1467 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

Vegos wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Again how does a toggle to auto choose options completely remove the story and RPG elements? 

Basically, if the game makes the decisions for me, then it doesn't really feel like I'm "role playing".

To me, "role playing" implies some action and decisions on my part, not just following a straight path.

And don't come back with "don't use it then", cause I was answering the question that assumes the option is being used.

Then toggle the auto choose off ?

[Aaleel]

As long as Insanity on RPG mode is the same level or challenge/difficulty as Insanity on Action Mode I don't care. But if the difficulty curve is tied to the mode it's BS.

[AtreiyaN7]

Merci357 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Then don't use the toggle.  It doesn't have to effect you at all.  I'm going to put it on RPG mode when I get it and that's the last time I'll have to think about it.

You know, I'm getting tired of this "Why complain if it doesn't affect you" argument.

Then explain it to me, plain and simple. What is so bad about the existence of an option, that you are free to ignore?

Yeah, like Merci, I too want an explanation about how the fact that people will now be able to choose their own gameplay mode somehow affects your personal gameplay experience. As far as I can tell, it doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form if they are playing in action mode, story mode, or RPG mode. Aren't people on the BSN always complaining about not having enough toggles/options? *snort*

I mean, my God, what a complete stranger does in his/her own home totally affects my single-player experience. I just can't sleep at night wondering if my guildie is playing Arkham City on the lowest difficulty setting or if he's playing it the "right" way! Why, I should go straight over to his place and insist that he play it in a manner that I deem acceptable!!!!! *sarcasm*

You know, there should be optional modes and/ toggles for the BSN too! I'm in favor of one called "complaining over optional content that doesn't affect you is moronic" mode. Said mode will instantly block posts where people who think that other people playing in a different mode somehow ruins their lives/gameplay experience in some manner. *more sarcasm*

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[Vegos]

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Again how does a toggle to auto choose options completely remove the story and RPG elements? 

Basically, if the game makes the decisions for me, then it doesn't really feel like I'm "role playing".

To me, "role playing" implies some action and decisions on my part, not just following a straight path.

That doesn't answer the question properly. You have a CHOICE to pick Action mode or story and RPG mode. If for some reason you pick Action mode and are pissed about having little to no choice in story then that is your fault. If you pick RPG or Story mode then you should get to make the decisions and roleplay. 

WRONG.

The question specifically assumes that the action mode is being used, and based on that assumption, asking what it takes out of the RPG element.

I answered the question properly, because the choice to use or not use it was not even in it. It was asked how PICKING SAID CHOICE affects the game! And I answered that.

Modifié par Vegos, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:21 .

[lady_v23]

I think I'll be playing Story mode for a while. Always fun to get a break from Insanity and play on the easiest mode.

[Vegos]

Yeah, like Merci, I too want an explanation about how the fact that people will now be able to choose their own gameplay mode somehow affects your personal gameplay experience. As far as I can tell, it doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form if they are playing in action mode, story mode, or RPG mode. Aren't people on the BSN always complaining about not having enough toggles/options? *snort*

Objection, relevance?

Where have I talked about my personal gameplay experience? I'm talking about the concept of said toggles and my opinion on them. Leave my gameplay to me, it's none of your business. I can still have an opinion on something I'm not using, can't I?

Also, your question is entirely different from the one you quoted.

Modifié par Vegos, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:21 .

[1136342t54_]

Vegos wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Again how does a toggle to auto choose options completely remove the story and RPG elements? 

Basically, if the game makes the decisions for me, then it doesn't really feel like I'm "role playing".

To me, "role playing" implies some action and decisions on my part, not just following a straight path.

That doesn't answer the question properly. You have a CHOICE to pick Action mode or story and RPG mode. If for some reason you pick Action mode and are pissed about having little to no choice in story then that is your fault. If you pick RPG or Story mode then you should get to make the decisions and roleplay. 

WRONG.

The question specifically assumes that the action mode is being used, and based on that assumption, asking what it takes out of the RPG element.

