1467 réponses à ce sujet

[Darji]

dreman9999 wrote...

Darji wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Darji wrote...
Yes the witcher 2 was streamlined but all these dcsions did not take anything away from the RPG elements and experience.

And what evidance do you have that the same is the case here? I just watched a video clip of a character I had the option of saving in ME 1, showing up during a mission in ME 3.

Skyrim:; I havent played this game yet but Bethesda is in the same category but here its different because they dont focus on a story but more about an open world with huge focus on exploring. MAss Effect never had such a thing and never will have it.

Yet you can skip that big open world if you want, despite it being a major portion of the game. In fact during a speed run it was beaten in two hours.

DEH is first of all no RPG. and secondly its much much deeper and more complex than any Bioware game in teh last 10 years. Yes even Origin included. They really listened to the fans and they never tried to satisfy two or more  different audiences.

Bull, they tried to appease shooter fans with boss fights, and the cover based combat system. It was still a good game but a lot of the changes they made were an attempt to fit in with mainstream gamers. Or shall I go into detail about  the riot that happened on heir forum when they annouced recharging health?

1. Just look at the reccent history and games from Bioware. They tried to streamline RPGs since KOTOR and they failed and failed and failed. They only succeed with origins becasue they bought alot of RPG features back the older and now newer games were missing.  CD RED was listening to their fans and they delivered a fantastic RPG Experience while Bioware was ignoring and even insulting fans about their rants during the DA2 developement and look what they got for this.

2. Elder scrolls game are about the exploration and huge world if you want to skip that you probably should skip the whole game. And yes the game was beaten in 2 hours by people who know where to go and what to do. a normal player can beat ME2 easily in 8 hours even without knowing what to do.

3. These changes were made becasue it was the new direction shooter games went. It was not to please the casual crowed like Bioware tries to do. All the mechanics Deus EX had would never work 10 years later. They were jsut outdated, The philosophy behind this game however never really changed.

1.What?  Bw always list to their fans. Also, origins is a hard core rpg. It turth, the problem is that so many people have different ideas of what should be a rpg. Witcher 2's dev just did everything the hardcore rpg elitist wanted. No way could just anyone play Witcher 2.

3. The changes was put in place to let more people play the game. And it's put ina way that it does not effect current fans in a bit. If we can play the game the way we want to then it's fine that everyone else can play the game they want to.

No they dont listen to their fans. I clearly remmebr all the rant after the demo release and even before and all these people said  was wait till you see the full game bla bla bla. They never listened to anyone. And after the game was released Bioware employess even insulted fans who were complainging about this games's mechnics and weak story etc.

The changes were mostly made becasue the old mechanics didnt work anymore and the team always and clearly said that they will focus on the core audience the people who loved the first game. And they reeally succeeded to bring this game back to live after the terrible second part.


And Yes I have seen alot of the demo but I am not stupid to rate the game according to a 30 minutes demo. I am just ranting becasue I know what direction Bioware went and how dangerous these "options" can be for this game and further Bioware games.  Again better rant and complain now instead of letting it happen.

[Balek-Vriege]

Darji wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Question:  If it works, wouldn't it be worth it?

And if the time was minimal to implement more complicated dialogue scripts to govern auto-convo option, then is it a big loss if they don't bring in a gazillion sales?

Based on the demo, and the fact that the script is larger than ME1 and ME2., it's clear dialogue is not cut at all. 

like the script was large in ME and ME2 to begin with....

Just to clarify just incase people are taking "Script" to mean movie script.

They're basically simplistic (I say that lightly) prefabricated command lines with conditions and actions which govern most things ingame based off the engine.  They control dialogue, quest markers, whether pushing a button causes ingame causes lights to come one or a door to open, cinematics etc.

Usually when you encounter a bug in a game, a script wasn't written correctly.  My argument is that scripting dialogue is usually the easiest thing to do in games which allow you to make your own mods (Fallout 3/NV, NWN series etc.)  If it's the easiest thing for noob modders like myself in those games, then how hard can it be to implement an auto-choice option via scripting for pro scripters/programmers?

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:44 .

[ADLegend21]

They're widening their audience, that's how you run a business. make oyur product appeal to as many people as possible so you can make the most money so you can continue to make your awesome stuff and still make money.

[Nohvarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


2. If you haven't liked a Bioware game in 10 years then I doubt you'll like this one, even though they've added in more extensive weapons customization and character building.

If that's the case,  you're pretty much left with Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate, which were both very lackluster, in my opinion.

