1467 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

Vegos wrote...

Is it so impossible to develop an actual stand-alone game within the Mass Effect universe that would be a shooter, a visual novel, or tower defense?

Plus, I still don't buy it. I mean why doesn't this happen in other franchises to such an extent?

I want an Starcraft style RTS in Mass Effect Universe!!! And a Flight Sim too!!! =)))

I have nothing against mainstream gamers but when a game starts compromising a lot to please some gamers that were never attracted to it to begin with, it's likely they will be the ones trashing the game's rep later on!

And it's not like people who enjoy one gender of game cannot enjoy different ones. I play a whole lot of different genres and they all are awesome games.

[Vegos]

111987 wrote...

Not sure what your first point is. Those other games don't exist, so if there are people out there that really love Mass Effect, but are terrible at combat, why not give those people the option to still enjoy the ME-verse without struggling with the combat. Same for those who play action mode; maybe some people really like the story and the characters and thinks the combat looks great, but doesn't care all that much about the additional lore and what not. They don't NEED a game mode to address that, but it is a nice gesture.

My first point is, if those other games do not exist, why not create them then? Just like the addition of Renegade to C&C series for those who wanted to enjoy the tiberium universe from a first-person perspective.

Because the ME franchise is all about choices, and this is just one more choice to make. Besides, what kind of point is that? Just because other franchises don't have a certain feature, ME shouldn't?

Point is, I can get this "choice" talk all the time, but I'm pretty sure the true reasons are elsewhere. Plus, this is turning way too meta for me to feel comfortable about how the word "choice" keeps being used lately.

[Eternal_Lord]

While I'm not against giving more options for players and customizing their play experience, I find this approach rather pointless and silly.

A video game is a game, an experience meant to be played and this particular franchise is an RPG where both dialog AND combat are part of the core experience. If your gripe is that the game has too much dialog or too much combat, then the game just isn't for you. Go play something else or go read a book if all you want is dialog.

[Gh0st_00]

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that this is a very poor arguement?

slimgrin wrote...

Rezources wrote...

It's not about options, it's about blurring pictures of Vegos to gain mass appeal. Pure marketing.

Yeah, we get it douche bag. You wanna be noticed. Now go play C.O.D.

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that this is a very poor arguement?

Modifié par Gh0st_00, 07 novembre 2011 - 12:44 .

[111987]

Vegos wrote...

111987 wrote...

Not sure what your first point is. Those other games don't exist, so if there are people out there that really love Mass Effect, but are terrible at combat, why not give those people the option to still enjoy the ME-verse without struggling with the combat. Same for those who play action mode; maybe some people really like the story and the characters and thinks the combat looks great, but doesn't care all that much about the additional lore and what not. They don't NEED a game mode to address that, but it is a nice gesture.

My first point is, if those other games do not exist, why not create them then? Just like the addition of Renegade to C&C series for those who wanted to enjoy the tiberium universe from a first-person perspective.

Because the ME franchise is all about choices, and this is just one more choice to make. Besides, what kind of point is that? Just because other franchises don't have a certain feature, ME shouldn't?

Point is, I can get this "choice" talk all the time, but I'm pretty sure the true reasons are elsewhere. Plus, this is turning way too meta for me to feel comfortable about how the word "choice" keeps being used lately.

1. Why create an entirely separate game in the ME-verse when they can accomplish all they want in ME3, without detracting from the overall experience?

2. What other reasons are there? To appeal to more people? Well, of course. The point of making games is to make money, and you do that by appealing the largest possible market.

[Vegos]

Gh0st_00 wrote...


Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that this is a very poor arguement?

It is, but going against "X is fat" with a strong one is a waste of the strong one, really...

[Vegos]

111987 wrote...


1. Why create an entirely separate game in the ME-verse when they can accomplish all they want in ME3, without detracting from the overall experience?

2. What other reasons are there? To appeal to more people? Well, of course. The point of making games is to make money, and you do that by appealing the largest possible market.

1) Why not?

2) I kind of have a problem with that. I thought the point of making games is providing people with entertainment, not being able to buy another yacht.

Seriously, at this point the only thing that I care about is the fact that I want to finish my Shepard's story, and I am willing to grudgingly accept the "profit" mentality of EA/BioWare, but that does in no way, shape, or form, imply that I am agreeing, condoning, or even putting up with it. At best, I am suffering it.

So yes, I'm the worst kind of fan, I suppose. The kind who doesn't leave, but keeps being vocal about what they dislike about the new trends.

Modifié par Vegos, 07 novembre 2011 - 01:00 .

[111987]

Vegos wrote...

1) Why not?

2) Let me quote Yahtzee on that. "But even before we begin, I can tell you this: there are two kinds of games in this putrid world of ours, those who are made mainly because developers thought it would be a lovely thing for everyone to play and those who are made mainly because the developers thought it would be lovely to add another ballroom to their golden money palace."

I kind of have a problem with that.

1. That didn't really counter my point.

2. BioWare clearly loves the ME franchise and thinks it's a wonderful thing, but it's good business sense to market it to as many people as possible. It's not like you have to choose between one or the other.

