I always take it back to the World War 2 analogy: if you were a very evil British soldier in World War 2, you wouldn't join the ****s; you were torturing them in the basement," Erickson explained. "You're a bad man, but that doesn't mean you're going to leave your country. You're going to do what you're trying to do in the worst possible way."


*sigh* The thing is, the Jedi aren't the common soldier. There can't be such thing as a bad Jedi because that would mean that he or she succumbed to the dark side. Anakin is already a stretch. He did bad things, but he was almost at the dark side. He was at the edge. He was a different case. But according to an IGN article, you could potentially get all the darkside points you want and still be a Jedi.

The plan is to make the Light side and Dark side system more of a "customization," according to James Ohlen.


See, they seem to be compromising the identity of the Jedi and Sith for customization. This is what I don't like. But I think the problem stems mostly from the fact that there are "sides" so the speak. You're either Republic or Empire. They should explain why the Smuggler are on the Republic and why the Bounty Hunters on the Empire's side. I mean, aren't they technically neutral? 

Even in the EU, Boba Fett wasn't just in it for the credits, but for justice as well. Han Solo was a criminal. The Empire under Palpatine had enough money to pay these people. Bounty hunters should be a "neutral" faction. Even the Republic during the Clone Wars paid it's own bounty hunters. Smugglers are breaking the law.  I think it's lazy of the devs to just label a class as either "Republic" or "Empire" because not only does it not have to be that way, but I think it limits options within the MMO.

I think the writers of the MMO could be suffering from the same thing that the other EU writers suffer from: the belief that everything has to be like the movies. Star Wars was inspired by the likes of Greek mythology, history, movies and seriels from the 1930s and 40s like Flash Gordon, and so on. The writers of Star Wars: The Old Republic(and likewise, the EU writers) should be looking towards the original inspirations of Star Wars instead of making everything like the OT or PT. Or better yet, come up with more lore. A lot of what we've seen of the game so far are stuff we've seen before. Mandalorians, Sith, protocol droids, Zabraks, Twi'leks, Tatooine, Sarlaacs, etc. All I'm saying is that they could focus more on creating lore and making the Star Wars universe seem bigger instead of rehashing the same stuff.

"Oh, Han Solo was a smuggler and he was a good guy; therefore all smugglers must be on the Republic's side".

Another thing, I'm worried about how related bounty hunters are to Mandalorians. Almost all of the screenshots and videos I've seen have a bounty hunter flying on a jetpack and wearing Mandalorian armor. Oh, and you can turn someone into carbonite. 

I think people like bounty hunters in their distinctness. They're not like your typical troopers. But so far, we've seen bounty hunters that are routhly the same as each other with the same equipment. Power armor. Flame throwers. Pull ropes. Everything that we've had in the movies and the EU. 

I look at Embo as a good example of a bounty hunter. He's "foreign". He's not just carrying a blaster like everyone else. He's not the people you find everyday. I think when people first saw the bounty hunters in The Empire Strikes Back, people were thinking about the same thing. They're different from everyone else. They're not your typical guy with a gun. The bounty hunters in TOR seem to lack this "foreignness". This distinctness. They all look the same instead of being different.

And do we really need two classes for the Jedi and two classes for the Sith? 

This is what concerns me about Star Wars: The Old Republic. From what we've actually seen of the game, it's obvious that the gameplay is nothing special(even kind of boring) and  the graphics are bad even by MMO standards. That's why they have to make it up with the story. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to play the game. I'm going to see whether BioWare can truly give the "rich deep story" they kept harping about in the early developer diaries. But until then, the story aspect doesn't look promising.

There is a possibility that they could make the characters in the MMO exactly like the ones from the PT and OT. And the way they set up their classes doesn't look promising either. It doesn't look any different from any other we've seen in the novels or the movies. But I'll take a leap of faith. Hopefully, I'll eat my words.

Anywho, discuss. 

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 05 novembre 2011 - 01:49 .


#2
AshedMan

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My worry about SW:TOR is that it's just another standard MMO with a Star Wars skin.

#3
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I wish it wasn't a MMO at all, no matter how good or bad it might be as such. My PC isn't powerful enough to handle TOR, and Bioware said there aren't any plans to port it to consoles - so I'm just out of luck altogether, unless they change their minds.

#4
Andarthiel_Demigod

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Yea, I'm not too keen on TOR either. I think it's a wasted opportunity, why go with this when they could have just as easily made KOTOR3 which the fans actually want. And from what I've seen in the trailer, it doesn't look too remarkable. When it comes to MMOs, I'm very picky, the only actual MMO I enjoyed and stuck with was Guild Wars and personally I would much rather spend my time on Guild Wars 2(when it comes out) than TOR.