I would agree, especially when it comes to Neverwinter Nights. However those games, like Witcher 2, fulfilled the 'classical RPG' fans needs and are thus held up as paragons of the genre. Personally I'm looking forward to games that leave some of those old conventions behind. Tha's why I'm actually looking forward to games like 'Dishonored' and am keeping an eye on Kingdoms of Amular.

[Cimeas]

IM worried about the fact that 'action' is the default, meaning new players may automatically select that choice and then not enjoy the true ME3 experience.

RPG mode should be first, followed by action/story.

[Balek-Vriege]

johnxtreeme wrote...

IM worried about the fact that 'action' is the default, meaning new players may automatically select that choice and then not enjoy the true ME3 experience.

RPG mode should be first, followed by action/story.

I can agree with that.

[Anacronian Stryx]

johnxtreeme wrote...

IM worried about the fact that 'action' is the default, meaning new players may automatically select that choice and then not enjoy the true ME3 experience.

RPG mode should be first, followed by action/story.

Chances are that they were just placed in alphabetical order for this beta build.

[Nohvarr]

No they dont listen to their fans. I clearly remmebr all the rant after the demo release and even before and all these people said was wait till you see the full game bla bla bla. They never listened to anyone. And after the game was released Bioware employess even insulted fans who were complainging about this games's mechnics and weak story etc.

Well that sounds like an issue you should take up with the DA team, because the ME team has listened to fans. That’s why they tested the new vehicle out in the manner they did, exploring what did and didn’t work. That’s why ‘Lair of the Shadowbroker’ managed to be one of the best DLC’s I’ve ever played.

The changes were mostly made becasue the old mechanics didnt work anymore and the team always and clearly said that they will focus on the core audience the people who loved the first game. And they reeally succeeded to bring this game back to live after the terrible second part.

Ummmm wit ME 2, they knew what didn't work because the fans told them. Sure they made some changes on their own but a lot of what was designed was done so because people complained.

I am just ranting becasue I know what direction Bioware went and how dangerous these "options" can be for this game and further Bioware games. Again better rant and complain now instead of letting it happen.

So you’re here not because you care about the game, but to get back at Bioware for what happened with DA 2? Good to know, that puts all your comments in perspective.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:50 .

[dreman9999]

Il Divo wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


2. If you haven't liked a Bioware game in 10 years then I doubt you'll like this one, even though they've added in more extensive weapons customization and character building.

If that's the case,  you're pretty much left with Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate, which were both very lackluster, in my opinion.

I  find Nohvarr comment funny because I played Baldur's gate2  after Mass Effect 2 and found it be equal ME2.....Also,better than most gamesmade by BW outside of ME2 ofcourse.

[tonnactus]

AdmiralCheez wrote...


Seriously, to have a deep, smart series like ME3 gain mainstream popularity...  That'd be awesome.

Of course.Convincing players by things that set rpgs apart from other genres and not by desperated attemps to make newbies forget they actually played one by things like "Action Mode".

[AdmiralCheez]

tonnactus wrote...

Of course.Convincing players by things that set rpgs apart from other genres and not by desperated attemps to make newbies forget they actually played one by things like "Action Mode".

Think of it as a gateway drug.

[Blooddrunk1004]

I just hope they won't made a list of how many people played Action, Story or RPG mode.
Makes me wonder how will they treat their new games when they will see Action mode having more then 80% of crowd.

[Nohvarr]

dreman9999 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


2. If you haven't liked a Bioware game in 10 years then I doubt you'll like this one, even though they've added in more extensive weapons customization and character building.

If that's the case,  you're pretty much left with Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate, which were both very lackluster, in my opinion.

I  find Nohvarr comment funny because I played Baldur's gate2  after Mass Effect 2 and found it be equal ME2.....Also,better than most gamesmade by BW outside of ME2 ofcourse.

To be fair, I no longer think the poster in question actually cares about ME 3, they're still upset about DA 2 and are making sure Bioware knows it. As for the last ten years, I would argue that Bioware has been moving in an action RPG direction since Jade Empire and that most of their games reflect this path.

[Wulfram]

The idea of people choosing Action mode makes me despair for humanity.

In fairness, a lot of things do that.

Modifié par Wulfram, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:53 .

[Shepard the Leper]

Darji wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Why is it a bad thing to draw in more customers, if you don't abandon the old fans for it?

Well, apparently, some people think they're vastly superior and don't want lesser creatures joining their hobby.