[Vegos]

Ah well, I thought I'd better say it with my own words in the end, anyway.

[Vegos]

Rezources wrote...

You really missed the point there. Yahtzee was referring to most sequels, in general, being money-grabs, cashing in on the success of the first game without changing anything.

Not really. He was talking about games there, not sequels. The sequel rant comes in later.

[ElitePinecone]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

I have a friend - 40 y/o married woman who is a massive sci-fi fan but never has been a gamer. I introduced her to Mass Effect because I knew she would love the universe, the characters and the lore, she even got a 360 solely for Mass Effect (and Dragon Age Origins). In all honestly, she struggles with the combat on casual (has NEVER played games before) and was really worried when she heard the difficulty on ME3 was going to be higher.

She will be over-the-moon about story mode. I'm thrilled for her if she enjoys her ME3 experience more because of it. I'll still be playing on insanity and loving that I imagine. To begrudge her story mode when it has no affect on your/my play through just seems so.... mean.

Yay, positivity!

[tfive24]

Eternal_Lord wrote...

While I'm not against giving more options for players and customizing their play experience, I find this approach rather pointless and silly.

A video game is a game, an experience meant to be played and this particular franchise is an RPG where both dialog AND combat are part of the core experience. If your gripe is that the game has too much dialog or too much combat, then the game just isn't for you. Go play something else or go read a book if all you want is dialog.

A-Fricking-Men. That's like me going asking the devs of racing sims to put an open world mode for people like me who can' t really get into car games. I just came to the conclusion that the racing sims and rts aren't just for me.  

[ElitePinecone]

One thing, though:

Do any of the people flapping and screaming about Action mode actually know what it does?

As in: specific details about *how* it will supposedly railroad the plot and dialogue and reduce choice and lead to goats being sacrificed on the mountains, etc, etc?

Or any evidence at all that this railroading is indeed the case?

Because at the moment it sounds like paranoia.

[dreman9999]

tfive24 wrote...

Eternal_Lord wrote...

While I'm not against giving more options for players and customizing their play experience, I find this approach rather pointless and silly.

A video game is a game, an experience meant to be played and this particular franchise is an RPG where both dialog AND combat are part of the core experience. If your gripe is that the game has too much dialog or too much combat, then the game just isn't for you. Go play something else or go read a book if all you want is dialog.

A-Fricking-Men. That's like me going asking the devs of racing sims to put an open world mode for people like me who can' t really get into car games. I just came to the conclusion that the racing sims and rts aren't just for me.  

But it's not like they are making a new mode for new people. They are taking parts of the full game away. Action modeis just the regular game with the rpg and story element off. Story mode is just thegame with the action elements off.
Withyour example they have to make  anew mode for racing. With ME3, it already is a shooter/rpg hybrid so they ar nor making a new mode from scratch, just dulling the regular mode for other people.

[dreman9999]

ElitePinecone wrote...

One thing, though:

Do any of the people flapping and screaming about Action mode actually know what it does?

As in: specific details about *how* it will supposedly railroad the plot and dialogue and reduce choice and lead to goats being sacrificed on the mountains, etc, etc?

Or any evidence at all that this railroading is indeed the case?

Because at the moment it sounds like paranoia.

I'll use a better example. Think of ME3 as hot cocoa with marshmallows and cream. Now the rpg mode is the cocoa with marshmallows and cream. But some people don't want that in their cocoa. SO they have cocoa with only marshmallows and cocoa with only cream.....Action mode and Story mode. For use we get cocoa with everything on it, for others they can have thing taken of with out effecting use. That is what the mode is.

[Doctoglethorpe]

ElitePinecone wrote...

One thing, though:

Do any of the people flapping and screaming about Action mode actually know what it does?

As in: specific details about *how* it will supposedly railroad the plot and dialogue and reduce choice and lead to goats being sacrificed on the mountains, etc, etc?

Or any evidence at all that this railroading is indeed the case?

Because at the moment it sounds like paranoia.

Of course its paranoia, getting ahead of themselves, ignorance, ubsurd belief that bioware hates them and wants to abandon them any way possible, etc, etc.

Bioware fans are exceptionally good this kind of stuff. 

[JG The Gamer]

dreman9999 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

One thing, though:

Do any of the people flapping and screaming about Action mode actually know what it does?

As in: specific details about *how* it will supposedly railroad the plot and dialogue and reduce choice and lead to goats being sacrificed on the mountains, etc, etc?

Or any evidence at all that this railroading is indeed the case?

Because at the moment it sounds like paranoia.

I'll use a better example. Think of ME3 as hot cocoa with marshmallows and cream. Now the rpg mode is the cocoa with marshmallows and cream. But some people don't want that in their cocoa. SO they have cocoa with only marshmallows and cocoa with only cream.....Action mode and Story mode. For use we get cocoa with everything on it, for others they can have thing taken of with out effecting use. That is what the mode is.

