1467 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex_SM]

1136342t54 wrote...

In my gaming experience (started in 1997), I've never seen any good game relseased after a "we want to appeal wider audience" campaign. That kind of marketing tactics usually led to mediocre (at best) games. 

Most games want a wider audience due to basic business practices. Every gaming company want a wider audience for more money period. You cannot deny that.

Is not usual to change game mechanics inside a franchise to follow trends started by other franchises (unless your company is absorbed by a bigger one who start telling you what to do), and is not usual (unless you work under EA or Activision) to explicitly announce you are working to appeal wider audiences.

Every time it is explicitly done, the results are mediocre at best.

For example, ID did it once (Rage), and it's the worst game they've released. Gearbox did it with Duke Nukem forever and the result is one of the worst games in the last years.  

[Darji]

111987 wrote...

Darji wrote...
All the story has was dead guy came back to save the world while collecting some new companions. That was all the story had to offer. There was no rich story and the ending was  also a huge cluster****.

Okay. You clearly aren't willing to be rational. We both know ME2 was much more than that.

Anyone could do what you just did. "ME1 was just this guy who found some random people and they saved a space station from a robot squid and its robot friends." See what I mean?

The thing is all the rest they told you during the game didnt matter a bit in this game. Take the Witcher 2 for example. Look how they slowy introduced events  and characters and what will happen later and really mattered in the overall story.

Yes it  can matter in the third game but giving all the stuff you heard and descided in ME1 and how it did not matter at all in ME2 I dont think this will happen at all. Espeically if they are tareting an even wider audience who never played a ME before.

@Alex Oh yeah Rage is another great example whatis going on here.

Modifié par Darji, 06 novembre 2011 - 04:26 .

[SkittlesKat96]

When I saw the picture with the Action Rpg option I initially laughed really hard but to be honest now that I think about it I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

This seems like a good idea to me.

[ElitePinecone]

NYG1991 wrote...

I think the option is a little redundant as you can change everything a moment later in the option screen but it's a good idea to give people the option to just watch cutscenes in between combat 

I don't think it's meant to be a big deal. It's just an option for people to start new games. 

When you can change everything around a second later, I have no idea why people are taking this so seriously. 

Sure, everyone in the forums will probably use RPG mode, but I'm sure there are lots of people who'd love to play Mass Effect with easy combat or linear conversations and cutscenes. 

[Vegos]

1136342t54 wrote...

That won't work. You are specifically the type of poster who will never be satisified by any answer even if it is what you want to here. Bioware will always seem like liers to you until they actually come out with a game that is so good it is equal to the second coming.

Satisfaction be damned, right now the word the poster you're quoting is looking for for is "closure" if I got that right.

And I'm finding myself dangerously close to joining that camp, too.

[1136342t54_]

Darji wrote...
\\No they raged becasue it was a total different game. It had no depth at all

Explain?

, the combat was nothing like Origins.

Actually it was quite similar but faster, no kiting and you really couldn't auto follow your target.

the story was a boring mess of three parts they somehow put together through the lazy "flashback feature" The whole world didnt even make sense.

What is there that didn't make sense? Is it simply confusing to realize that you are refugee trying to make a living for the first Act?

For example no one cared about you beeing a mage even if you fought right in front of them, or look like a normal mage.

Oh yeah your so right it isn't like we never had that happen in DAO. /sarcasm

And that was only one huge flaw in the world DA2 had.  Honestly even a 13 year old with a bit writing talent could have written a better story with better characters than the whole DA2 did. 

I've graded some 13 year old english papers. Don't ever say that.

[1136342t54_]

Vegos wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

That won't work. You are specifically the type of poster who will never be satisified by any answer even if it is what you want to here. Bioware will always seem like liers to you until they actually come out with a game that is so good it is equal to the second coming.

Satisfaction be damned, right now the word the poster you're quoting is looking for for is "closure" if I got that right.

And I'm finding myself dangerously close to joining that camp, too.

I understand that but they will NEVER have closure. If you don't trust a company then why the hell would you even trust anything they say now?

[111987]

Darji wrote...

111987 wrote...

Darji wrote...
All the story has was dead guy came back to save the world while collecting some new companions. That was all the story had to offer. There was no rich story and the ending was  also a huge cluster****.

Okay. You clearly aren't willing to be rational. We both know ME2 was much more than that.

Anyone could do what you just did. "ME1 was just this guy who found some random people and they saved a space station from a robot squid and its robot friends." See what I mean?

The thing is all the rest they told you during the game didnt matter a bit in this game. Take the Witcher 2 for example. Look how they slowy introduced events  and characters and what will happen later and really mattered in the overall story.

Yes it  can matter in the third game but giving all the stuff you heard and descided in ME1 and how it did not matter at all in ME2 I dont think this will happen at all. Espeically if they are tareting an even wider audience who never played a ME before.