Yeah I am sorry but I dont care if my grandma can enjoy this game now to iff I cant enjoy it anymore because they are getting more and more dumbed down.

Correct me if I've missed something, but as far as I can tell you're only interested in ME's story. Anyone can watch a cutscene and/or listen to a dialogue - it requires no skill whatsoever (and has nothing to do with gaming). What gaming system is "more dumbed down" than that? Packman is mentally more demanding than clicking "Sure, I'll help!" or "Get lost fool!"

[dreman9999]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Darji wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The purpose is to allow people to play the way they want to play.

If you believe that and never read any interviews...

There aim is "to go blockbuster" with sales reaches 10 million like cod and gears do. Thats the only reason to include such nonens like the "Action Mode".

Question:  If it works, wouldn't it be worth it?

And if the time was minimal to implement more complicated dialogue scripts to govern auto-convo option, then is it a big loss if they don't bring in a gazillion sales?

Based on the demo, and the fact that the script is larger than ME1 and ME2., it's clear dialogue is not cut at all. 

like the script was large in ME and ME2 to begin with....

Just to clarify just incase people are taking "Script" to mean movie script.

They're basically simplistic (I say that lightly) prefabricated command lines with conditions and actions which govern most things ingame based off the engine.  They control dialogue, quest markers, whether pushing a button causes ingame causes lights to come one or a door to open, cinematics etc.

Usually when you encounter a bug in a game, a script wasn't written correctly.  My argument is that scripting dialogue is usually the easiest thing to do in games which allow you to make your own mods (Fallout 3/NV, NWN series etc.)  If it's the easiest thing for noob modders like myself in those games, then how hard can it be to implement an auto-choice option via scripting for pro scripters/programmers?

Your confusing Diologe with script. I wasreferring tothe action and statements ofthe character scene to scene. Their isa script for that you know. With games and animated movies, the consepts of a scriptis split to actor and animator. The Actor doesthe vocal emotion and the animator does the phyical acting ang body language. Scripts like that are big. Of cours that's due to having story borads used with it as well.

[tonnactus]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Of course Houston is stressing that, so if people flip out about it (like some are doing) t

About what if its a simple script?? What should go wrong if this is the case?

[Abraham_uk]

Okay, I can't really argue with something I don't really understand. The three modes seem okay on paper. As long as I get the option to make all the choices and have at the very least moderately challenging combat. But then again, I don't really know enough to throw a hissy fit (which is what you expect of us right?)

[xentar]

Darji wrote...

2. Elder scrolls game are about the exploration and huge world if you want to skip that you probably should skip the whole game. And yes the game was beaten in 2 hours by people who know where to go and what to do. a normal player can beat ME2 easily in 8 hours even without knowing what to do. 

3. These changes were made becasue it was the new direction shooter games went. It was not to please the casual crowed like Bioware tries to do. All the mechanics Deus EX had would never work 10 years later. They were jsut outdated, The philosophy behind this game however never really changed.

2. 8 hours is a bit of a stretch. I tooke me almost 6 times as much, although I am indeed a slow player.

3. I'd disagree with that. Why wouldn't old mechanics work now? I see no reason not to.

[Balek-Vriege]

tonnactus wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...


Seriously, to have a deep, smart series like ME3 gain mainstream popularity...  That'd be awesome.

Of course.Convincing players by things that set rpgs apart from other genres and not by desperated attemps to make newbies forget they actually played one by things like "Action Mode".

Yeah, except that tends not to happen.  Not going to magically make hardcore shooter fans like RPGs all together, but that's not who they're aiming for.  What you can do is make the best RPG and combat elements you can then allow options to customize your playstyle with something like...  Action/Story/RPG modes.  This brings in the casual gamer who may not like a certain part of the game elements.

Lets be realistic here too.  If Action Mode basically means auto-choice dialogue, then it essentially plays like a JRPG.  Are JRPGs not RPGs?  Remember, we still have RPG Mode and Story Mode which plays exactly like ME1/ME2.  Even if Action Mode disabled leveling etc., you would still have the option to play another mode or change the game preferences in the Options menu.

[dreman9999]

Nohvarr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


2. If you haven't liked a Bioware game in 10 years then I doubt you'll like this one, even though they've added in more extensive weapons customization and character building.

If that's the case,  you're pretty much left with Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate, which were both very lackluster, in my opinion.

