1467 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
Because it sounds like waste of time,

It would take.... barely any resources to do this.

It's just programming difficulty changes and dialogue. 

[tonnactus]

Darji wrote...

It has MP horde mode so they could get gears of war players with that.

Alright,but this isnt the only good mode in Gears and not enough. Beast mode and capture the flag to add some.

[Il Divo]

Nohvarr wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

This is an epic fail and nothing else.

Explain how an optional feature is an epic fail?

Well, even an optional feature can be an epic fail. It's just that, by virtue of being optional, we have the option of avoiding that epic fail.

[Nohvarr]

tonnactus wrote...

Name only one example that isnt a Bioware game.

Well as far as streamlining in general

Witcher 2 cut down significantly on the character tree as opposed to the first game.

Skyrim has been streamlined from the usual Elder Scrolls sequels and as always it’s easy to bypass a lot of the game if you don’t want to bother with it.

Deus Ex: Human revolution was also streamlined and again you could skip a fair amount of dialogue and side quest if you didn’t want to bother with them.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Nohvarr wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

May i ask why is Bioware doing this?

To give gamers the option to play the game in the manner they want to play the game.

Did you even read the rest of my post? That's exactly the problem they want to please everyone, rather then people who love the Mass Effect series.

[tonnactus]

Nohvarr wrote...


Explain how an optional feature is an epic fail?

This feature has a purpose that wouldnt be fullfilled and in the end only wasted development time and money.

[Balek-Vriege]

Darji wrote...

/snip
...And I am sorry but if you really believe that you can satisfy an Action game fan and a RPG fan than you are totally wrong...

/snip

I do believe it's possible and I think it has already been done in Mass Effect 1 and 2.  What evidence do you have that a shooter fan cannot also be an RPG fan and vice versa.  Lets break it down:

-RPG fans like to customize their story, characters and choices.
-Shooter/combat fans like really good and fluid combat and interesting battles.  MP
-Having a game with great customization, story, choices, combat, interesting battles and MP logically would appeal to the casual/majority of players from both groups.
-The groups it won't appeal to are the avid hardcore I hate any game that has x,y or z in it from both groups.  Thankfully the extreme in most cases is never the plurality.

People don't think in monolithic views (well, most people don't...).

And I take this even a step further by saying that the  so called RPG mode will be very shallow compared to the action oriented combat.  For example stats wont really matter in combat but rather your aimig skill.

How is RPG mode more shallow just by the existence of Action Mode?  I don't get it.  Does it magically turn off all RPG elements in RPG mode as well?

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:12 .

[Nohvarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

This is an epic fail and nothing else.

Explain how an optional feature is an epic fail?

Well, even an optional feature can be an epic fail. It's just that, by virtue of being optional, we have the option of avoiding that epic fail.

I feel to be classified as an Epic fail it has to do more than bother people on a philosophical level.

This feature has a purpose that wouldnt be fullfilled and in the end only wasted development time and money.

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play. If you're doing a full Paragon run through and only want to play as a particular class then this mode is for you. So they've given people the option to play as they want, which is a demand they often see, thus satisfying people who buy thisgame, maybe not fans o classic RPG' but those are not their only customers.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:14 .

[Il Divo]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Did you even read the rest of my post? That's exactly the problem they want to please everyone, rather then people who love the Mass Effect series.

Someone can't love Mass Effect for its gameplay? I mean, I personally don't, but I fail to see why someone else wouldn't be allowed to.

[pika9519]

I feel like this would expose more people to the game. Some people may start off with action mode, be exposed to a taste of the story, and then out of curiosity test out the RPG aspects of the game (and maybe even try ME1 and ME2). I see what Bioware meant by being a great starting point.

[Il Divo]

Nohvarr wrote...

I feel to be classified as an Epic fail it has to do more than bother people on a philosophical level.

Ah, gotcha. We just seem to be defining epic fail differently. classification can be difficult some times. My apologies.

Modifié par Il Divo, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:14 .

[Darji]

Nohvarr wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Name only one example that isnt a Bioware game.

Well as far as streamlining in general

Witcher 2 cut down significantly on the character tree as opposed to the first game.

Skyrim has been streamlined from the usual Elder Scrolls sequels and as always it’s easy to bypass a lot of the game if you don’t want to bother with it.

Deus Ex: Human revolution was also streamlined and again you could skip a fair amount of dialogue and side quest if you didn’t want to bother with them.

Yes the witcher 2 was streamlined but all these decsions did not take anything away from the RPG elements and experience.

Skyrim:; I havent played this game yet but Bethesda is in the same category but here its different because they dont focus on a story but more about an open world with huge focus on exploring. MAss Effect never had such a thing and never will have it.

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in the last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Modifié par Darji, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:15 .

[Il Divo]

Darji wrote...

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Obviously we must have played two entirely different versions of Human Revolution...

[tonnactus]

Nohvarr wrote...


Deus Ex: Human revolution was also streamlined and again you could skip a fair amount of dialogue and side quest if you didn’t want to bother with them.