The Witcher 2 is a standalone game. Thus it is much easier to make decisions matter. If decisions mattered as much in ME2 and they did in TW2, the game would became WAY too big, and ME3 would become even bigger. It just isn't realistic. Could they have made choices matter a little more? I think so. But i never thought they would be huge in ME2.

ME3 is different because it is the final game. I expect that decisions have a significant impact on my playthroughs.

[Vegos]

1136342t54 wrote...

For example no one cared about you beeing a mage even if you fought right in front of them, or look like a normal mage.

Oh yeah your so right it isn't like we never had that happen in DAO. /sarcasm

In DAO you were a Grey Warden, and a Circle mage to begin with, in DA2, you're basically an apostate in a city that not only hates apostates but would like to dismember them with extreme prejudice.

[Alex_SM]

1136342t54 wrote...

I've checked Metacritic again and yes their are plenty of 70s but many of them (especially 75) think its a good game but in comparison to the last it failed to meet expectations. That is the main problem with DA2 with everyone. 

Press ratings doesn't mean anything. A big release from a big studio never gets bad ratings or bad reviews (unless is something extremely awful who deserves nothing but a 0/10).

[Ivalane]

For a player like myself, who likes replaying the games, action mode would be great once i've gotten all i want out of the story, just so i can buzz through and get a real feel for other classes. It sounds like its going to be a huge game, and I for one want to get as much as i can out of it. Bioware if you do keep these modes, good on you. More options is never a bad thing!

[1136342t54_]

Alex_SM wrote...

Is not usual to change game mechanics inside a franchise to follow trends started by other franchises (unless your company is absorbed by a bigger one who start telling you what to do), and is not usual (unless you work under EA or Activision) to explicitly announce you are working to appeal wider audiences.

Actually sometimes it is. Resident evil has done that with Resident Evil 4 and it is still by far the best Resident Evil to date and that year it was one of the best games out. Some game companies actually say explicityly that they like to broaden their player base sometimes but even when they don't say it is still in their plan to do that simply as a company that wants to make money.

For example, ID did it once (Rage), and it's the worst game they've released. Gearbox did it with Duke Nukem forever and the result is one of the worst games in the last years.  

Haven't watched the reviews for Rage (but the Xplay one which said it was a good game) so I'm not really going to comment. Sure Duke Nukem was bad from what I hear. 

[Vegos]

1136342t54 wrote...


I understand that but they will NEVER have closure. If you don't trust a company then why the hell would you even trust anything they say now?

It's easier to trust someone when their words are consistent with their action and vice versa.

Me, I kind of decided to pass the final judgement on ME3 once I get through it, but I'm not getting my hopes up, that's for sure...so either I'll be pleasantly surprised, or I'll be saying "I knew it", I suppose.

PS: I don't think the stats metagame is essential for a RPG to be RPG, by the way.

Modifié par Vegos, 06 novembre 2011 - 04:32 .

[Darji]

1136342t54 wrote...

Darji wrote...
No they raged becasue it was a total different game. It had no depth at all

Explain?

, the combat was nothing like Origins.

Actually it was quite similar but faster, no kiting and you really couldn't auto follow your target.

the story was a boring mess of three parts they somehow put together through the lazy "flashback feature" The whole world didnt even make sense.

What is there that didn't make sense? Is it simply confusing to realize that you are refugee trying to make a living for the first Act?

For example no one cared about you beeing a mage even if you fought right in front of them, or look like a normal mage.

Oh yeah your so right it isn't like we never had that happen in DAO. /sarcasm

And that was only one huge flaw in the world DA2 had.  Honestly even a 13 year old with a bit writing talent could have written a better story with better characters than the whole DA2 did. 

I've graded some 13 year old english papers. Don't ever say that.

Ok here.e.

No depth:
there was nothing stats based. dumbed down inventory, dumbed down skill tree, no tactical combat at all. And no the combat was not the same at all. again you dont need any strategy, you cant set up surprise attacks, all that made DA2 difficult were its spawns which were cheap and unfair and made every first encounter a lucky guess game.

And Inorigins it actually mattered in the world of Ofirins if you were a mage or not. It mattered if you were anhuman dwarf or elf. It mattered and people actually reacted differently depending on your character or class.

DA2 didnt make sense in terms of beeing stupid with no overall story at all beside the flashback thing. It were basicly 3 different stories somehow tied together to "one" whole story whioch was not even lazy but also bad implemented.

And you want evidence? Mabye it helps that a bioware guy who was also responsible for the story told in an interview that people dont want to read or long dialogues with deep stories.

[1136342t54_]

Vegos wrote...

In DAO you were a Grey Warden, and a Circle mage to begin with, in DA2, you're basically an apostate in a city that not only hates apostates but would like to dismember them with extreme prejudice.