I  find Nohvarr comment funny because I played Baldur's gate2  after Mass Effect 2 and found it be equal ME2.....Also,better than most gamesmade by BW outside of ME2 ofcourse.

To be fair, I no longer think the poster in question actually cares about ME 3, they're still upset about DA 2 and are making sure Bioware knows it. As for the last ten years, I would argue that Bioware has been moving in an action RPG direction since Jade Empire and that most of their games reflect this path.

That's true that they are moving more to action games but itjust simple evolution. In true, everyone hating on action rpgs forget the fact the only reason way older game had no action elements in them is because of the limitations of the systems. Pen and paper D&D used dice rolls for combat and actions because that was the only way they could interact with the games world. With video games where you can build and make anything, why keep a limit that was needed because interaction was limited?
Another thing is the fact that having the element they want is best to be in the game if it makes sense. Why does someone need an inventory if they have a ship over head that carrieseverything for them and saysin contact with you the entire time? Also, they themselves don't understand that the benifits of having an inventory do not apply to ME. In BG, you had eneimes who could only die with curtin weapons, and/or attacks. Trollshadto beburn, gholems could only betaken down with blunt weapons, Demonneedmagical weaopon,and different weapons have added on effects. ME has non of that.
So should people hate on ME for not havingan exal sheet shiped with the game. 

[Deviija]

It sounds potentially interesting in theory, and written down, but I do not see the need for this in actuality. What happened to simply going into options and choosing whether you wanted Casual, Normal, Hard, Nightmare/Hardcore mode? The only thing this devised setting system offers is some automated responses to the Action mode... which is beyond me in why anyone would want to let a choice-driven game -- and RPG at that -- play (most of?) itself...

And personally, I cannot see the ME series as such a great shooter/shooter-action game that it draws many people in solely for the combat and shooter mechanics systems.

[Darji]

xentar wrote...

Darji wrote...

2. Elder scrolls game are about the exploration and huge world if you want to skip that you probably should skip the whole game. And yes the game was beaten in 2 hours by people who know where to go and what to do. a normal player can beat ME2 easily in 8 hours even without knowing what to do. 

3. These changes were made becasue it was the new direction shooter games went. It was not to please the casual crowed like Bioware tries to do. All the mechanics Deus EX had would never work 10 years later. They were jsut outdated, The philosophy behind this game however never really changed.

2. 8 hours is a bit of a stretch. I tooke me almost 6 times as much, although I am indeed a slow player.

3. I'd disagree with that. Why wouldn't old mechanics work now? I see no reason not to.

The Main story in ME2 takes roughly 8-10 on a first playthrough. If you do all the other stuff which are not required to beat the game (including Character missions) then its more like 20-30 hours yes.

As for Deus Ex: Just play it again. Back tehn these controls were good or een great but today they are just outdated and terrible to use. the response for example is very bad in this game for today standards.  Its the same with the thief series. Back then the controls were great but today they are just a pain.

And I am here becasue I love RPGs and I want to play more thn 1 good RPG each year or even every 2 years.. This genre was already enough dumbed down and not only from Bioware. And now it really should be enough with this.

[dreman9999]

Darji wrote...

xentar wrote...

Darji wrote...

2. Elder scrolls game are about the exploration and huge world if you want to skip that you probably should skip the whole game. And yes the game was beaten in 2 hours by people who know where to go and what to do. a normal player can beat ME2 easily in 8 hours even without knowing what to do. 

3. These changes were made becasue it was the new direction shooter games went. It was not to please the casual crowed like Bioware tries to do. All the mechanics Deus EX had would never work 10 years later. They were jsut outdated, The philosophy behind this game however never really changed.

2. 8 hours is a bit of a stretch. I tooke me almost 6 times as much, although I am indeed a slow player.

3. I'd disagree with that. Why wouldn't old mechanics work now? I see no reason not to.

The Main story in ME2 takes roughly 8-10 on a first playthrough. If you do all the other stuff which are not required to beat the game (including Character missions) then its more like 20-30 hours yes.

As for Deus Ex: Just play it again. Back tehn these controls were good or een great but today they are just outdated and terrible to use. the response for example is very bad in this game for today standards.  Its the same with the thief series. Back then the controls were great but today they are just a pain.

And I am here becasue I love RPGs and I want to play more thn 1 good RPG each year or even every 2 years.. This genre was already enough dumbed down and not only from Bioware. And now it really should be enough with this.

No, It take that long if your rush it.Any game is short if you rush it. My question is why anyone would want to rush through a rpg?