I answered the question properly, because the choice to use or not use it was not even in it. It was asked how PICKING SAID CHOICE affects the game! And I answered that.

Balek asks how a OPTION to toggle limits your roleplay abililty. The option to pick any mode doesn't assume that your picking Action mode. You haven't answered the question properly but even if the question was focused on Action mode then what's the problem?

Are you pissed that Action Mode won't give you any story based choices?

If so then pick RPG mode or Story Mode.

[upsettingshorts]

So the opposition to the toggle is... meta?

[Vegos]

Sajuro wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Again how does a toggle to auto choose options completely remove the story and RPG elements? 

Basically, if the game makes the decisions for me, then it doesn't really feel like I'm "role playing".

To me, "role playing" implies some action and decisions on my part, not just following a straight path.

And don't come back with "don't use it then", cause I was answering the question that assumes the option is being used.

Then toggle the auto choose off ?

Only that the question assumed it's being used, so I can't do that in order to asnwer it.

[1136342t54_]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So the opposition to the toggle is... meta?

That is what I'm assuming. I guess people don't have the will power to not play Action mode so they will complain because Action mode doesn't have any choices.

[Vegos]

Are you pissed that Action Mode won't give you any story based choices?

If so then pick RPG mode or Story Mode.

Nope. And if you bothered to read my posts, you'd know that.

So kindly shove your "advice", I didn't ask for it. Oh, and kindly shove your assumptions about me, too. I take offense when people assume things about me.

Modifié par Vegos, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:30 .

[1136342t54_]

Vegos wrote...

Are you pissed that Action Mode won't give you any story based choices?

If so then pick RPG mode or Story Mode.

Nope. And if you bothered to read my posts, you'd know that.

So kindly shove your "advice", I didn't ask for it.

I've read your posts and all I'm getting is that your annoyed the choice in it. 

Kindly explain to me your post and tell me what is the problem? If you seem to not deem anyone necessary to explain your complaints then there is no point in you even being here. I've been trying to be polite. 

[Aaleel]

I don't really see the need for a Story and RPG mode though. The only difference is the difficulty, which the player can set themselves. Honestly they could just have a reply/auto reply setting in options and skip the entire mode thing all together.

But like I said, I don't care as long as the difficulty curve is not tied to the mode. Insanity on Action should be no more difficult than Insanity on RPG.

[Vegos]

I've read your posts and all I'm getting is that your annoyed the choice in it. 

Kindly explain to me your post and tell me what is the problem? If you seem to not deem anyone necessary to explain your complaints then there is no point in you even being here. I've been trying to be polite. 

Where have I actually said there was a "problem"?

I'm simply in disagreement with the concept because of my personal reasons. I only get cranky when people try to tell me I'm not entitled to think so or that I am wrong if I think so.

Modifié par Vegos, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:32 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Vegos wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Again how does a toggle to auto choose options completely remove the story and RPG elements? 

Basically, if the game makes the decisions for me, then it doesn't really feel like I'm "role playing".

To me, "role playing" implies some action and decisions on my part, not just following a straight path.

That doesn't answer the question properly. You have a CHOICE to pick Action mode or story and RPG mode. If for some reason you pick Action mode and are pissed about having little to no choice in story then that is your fault. If you pick RPG or Story mode then you should get to make the decisions and roleplay. 

WRONG.

The questions apecifically assumes that the action mode is being used, and based on that assumption, asking what it takes out of the RPG element.

I answered the question properly, because the choice to use or not use it was not even in it. It was asked how PICKING SAID CHOICE affects the game! And I answered that.

Yes that was the intent, but it can be taken both ways because I wasn't overly specific.  Sorry for the confusion guys hehe.  What I really wanted to know was how having it activated completely cuts the story/RPG elements regardless of the choice to play Story or RPG mode.  My point is that RPG elements aren't just about choices in convos and leveling (although i'm perfectly ok with how you define an RPG to yourself as story/convos).

