1467 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Ummmm people buy games that give them things they like and allow them to play the way they want.. So by giving people the option of playing it in action mode they potentially increase the number of sales. I don't see why the desire to make a profit precludes my statement being tue

[Balek-Vriege]

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Question:  If it works, wouldn't it be worth it?

And if the time was minimal to implement more complicated dialogue scripts to govern auto-convo option, then is it a big loss if they don't bring in a gazillion sales?

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:26 .

[AdmiralCheez]

tonnactus wrote...

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

And what's wrong with selling millions of copies?

Seriously, to have a deep, smart series like ME3 gain mainstream popularity...  That'd be awesome.  People might start making deep, smart games more often.

[dreman9999]

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


Explain how an optional feature is an epic fail?

This feature has a purpose that wouldnt be fullfilled and in the end only wasted development time and money.

What? Your saying no one would play these modes?
Ha, it's like this guy doesn't understand that people do play the game on casual.

Bayonnetta has a one button mode that makesthe game a cake walk. Does it make the game any worse or less then the pinnical of action games on normal to hardest setting, no.

In the end with ME3, your still getting the rpg part of ME. Who cares how other people play their game or how bw let other people the game they waythey want to, as long as you and meget to play the game the way we want it's fine.

[Darji]

Nohvarr wrote...

Darji wrote...
Yes the witcher 2 was streamlined but all these dcsions did not take anything away from the RPG elements and experience.

And what evidance do you have that the same is the case here? I just watched a video clip of a character I had the option of saving in ME 1, showing up during a mission in ME 3.

Skyrim:; I havent played this game yet but Bethesda is in the same category but here its different because they dont focus on a story but more about an open world with huge focus on exploring. MAss Effect never had such a thing and never will have it.

Yet you can skip that big open world if you want, despite it being a major portion of the game. In fact during a speed run it was beaten in two hours.

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Bull, they tried to appease shooter fans with boss fights, and the cover based combat system. It was still a good game but a lot of the changes they made were an attempt to fit in with mainstream gamers. Or shall I go into detail about  the riot that happened on heir forum when they annouced recharging health?

1. Just look at the reccent history and games from Bioware. They tried to streamline RPGs since KOTOR and they failed and failed and failed. They only succeed with origins becasue they bought alot of RPG features back the older and now newer games were missing.  CD RED was listening to their fans and they delivered a fantastic RPG Experience while Bioware was ignoring and even insulting fans about their rants during the DA2 developement and look what they got for this.

2. Elder scrolls game are about the exploration and huge world if you want to skip that you probably should skip the whole game. And yes the game was beaten in 2 hours by people who know where to go and what to do. a normal player can beat ME2 easily in 8 hours even without knowing what to do.

3. These changes were made becasue it was the new direction shooter games went. It was not to please the casual crowed like Bioware tries to do. All the mechanics Deus EX had would never work 10 years later. They were jsut outdated, The philosophy behind this game however never really changed.

[Merci357]

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Obviously different people have different preferences - and that doesn't impact me in any shape or form as long as said "RPG" mode is the game experience the previous game offered.

Why is it a bad thing to draw in more customers, if you don't abandon the old fans for it?

[Nohvarr]

But this made it streamlined and turn it into in action mode. The player still have to decide which dialogue is worth it and not the game doing it for him or her.

Ummmm, but by activating the 'Action Mode' a player (who has paid money for the game) is saying I don't want to make every decision during this run through and would rather concentrate more on the gameplay. So Bioware gives them the tools to do just that without impacting the expierence for other who decide differently.

[dreman9999]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Question:  If it works, wouldn't it be worth it?

And if the time was minimal to implement more complicated dialogue scripts to govern auto-convo option, then is it a big loss if they don't bring in a gazillion sales?

Based on the demo, and the fact that the script is larger than ME1 and ME2., it's clear dialogue is not cut at all. 

[Mister Mida]

Okay, so it has a 'shutar' mode. Are you really surprised? Remember: Bioware wants CoD's audience.

[Shepard the Leper]

Merci357 wrote...

Why is it a bad thing to draw in more customers, if you don't abandon the old fans for it?

Well, apparently, some people think they're vastly superior and don't want lesser creatures joining their hobby.

[Darji]

dreman9999 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Question:  If it works, wouldn't it be worth it?

And if the time was minimal to implement more complicated dialogue scripts to govern auto-convo option, then is it a big loss if they don't bring in a gazillion sales?