Tell me how many times have you used magic in front of Templars when they aren't about to get torn apart by a enemy which makes it difficult for them to actuall see your magic? Also some Templars in DA2 (especially Meredith) know that you are a mage even in Act 2. In Act 1 you mostly interact with criminals who wouldn't give a **** otherwise. 

Also in DAO being a Grey Warden doesn't really matter sometimes since they are wanted everywhere.


In DAO I don't get recognized by the Dalish elves as a mage at all. When I toss ****ing fire balls in the middle of Denerim I don't get recognized 

[Darji]

111987 wrote...

Darji wrote...

111987 wrote...

Darji wrote...
All the story has was dead guy came back to save the world while collecting some new companions. That was all the story had to offer. There was no rich story and the ending was  also a huge cluster****.

Okay. You clearly aren't willing to be rational. We both know ME2 was much more than that.

Anyone could do what you just did. "ME1 was just this guy who found some random people and they saved a space station from a robot squid and its robot friends." See what I mean?

The thing is all the rest they told you during the game didnt matter a bit in this game. Take the Witcher 2 for example. Look how they slowy introduced events  and characters and what will happen later and really mattered in the overall story.

Yes it  can matter in the third game but giving all the stuff you heard and descided in ME1 and how it did not matter at all in ME2 I dont think this will happen at all. Espeically if they are tareting an even wider audience who never played a ME before.

The Witcher 2 is a standalone game. Thus it is much easier to make decisions matter. If decisions mattered as much in ME2 and they did in TW2, the game would became WAY too big, and ME3 would become even bigger. It just isn't realistic. Could they have made choices matter a little more? I think so. But i never thought they would be huge in ME2.

ME3 is different because it is the final game. I expect that decisions have a significant impact on my playthroughs.

Wrong the Witcher was not a stand alone game. Yes the it had no real decsions which were integrated in the sequel but the overall world was perfectly tied together while you have the feeling that like 90% of the events that happend in ME1 had nothing to do with ME2 at all.

[Darji]

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

In DAO you were a Grey Warden, and a Circle mage to begin with, in DA2, you're basically an apostate in a city that not only hates apostates but would like to dismember them with extreme prejudice.

Tell me how many times have you used magic in front of Templars when they aren't about to get torn apart by a enemy which makes it difficult for them to actuall see your magic? Also some Templars in DA2 (especially Meredith) know that you are a mage even in Act 2. In Act 1 you mostly interact with criminals who wouldn't give a **** otherwise. 

Also in DAO being a Grey Warden doesn't really matter sometimes since they are wanted everywhere.


In DAO I don't get recognized by the Dalish elves as a mage at all. When I toss ****ing fire balls in the middle of Denerim I don't get recognized 

Yeah like in DA2 when you fight right beside guards in the begining of Act 1. Or when you are going to "rescue" a templar who even says to you in the end  "lucky for me that you are no mage" even he just saw you saving his ass as a mage etc.

[111987]

Darji wrote...

Wrong the Witcher was not a stand alone game. Yes the it had no real decsions which were integrated in the sequel but the overall world was perfectly tied together while you have the feeling that like 90% of the events that happend in ME1 had nothing to do with ME2 at all.

That was my point; decisions didn't carry over. That makes things a lot easier for the developers.

And I don't know how you can say what happened in ME1 had nothing to do with ME2...that's just silly.

[NYG1991]

It'd be cool if the dialog in action mode was preset according to your biography/psych profile from the previous two games.

[Darji]

111987 wrote...

Darji wrote...

Wrong the Witcher was not a stand alone game. Yes the it had no real decsions which were integrated in the sequel but the overall world was perfectly tied together while you have the feeling that like 90% of the events that happend in ME1 had nothing to do with ME2 at all.

That was my point; decisions didn't carry over. That makes things a lot easier for the developers.

And I don't know how you can say what happened in ME1 had nothing to do with ME2...that's just silly.

Ok then please tell me what really mattered from ME1 in the main story of ME2.

[Alex_SM]

1136342t54 wrote...

Actually sometimes it is. Resident evil has done that with Resident Evil 4 and it is still by far the best Resident Evil to date and that year it was one of the best games out. Some game companies actually say explicityly that they like to broaden their player base sometimes but even when they don't say it is still in their plan to do that simply as a company that wants to make money.

I didn't said it never happened. I said that is not usual, and it is not. 

About Resident Evil, I don't know personally (or through internet) any RE fan who thinks RE4 is the best one. The ones I know still prefer the first two or Code Veronica. I just saw some videos of RE4 and never appealed me. 

And I know any companie whants to sell more games, but Is not usual to ruin franchises dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator (except if you are called Activision or EA, unfortunately)
just to ship a few more coppies. And it not usual to listen the devs saying "omfg! you push a button and is awsome!!! Come on you call of duty fans who never liked our games, this is for you!!!!"