Auto-Leveling and Auto-Choice still doesn't turn off the story, make the decision of which planet you visit, which sidequests you do, the order you do them in, possible decisions in choosing one race over another via mission selection, resource and asset aquisition etc etc etc.  That will all be in Action Mode and counts as "RPG elements."  So saying it takes away the story is not true.  More accurate to say the player is giving up choice in dialogue. 

We don't even know if it automates all decisions.  For example actions like keep the Collector Base or Destroy it may still be manual.  If not, you can turn auto dialogue off and back on again after making a decision.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[upsettingshorts]

Vegos wrote...

when people try to tell me I'm not entitled to think so

That would be unreasonable.

Vegos wrote...

or that I am wrong if I think so.

That is not unreasonable considering you are posting your opinion on a public forum. 

If you do not want the merits of your opinion challenged, you are free to keep them to yourself.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[1136342t54_]

Vegos wrote...


Where have I actually said there was a "problem"?

I'm simply in disagreement with the concept because of my personal reasons. I only get cranky when people try to tell me I'm not entitled to think so or that I am wrong if I think so.

If you disagree with the concept then you have a problem with it. What is your disagreement?

[AtreiyaN7]

Vegos wrote...

Yeah, like Merci, I too want an explanation about how the fact that people will now be able to choose their own gameplay mode somehow affects your personal gameplay experience. As far as I can tell, it doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form if they are playing in action mode, story mode, or RPG mode. Aren't people on the BSN always complaining about not having enough toggles/options? *snort*

Objection, relevance?

Where have I talked about my personal gameplay experience? I'm talking about the concept of said toggles and my opinion on them. Leave my gameplay to me, it's none of your business. I can still have an opinion on something I'm not using, can't I?

Also, your question is entirely different from the one you quoted.

You were quoted as saying: You know, I'm getting tired of this "Why complain if it doesn't affect you" argument.

• You can have an opinion of course, but yours seems to pretty consistently be against anything optional that, you know, doesn't affect you, and to dismiss outright the people who do, correctly, point out that all these options do not impact you or your gameplay experience - especially since all they do is to add options for people.
• My question (in relation to the BSN whining at least) was rhetorical, and my post is clearly sarcastic in tenor.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[Vegos]

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...


Where have I actually said there was a "problem"?

I'm simply in disagreement with the concept because of my personal reasons. I only get cranky when people try to tell me I'm not entitled to think so or that I am wrong if I think so.

If you disagree with the concept then you have a problem with it. What is your disagreement?

Who knows? Could be as simple as "That's not how I would do things". Could be "That's not what should be happening in the Mass Effect franchise." Could be "Why those three modes, but no silly mode where everyone is wearing a silly hat, I'd be totally sold on that!"

I'm ceirtainly not going to write up an essay on it, because my personal experience says nobody would read it anyway.

[OMTING52601]

 It seems like the real crux of the argument about the modes boils down to how it affects the RPG elements, not whether or not a player should be able to choose them. 
It isn't that anyone knows, with certainty, that the separate modes cost tons of time or money to create (though in truth, regardless of 'ease' no one knows how many funds(cash or time) were used/diverted to implement them) but the IMPLICATION that Action Mode, with it's pre-set dialog, STRONGLY SUGGESTS a pre-determined story line. A pre-determined, finite, story line is NOT what RPGers want in a game. Players need the illusion of choice, otherwise a game fails(DA 2 is a prime example).

It doesn't matter if Action mode players can switch back to RPG mode because...

If there is, indeed, a pre-set storyline(be it para or rene or one of each) for that mode, it would make sense that those strictly either/or plot lines would be the best developed in the system. It's people worrying that, regardless of an RPG mode, the addition of a pre-determined story will make the RPG elements less deep, less interactive. 

Yeah, there's a lot of 'if you don't want, don't' back and forth, but I've spent the better part of an hour reading this entire thread and ignoring the jabs and snide insults, I can understand the reservation of certain players.