Based on the demo, and the fact that the script is larger than ME1 and ME2., it's clear dialogue is not cut at all. 

like the script was large in ME and ME2 to begin with....

[Il Divo]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Why is it a bad thing to draw in more customers, if you don't abandon the old fans for it?

Well, apparently, some people think they're vastly superior and don't want lesser creatures joining their hobby.

Pretty much this. It really is amazing how much people attach elitism to their hobbies.

[Darji]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Why is it a bad thing to draw in more customers, if you don't abandon the old fans for it?

Well, apparently, some people think they're vastly superior and don't want lesser creatures joining their hobby.

Yeah I am sorry but I dont care if my grandma can enjoy this game now to iff I cant enjoy it anymore because they are getting more and more dumbed down.

[slimgrin]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seriously, to have a deep, smart series like ME3 gain mainstream popularity...  

Lol, Mass Effect is mainstream.

Modifié par slimgrin, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:32 .

[tonnactus]

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Dialogue is probably managed by scripts (I don't think there is any other way).  I would like to see someone explain to me how possibly adding a few more simple lines of scripting per script conversation is detrimental to development, money and time.

Jesse Houston himself:


One feature that was present in this early build is a set of game play
modes that are in development. In the beta code they are referred to as
“action mode”, “story mode” and “RPG mode”. We want to stress that these
features are still in the early stages of development and will receive
considerable iteration and refinement.


If this is really so simple, it actually would be done. But with thousands lines of dialogue its not this simple.(not even with the choices regarding the Conrad Verner in Mass Effect 2)

Modifié par tonnactus, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:40 .

[dreman9999]

Darji wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Darji wrote...
Yes the witcher 2 was streamlined but all these dcsions did not take anything away from the RPG elements and experience.

And what evidance do you have that the same is the case here? I just watched a video clip of a character I had the option of saving in ME 1, showing up during a mission in ME 3.

Skyrim:; I havent played this game yet but Bethesda is in the same category but here its different because they dont focus on a story but more about an open world with huge focus on exploring. MAss Effect never had such a thing and never will have it.

Yet you can skip that big open world if you want, despite it being a major portion of the game. In fact during a speed run it was beaten in two hours.

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Bull, they tried to appease shooter fans with boss fights, and the cover based combat system. It was still a good game but a lot of the changes they made were an attempt to fit in with mainstream gamers. Or shall I go into detail about  the riot that happened on heir forum when they annouced recharging health?

1. Just look at the reccent history and games from Bioware. They tried to streamline RPGs since KOTOR and they failed and failed and failed. They only succeed with origins becasue they bought alot of RPG features back the older and now newer games were missing.  CD RED was listening to their fans and they delivered a fantastic RPG Experience while Bioware was ignoring and even insulting fans about their rants during the DA2 developement and look what they got for this.

2. Elder scrolls game are about the exploration and huge world if you want to skip that you probably should skip the whole game. And yes the game was beaten in 2 hours by people who know where to go and what to do. a normal player can beat ME2 easily in 8 hours even without knowing what to do.

3. These changes were made becasue it was the new direction shooter games went. It was not to please the casual crowed like Bioware tries to do. All the mechanics Deus EX had would never work 10 years later. They were jsut outdated, The philosophy behind this game however never really changed.

1.What?  Bw always list to their fans. Also, origins is a hard core rpg. It turth, the problem is that so many people have different ideas of what should be a rpg. Witcher 2's dev just did everything the hardcore rpg elitist wanted. No way could just anyone play Witcher 2.

3. The changes was put in place to let more people play the game. And it's put ina way that it does not effect current fans in a bit. If we can play the game the way we want to then it's fine that everyone else can play the game they want to.

[ElitePinecone]

Darji wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Why is it a bad thing to draw in more customers, if you don't abandon the old fans for it?

Well, apparently, some people think they're vastly superior and don't want lesser creatures joining their hobby.

Yeah I am sorry but I dont care if my grandma can enjoy this game now to iff I cant enjoy it anymore because they are getting more and more dumbed down.

I'll ask: have you watched the demo footage?

Watch it. All of it. Then come back and tell me ME3 is being dumbed down. 

[AdmiralCheez]

slimgrin wrote...

Lol, Mass Effect is mainstream.

Then huzzah, there is hope for humanity.