[1136342t54_]

Darji wrote...

Ok here.e.

No depth:
there was nothing stats based.

Wrong the stats that we had in DA2 were rather close to DAO if a little limted.

dumbed down inventory,

The only problem me and most people had with the inventory was no party armor.

dumbed down skill tree,

Which was actually pretty good since a lot of those spells and abilities people wouldn't use.

no tactical combat at all.

I used tactics quite a lot  actually.

And no the combat was not the same at all.

Did I say the same? I said similar and named some differences.

you cant set up surprise attacks,

I couldn't really do that a lot in DAO.

all that made DA2 difficult were its spawns which were cheap and unfair and made every first encounter a lucky guess game.

Not really. Most encounters I have I can easily take down enemies by using (some) of the same tactics I used in DAO

And Inorigins it actually mattered in the world of Ofirins if you were a mage or not. It mattered if you were anhuman dwarf or elf. It mattered and people actually reacted differently depending on your character or class.

Not really. It mostly mattered during the Origins and Ostagar. Then later on towards the Landsmeet and final battle. They mentioned it through the game plenty of times but it was never to important.

DA2 didnt make sense in terms of beeing stupid with no overall story at all beside the flashback thing. It were basicly 3 different stories somehow tied together to "one" whole story whioch was not even lazy but also bad implemented.

You keep saying that but I'm starting to figure you just stop caring about understanding it while you were playing. It wasn't hard to figure out what  the story was heading to.

And you want evidence? Mabye it helps that a bioware guy who was also responsible for the story told in an interview that people dont want to read or long dialogues with deep stories.

That is evidence of what?

This is an example why I do not really care for these DA2 arguments.

Whatever I'm pretty much done with this since this thread may in fact get locked because of this.

[1136342t54_]

Darji wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

In DAO you were a Grey Warden, and a Circle mage to begin with, in DA2, you're basically an apostate in a city that not only hates apostates but would like to dismember them with extreme prejudice.

Tell me how many times have you used magic in front of Templars when they aren't about to get torn apart by a enemy which makes it difficult for them to actuall see your magic? Also some Templars in DA2 (especially Meredith) know that you are a mage even in Act 2. In Act 1 you mostly interact with criminals who wouldn't give a **** otherwise. 

Also in DAO being a Grey Warden doesn't really matter sometimes since they are wanted everywhere.


In DAO I don't get recognized by the Dalish elves as a mage at all. When I toss ****ing fire balls in the middle of Denerim I don't get recognized 

Yeah like in DA2 when you fight right beside guards in the begining of Act 1. Or when you are going to "rescue" a templar who even says to you in the end  "lucky for me that you are no mage" even he just saw you saving his ass as a mage etc.

Read the bolded.

[Darji]

Alex_SM wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Actually sometimes it is. Resident evil has done that with Resident Evil 4 and it is still by far the best Resident Evil to date and that year it was one of the best games out. Some game companies actually say explicityly that they like to broaden their player base sometimes but even when they don't say it is still in their plan to do that simply as a company that wants to make money.

I didn't said it never happened. I said that is not usual, and it is not. 

About Resident Evil, I don't know personally (or through internet) any RE fan who thinks RE4 is the best one. The ones I know still prefer the first two or Code Veronica. I just saw some videos of RE4 and never appealed me. 

And I know any companie whants to sell more games, but Is not usual to ruin franchises dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator (except if you are called Activision or EA, unfortunately)
just to ship a few more coppies. And it not usual to listen the devs saying "omfg! you push a button and is awsome!!! Come on you call of duty fans who never liked our games, this is for you!!!!"

Maybe it never really appealed to you becasue it has nothing to do with the classic Resident Evil philosophy.

[Darji]

1136342t54 wrote...

Darji wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

In DAO you were a Grey Warden, and a Circle mage to begin with, in DA2, you're basically an apostate in a city that not only hates apostates but would like to dismember them with extreme prejudice.

Tell me how many times have you used magic in front of Templars when they aren't about to get torn apart by a enemy which makes it difficult for them to actuall see your magic? Also some Templars in DA2 (especially Meredith) know that you are a mage even in Act 2. In Act 1 you mostly interact with criminals who wouldn't give a **** otherwise. 

Also in DAO being a Grey Warden doesn't really matter sometimes since they are wanted everywhere.


In DAO I don't get recognized by the Dalish elves as a mage at all. When I toss ****ing fire balls in the middle of Denerim I don't get recognized 

Yeah like in DA2 when you fight right beside guards in the begining of Act 1. Or when you are going to "rescue" a templar who even says to you in the end  "lucky for me that you are no mage" even he just saw you saving his ass as a mage etc.

Read the bolded.

Really? a normal person would not see if the enemies they are fighting were attacked by a huge fireball? So are templars blind?