Do I mind the options? No. Can I appreciate that the options may take something away from the game? Yes. 

ETA: The post earlier, about double digit decrease in sales for entertainment, is significant. It's showing that in the slow world economy people are much tighter fisted. People aren't going to shell out fifty plus whatever-their-money-is for a game(or anything) they don't know, for sure, they are going to like. So trying for mass appeal, at a time like this, is arguably a poor business decision. Why? Because as another poster pointed out, trying to get everyone to like something by and large ends up failing to satisfy anyone. It's why genre's exist in the first place. And considering how upset buyers were/are over the announcement of MP(along with the contradictory 'absolutely MP affects SP, but no it doesn't' CYA PR that's everywhere) Bioware should be nervous about more potential lost customers with this announcement. 

Modifié par OMTING52601, 05 novembre 2011 - 09:49 .

[1136342t54_]

Vegos wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...


Where have I actually said there was a "problem"?

I'm simply in disagreement with the concept because of my personal reasons. I only get cranky when people try to tell me I'm not entitled to think so or that I am wrong if I think so.

If you disagree with the concept then you have a problem with it. What is your disagreement?

Who knows? Could be as simple as "That's not how I would do things". Could be "That's not what should be happening in the Mass Effect franchise." Could be "Why those three modes, but no silly mode where everyone is wearing a silly hat, I'd be totally sold on that!"

I'm ceirtainly not going to write up an essay on it, because my personal experience says nobody would read it anyway.

So basically you disagree with it but you don't know why? Then what is the point of even coming on here and making a complaint? I'm all for complaints as long as they are meaningful and explain things in a way the devs could either assure you on it or find the problem in fix it but this just seems pointless.

[Aaleel]

All they have to do is put a response manual/auto option right on the screen with difficulty setting, squad power usage, auto level up, etc.

That's all these settings are doing, you pick story and change difficulty to normal you're playing RPG, and vice versa. Unless the difficulty curve is somehow tied to the mode, which I would be completely against.

[Cimeas]

jeweledleah wrote...

johnxtreeme wrote...

This is like having a toggle in CoD that just auto aims and fires in singleplayer so you can watch badly done cutscenes about a Russian guy's plot for world domination. That wouldn't make it a shooter, so I don't see why people somehow shouldn't complain when playing action mode doesn't make ME3 an RPG.

It doesn't matter if Action mode is a toggle, because it's a toggle that removes a core element of gameplay. Like removing 'story' from Uncharted or 'combat' from Dragon Age or 'stealth' from Deus Ex, simply having it as an option means that some gamers won't play the game Bioware has built.

For decades, even if you play on 'easy mode' you have been able to experience the core gameplay elements of the games you buy, and ME3 is changing that, turning the game from what will hopefully be a pinnacle in digital storytelling to a mediocre shooter.

Mass Effect as a franchise, deserves better.

oh for the love of.  was ME any less of an rpg due to having an option to auto level? did people developing console commands for skipping combat parts make it any less of an rpg?
was Lords of the realm and Heroes of might and magic any less of a strategy game for having an option for auto combat?

existance of an option tdoes NOT devalue your ability to play a full game.  just becasue ME2 for example had very sparse defautl decisions for ME1 didn't negate the fact that those who played ME1 got to pick out their own choices, on the contrary.

I played original Deus Ex on god mode.  i wanted to play through the story, but I disliked the bombat very much.  how did my playing on god mode detract from your experience of playing the full game without it?  does existance of renegade choices and romances you are not interested in, detracted from thechoices YOU make?

its a choice.  by definition, you don't have to take it.

as  franchise that's allabout choice, I think this is a fantastic idea on a part of Bioware.it may not be the choice you like or will ever take, but its mere existance doesn't devaluate your chosen playstyle.  not at all.

its a game.  let people play it the way they like best.  what does it matter, as long as YOU can play it the way you like best as well?

They built the game with the fact that 'action' is th default option in mind.  Thus they MAY have cared less about branching the story out and more about the combat/one specific story pathway.