That is bull****. I could skip dialogue and ignore Sidequests in Dragon Age Origins and also both Kotors,but this doesnt make it streamlined. Those options were always there. And in Deus Ex, players actually loose significant experience points by loosing the speech challenges.

Modifié par tonnactus, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[Darji]

Il Divo wrote...

Darji wrote...

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Obviously we must have played two entirely different versions of Human Revolution...

Or maybe you havent played Deus Ex 1 at all.  DEH was even better than the first game because it had great controls and a great stealth system. You really had the choice what to do while in ME2 they always try to make you believe you have a choice but in reallity you dont.

[ElitePinecone]

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


Explain how an optional feature is an epic fail?

This feature has a purpose that wouldnt be fullfilled and in the end only wasted development time and money.

Nonsense. 

Who are you to say it's wasted money? 

Particularly when a lot of people might appreciate the Story and Action modes. Clearly, Bioware think enough will to make their investment worth it. I've seen the demand for a mode that makes combat trivially easy, and shutting off dialogue choices might make for an interesting cinematic linear story. 

Or... is it just a waste of money when it's something you won't use or don't like? 

[Nohvarr]

Darji wrote...
Yes the witcher 2 was streamlined but all these dcsions did not take anything away from the RPG elements and experience.

And what evidance do you have that the same is the case here? I just watched a video clip of a character I had the option of saving in ME 1, showing up during a mission in ME 3.

Skyrim:; I havent played this game yet but Bethesda is in the same category but here its different because they dont focus on a story but more about an open world with huge focus on exploring. MAss Effect never had such a thing and never will have it.

Yet you can skip that big open world if you want, despite it being a major portion of the game. In fact during a speed run it was beaten in two hours.

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Bull, they tried to appease shooter fans with boss fights, and the cover based combat system. It was still a good game but a lot of the changes they made were an attempt to fit in with mainstream gamers. Or shall I go into detail about  the riot that happened on heir forum when they annouced recharging health?

[Merci357]

Darji wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Darji wrote...

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Obviously we must have played two entirely different versions of Human Revolution...

Or maybe you havent played Deus Ex 1 at all.  DEH was even better than the first game because it had great controls and a great stealth system. You really had the choice what to do while in ME2 they always try to make you believe you have a choice but in reallity you dont.

So it had great choice, great controls, and was even better then the first game, but you decided it's no longer a RPG? Yeah, right.

[Balek-Vriege]

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


Explain how an optional feature is an epic fail?

This feature has a purpose that wouldnt be fullfilled and in the end only wasted development time and money.

Dialogue is probably managed by scripts (I don't think there is any other way).  I would like to see someone explain to me how possibly adding a few more simple lines of scripting per script conversation is detrimental to development, money and time.

If they already know how the conversation is going to go, then adding a few more lines to create an "auto" version of the conversation can't be too hard for pro scripters.  I would say like 5-10 minutes max (the time is takes to type the added lines).  Of course this is just my subjective, somewhat uninformed opinion based off my very basic experience with scripting.

[Nohvarr]

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


Deus Ex: Human revolution was also streamlined and again you could skip a fair amount of dialogue and side quest if you didn’t want to bother with them.

That is bull****. I could skip dialogue and ignore Sidequests in Dragon Age Origins and also both Kotors,but this doesnt make it streamlined. Those options were always there. And in Deus Ex, players actually loose significant experience points by loosing the speech challenges.

The option still exists, and here by using these modes you lose out on the expierence of doing it yourself, but the option still exists. As for Deus Ex specifically, the original game had skills plus augs, this DE: HR just has Augs and an admittedly more engaging hacking system. So yeah, streamlined.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:23 .

[Darji]

Merci357 wrote...

Darji wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Darji wrote...

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Obviously we must have played two entirely different versions of Human Revolution...

Or maybe you havent played Deus Ex 1 at all.  DEH was even better than the first game because it had great controls and a great stealth system. You really had the choice what to do while in ME2 they always try to make you believe you have a choice but in reallity you dont.

So it had great choice, great controls, and was even better then the first game, but you decided it's no longer a RPG? Yeah, right.

It never was a RPG. Deus EX 1 wasnt a RPG either.

[Il Divo]

Merci357 wrote...

So it had great choice, great controls, and was even better then the first game, but you decided it's no longer a RPG? Yeah, right.

I'm going to go with this....what kind of crap logic is that?

[tonnactus]

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

[krislandis]

I am constantly amazed by how bent out of shape people get over stuff like this. Most people seemed to want the option to play how they like. Now it's confirmed they have that, but they're even more upset. Is it one of those "well we wanted the game to be ONLY our way"?

[tonnactus]

Nohvarr wrote...

Yup but the option still exists, and here by using these modes you lose out on the expierence of doing it yourself, but the option still exists.

I dont any rpg where the option of skipping dialogue didnt exist...

But this made it streamlined and turn it into in action mode. The player still have to decide which dialogue is worth it and not the game doing it for him or her.