#5
Ryllen Laerth Kriel

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I'm not worried about SW:TOR at all. But that's because I'm not going to play it. MMOs are souless cash cows filled with repetitive fetch missions or numbered kill bounties where the player can't have any influence on the world or create any story for their character.

#6
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I'd be lying if I said I wasn't impressed by the trailer the OP linked to - it looks pretty bad ass. I don't know for sure though why it must be a MMO as opposed to just being KOTOR 3 as Andarthiel pointed out.

I want to play this game, seriously. KOTOR is one of my favorite games of all time and I've been dying for a true sequel, but I feel a bit... excluded, for lack of a better word. It's such a shame.

Modifié par greengoron89, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:06 .


#7
Zanallen

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TOR is a MMO and not KotOR 3 because Lucas Arts didn't want a KotOR 3.

#8
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Ah, that figures. I guess they're trying to undo the damage caused by that other Star Wars MMO that failed.

#9
chunkyman

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I stay away from MMO's (both because they look boring and I'm extremely cheap), but being a Star Wars nerd made me watch all the trailers for it.

I don't think it will do well honestly, the combat looks a little stale. Hopefully the story can make up for that.

#10
frustratemyself

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I'm not worried about SW:TOR at all. But that's because I'm not going to play it.


^ This. Care-factor about MMO's is zero.

#11
Zanallen

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greengoron89 wrote...

Ah, that figures. I guess they're trying to undo the damage caused by that other Star Wars MMO that failed.


Probably. I doubt we would have gotten an Old Republic anything if Star Wars Galaxy was still going strong.

#12
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Every Jedi which does too much evil should be cast aside (exiled).

#13
RPGamer13

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I have a friend playing The Old Republic and I was going to give it a try along with her. But I won't be home much at all in 2012. And if I were to be home, it'd be uncertain if I had the money and how much time she actually has to play it.

My first MMO was Final Fantasy XI and I had fun. For the most part, the last few months I played it weren't, but at least I ran into some nice Japanese players along the way and got in on some good party stuff.

#14
ErichHartmann

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AshedMan wrote...

My worry about SW:TOR is that it's just another standard MMO with a Star Wars skin.


That's the overall vibe I get from reading posts by beta testers who don't mind breaking the NDA.  I'm a lot more interested in Guild Wars 2 (no monthly fee is lot more desirable too).  Looks more innovative and fun.  KOTOR is one of my all time favorite RPGs but I am too burned out by monthly fee MMO's to give it a shot.     

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 05 novembre 2011 - 10:35 .


#15
Seagloom

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I'm also in the Guild Wars 2 camp. There are too many questions surrounding SWtOR muddying its appeal. A few weeks back I caught a podcast describing the RPG elements that sounded way more appealing than I feared. It did pique my interest. Just not enough to preorder this game. I rather give it a year to iron out any gameplay balance issues, incorporate s/s romances, add areas and the like. Even then, I will still pass unless it gets outstanding word of mouth.

Monthly fees are a turn off. The Star Wars setting isn't an instant draw, so I'm not too concerned about the EU and in-universe storytelling aspects. That also means I'm not too excited because it's Star Wars either. :P

Plus after finding out what happened to the Exile in the "KotOR3" novel I rather pretend the story ended on a huge question mark following KotOR2.

#16
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Its really good.

#17
Guest_Capt. Obvious_*

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Zanallen wrote...

TOR is a MMO and not KotOR 3 because Lucas Arts didn't want a KotOR 3.


Where did you hear this?

greengoron89 wrote...

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't impressed by the trailer the OP linked to - it looks pretty bad ass. I don't know for sure though why it must be a MMO as opposed to just being KOTOR 3 as Andarthiel pointed out.

I want to play this game, seriously. KOTOR is one of my favorite games of all time and I've been dying for a true sequel, but I feel a bit... excluded, for lack of a better word. It's such a shame.


The trailer was impressive, and we have Blur to thank for that. But while I was watching it, I was also disappointed that they took the easy way out and made the smuggler pretty much a Han Solo clone. It makes me suspicious that they'll sacrifice creativity for similiarity in order to satisfy the casual fans who've only seen the movies.

Now, I have nothing against casual fans. I think if the story and characters becomes simplified and diluted, it's the developers' fault. 

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 05 novembre 2011 - 01:51 .


#18
Elhanan

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Personally, I like the fact there are 8 base classes, with two Force using classes for each side. I am unlikely to ever be able to play a melee class without Pause funtionality, but am able to handle the ranged version well enough to join the MMO fray next month.

And I love the idea of allowing the SWTOR characters to actually RP a little more with the dialogue choices, as opposed to simply selecting Paragon & Renegade selections a la ME. More Grey/ Neutral gear may be needed perhaps, but I am encouraged by the expanded system.