[Nohvarr]

CD RED was listening to their fans and they delivered a fantastic RPG Experience while Bioware was ignoring and even insulting fans about their rants during the DA2 developement and look what they got for this.

Mass Effect 3 still being one of the most anticipated games next year?

Also Bioware did listen to their fans. That’s why most of the changes in ME 2 were made. You can dislike the change, but it’s source was fan feedback

2. Elder scrolls game are about the exploration and huge world if you want to skip that you probably should skip the whole game. And yes the game was beaten in 2 hours by people who know where to go and what to do. a normal player can beat ME2 easily in 8 hours even without knowing what to do.

You’re going to have to provide proof that they did that and got the best ending.

3. These changes were made becasue it was the new direction shooter games went. It was not to please the casual crowed like Bioware tries to do. All the mechanics Deus EX had would never work 10 years later. They were jsut outdated, The philosophy behind this game however never really changed.

So Mass Effect was always designed to be a cinematic action rpg that would sell well and allow for deep customization, what exactly has changed in that philosophy from 1 to 3

Yeah I am sorry but I dont care if my grandma can enjoy this game now to iff I cant enjoy it anymore because they are getting more and more dumbed down.

1. You're not trying to make a living designing this game so forgive Bioware if your desire to keep their games within your own sphere of associates dosen' fit with their goals.

2. If you haven't liked a Bioware game in 10 years then I doubt you'll like this one, even though they've added in more extensive weapons customization and character building.

[dreman9999]

Darji wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Why is it a bad thing to draw in more customers, if you don't abandon the old fans for it?

Well, apparently, some people think they're vastly superior and don't want lesser creatures joining their hobby.

Yeah I am sorry but I dont care if my grandma can enjoy this game now to iff I cant enjoy it anymore because they are getting more and more dumbed down.

But it's not. They just added easy modes. If you can still play the game the way you want it, harder as an rpg with diologe choices, who cares if your grandma can play it.

[Nimrodell]

I really don't see how these modes can be a problem, they are optional and everyone get to choose what they like. I'm glad that BW is giving wider specter in gameplay preferences. These forums were raging until last night and this leak about fears how ME3 will be pure shooter, spawn of Gears of War and what not... and now it's a problem to actually have three viable choices on how individual player wants to play. Just unbelievable.

[Il Divo]

Nohvarr wrote...


2. If you haven't liked a Bioware game in 10 years then I doubt you'll like this one, even though they've added in more extensive weapons customization and character building.

If that's the case,  you're pretty much left with Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate, which were both very lackluster, in my opinion.

[ElitePinecone]

tonnactus wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Dialogue is probably managed by scripts (I don't think there is any other way).  I would like to see someone explain to me how possibly adding a few more simple lines of scripting per script conversation is detrimental to development, money and time.

Jesse Houston himself:


One feature that was present in this early build is a set of game play
modes that are in development. In the beta code they are referred to as
“action mode”, “story mode” and “RPG mode”. We want to stress that these
features are still in the early stages of development and will receive
considerable iteration and refinement.


If this is really so simple,it actually would be done. But with thousands lines of dialogue its not this simple.(not even with the choices regarding the Conrad Verner in Mass Effect 2)

Conrad was an import bug issue. That's not even remotely relevant to this discussion. It's a completely different area. 

Of course Houston is stressing that, so if people flip out about it (like some are doing) they can change it and say it was a design decision they decided not to go through with. 

The mechanics of actually doing this would hardly challenge the programming team. 

Story is just another difficutly level and Action requires some work with the level design and dialogue prompts. It's hardly difficult work. 

[dreman9999]

Darji wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Question:  If it works, wouldn't it be worth it?

And if the time was minimal to implement more complicated dialogue scripts to govern auto-convo option, then is it a big loss if they don't bring in a gazillion sales?

Based on the demo, and the fact that the script is larger than ME1 and ME2., it's clear dialogue is not cut at all. 

like the script was large in ME and ME2 to begin with....

The script is large for ME1 and ME2.
To make a script with diffent lines for the same scene and build off that same scene and make different lines for it in new scenes is maddening.
ME script is huge, all bioware scripts are huge. They are bigger then phone books.Their largest script is Swtors, which is a  tower....

[VinWizzy]

I don't see these as a problem. I was skeptical at first but then I just thought why not just play RPG mode and you got your original (not so much) mass effect gameplay and story with hardcore and insanity modes.

Modifié par VinWizzy, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:41 .