One reason for me is due to my agoraphobic dislike of crowds, I am avoiding the city world of Coruscant as much as possible, at least early on in play. This was a major factor for me to choose a Dark Side related character at launch. But I am also uncomfortable playing unrestrained thugs of chaos, so being able to pick and choose my 'kind' of Evil character is a good thing. I would much rather play a Cardinal Richelieu from the Three Musketeers, or a Liam Devlin copied from the pages of a Jack Higgens novel than some Mwuhahaha wannabe.

But a main reason for me to excited about SWTOR being my first MMO, is that it does not leave the RPG out of the acronym; tis the primary accent, IMO. One may avoid the throngs if you choose, and simply enjoy the content solo. I am interested in the stories; not the social interaction or PvP.

#19
Druss99

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I agree with most of what Capt. Obvious said. My biggest problems though are that its an MMO, I have absolutely zero interest in MMO's especially ones masquerading as a story RPG. The last thing I want to deal with when I'm trying to enjoy a good story is other people. It also doesn't really look or feel like Star Wars to me, for all the copy pasting thats going on the only thing I've seen that gives off a Star Wars vibe is Tatooine, even the lightsabres look wrong, they look like plastic toy replica's. Also for an elegant weapon from a more civilized time they sure have been used in alot of galaxy wide wars.

#20
DarkDragon777

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I'm sure most people who have played real Star Wars RPG's know it's going to suck.

#21
Elhanan

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DarkDragon777 wrote...

I'm sure most people who have played real Star Wars RPG's know it's going to suck.


Two reasons perhaps: tis called the vacuum of space for a reason, and the difference in pressure that occurs when certain overly biased, prejudgemental critics create when their ears pop. Must be from the loose gravel when they shake their heads.....

Posted Image

#22
MerinTB

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1. Almost universally I'm not a fan of MMO's, despite trying MANY. A small handful I played I enjoyed at various levels, but only two did I play more than the free one month with purchase (or alloted beta time) - and one of those I was in the Beta for as well so I did really like it (City of Heroes.) It wasn't the only beta I was in - of the MMO's I played, I beta'd 90% of them, so...
2. Star Wars isn't my thing, either. I hate the concept of Jedi. Not from the original trilogy, they were okay archetypes then. What they've become since the prequel trilogy. :( But even the post Return of the Jedi stuff didn't work too well for me (save KotOR, but only because it was an awesome game DESPITE the setting.)
3. I was more interested in NWO, myself. Cryptic was the only MMO company to bring me back repeatedly, plus they were talking about Neverwinter not as an MMO but as a multiplayer online game without the MASSIVE. But then they got bought by the emperors of free-to-play MMOs, and NWO is being overhauled to be yet-another-MMO, and my interest is GONE.


ALL THAT SAID...

I have a friend who was in the beta. He's NOT an MMO fan, either, though we'd tried a few in the past (our best experience - Dark Age of Camelot, and I think (other than EVE) that was the last one he'd played... maybe when we beta'd Earth & Beyond...) but he LOVED TOR. Now he actually is something of a Star Wars fan, so maybe there's something there... but when I asked how solo-able it is, he said that's all he did and he was having a blast.

Talking to him kept me from cancelling my pre-order.

I have reservations, as outlined above - but I'm going to give it a go.

Modifié par MerinTB, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:35 .


#23
KenKenpachi

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From what I've seen they should have just made an MMO lite, that used the RPG features and allowed for team play, and cross console port sells. Honestly I'm not sure how it will do, the Star Wars Fans will buy it for sure unless it screws up the canon more, as some of the Older fans are pulling there hairs out over the clone wars as is, so it might break the fan base.

WOW players I think will stick to WOW. I guess it depends on the games price, and the membership fee's.

As to the Rest OP I really wonder how much of it is from the dev's and writers, or Marching Orders from Lucas, that man just can't let Star Wars run its course and collect his share. And the more he takes control of it the more it turns to crap it seems.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:43 .


#24
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The fans will clamor if there are canon issues, but they won't do anything other than pull their hair out - they'll still play the games and buy the new editions of the films all the same.

Star Wars has had poor canon continuity from the very start anyway, so fans should be used to the idea by now - especially when it comes to all of this Expanded Universe crap, which is not really "canon" by definition anyway.

#25
KenKenpachi

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Lol don't go typing that post on the Mandalorian Mercs Forum, or The Force. net Goron, unless you have one hell of a flameshield. In the Formers case with the changes to the Mandalorians in the Clone Wars the site has a rule on not having talks like that given it nearly made a splinter group. And back in the Vong stories just do a net search when Chewie was kill Death threats were sent in, in fact one of the writers had FBI protection detailed to him for over a month over it.

Plus some Stuff with the 501st.  I mean all of those are more like the Klingon Fans among Star Trek fans, but they also buy the most stuff, and would have the largest impact if they just went "Screw you" and left the fan base.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:54 .