And in this case, I'll take my cocoa with the marshmallows and whipped cream. My co-worker who I'm trying to get into the series, may only take cocoa to start, and then eventually marshmallows and whipped cream.

[Vegos]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

One thing, though:

Do any of the people flapping and screaming about Action mode actually know what it does?

As in: specific details about *how* it will supposedly railroad the plot and dialogue and reduce choice and lead to goats being sacrificed on the mountains, etc, etc?

Or any evidence at all that this railroading is indeed the case?

Because at the moment it sounds like paranoia.

Of course its paranoia, getting ahead of themselves, ignorance, ubsurd belief that bioware hates them and wants to abandon them any way possible, etc, etc.

Bioware fans are exceptionally good this kind of stuff. 

Or maybe the paranoid side is right, and the other side is simply the victim of blind fanboyism, worship, belief that whatever EA/BioWare marketing tries to sell to be the holy gospel and whoever thinks differently is an infidel to be purged.


...I suppose we'll never know. Creepy, huh?


My point is, tagging people with derisive attributes can fly both ways, and doesn't accomplish anything. But I heard it makes you look awesome if you try to paint others as vermin, so there's that, fair enough.

Modifié par Vegos, 07 novembre 2011 - 01:41 .

[Gatt9]

111987 wrote...

1. Why create an entirely separate game in the ME-verse when they can accomplish all they want in ME3, without detracting from the overall experience?

All logic and reason states the contrary,  that it must have detracted from the overall experience.

You cannot be a Horror movie and a Comedy movie at the same time,  you have to comprimise both to make a movie that contains both,  no one was scared during Shaun of the Dead.

You cannot make a game that is both an RPG and a full-on Shooter,  comprimises must be made,  you cannot have quests and content decided by dialogue,  you can't have the game's outcome determined in any significant part by dialogue.  Everything has to be straight forward and given to everyone so the Shooter-kid doesn't miss it.

TBH,  this is Dragon Age 2 all over again.  A series of monumentally bad ideas with a couple people defending it with arguements that defy all logic and reason.

2. What other reasons are there? To appeal to more people? Well, of course. The point of making games is to make money, and you do that by appealing the largest possible market.

No,  you do that by making the best possible game.  Not by appealing to the mythical mass market.  Once again,  instead of these arguements that require one to just accept this faceless "Largest market" that can't be quantified or described,  lets use reason.

What is this Large market?  Is it the CoD fans?  Bulletstorm was a shooter too,  it underperformed.  So was Dead Space 2,  it underperformed.  So was Shadows of the Damned,  it it outright bombed.

So if games designed from the ground up to appeal to those CoD fans didn't sell,  why exactly is it that you're asserting that ripping ME's heart out and making it a full-shooter is suddenly going to do it?

Because that does not make any sense at all.

2. BioWare clearly loves the ME franchise and thinks it's a wonderful thing, but it's good business sense to market it to as many people as possible. It's not like you have to choose between one or the other.

Yes,  you do.  You can't have a game that's everything to everyone,  go look at Spore.  You decide what kind of game you're going to make,  and then you try to make the best possible game of that type.  You don't decide half-way through to make it another type of game too.

Once again,  the RT-TB hybrid era.  Every single one bombed,  for a reason,  and that reason is you don't try and make two different games,  because you lose focus.

[Vegos]

dreman9999 wrote...

I'll use a better example. Think of ME3 as hot cocoa with marshmallows and cream.

You mean "an example specifically designed to get my point across".

I'm sure I could think up an equally good examply why your example doesn't fly.

In fact, I'm sure I have done something similar to some person at some point in the past.

[Doctoglethorpe]

dreman9999 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

One thing, though:

Do any of the people flapping and screaming about Action mode actually know what it does?

As in: specific details about *how* it will supposedly railroad the plot and dialogue and reduce choice and lead to goats being sacrificed on the mountains, etc, etc?

Or any evidence at all that this railroading is indeed the case?

Because at the moment it sounds like paranoia.

I'll use a better example. Think of ME3 as hot cocoa with marshmallows and cream. Now the rpg mode is the cocoa with marshmallows and cream. But some people don't want that in their cocoa. SO they have cocoa with only marshmallows and cocoa with only cream.....Action mode and Story mode. For use we get cocoa with everything on it, for others they can have thing taken of with out effecting use. That is what the mode is.

Kinda convoluted but it works.

Heres an easier way of putting it.  RPG mode is like a pepperoni pizza (or whatever topping you want, lets just use pepperoni for this example).  Some people just want a cheese pizza though.  Its still a pizza, just without the extra topping.  Nothing wrong with that really.  So both options are now on the menu, everyone who wants their pepperoni pizza can have it and everyone that just wants cheese can have that too. 

It is pretty astounding that people would complain about a win win situation. 

[DragonRageGT]

ElitePinecone wrote...

UltraBoy360 wrote...

I have a friend - 40 y/o married woman who is a massive sci-fi fan but never has been a gamer. I introduced her to Mass Effect because I knew she would love the universe, the characters and the lore, she even got a 360 solely for Mass Effect (and Dragon Age Origins). In all honestly, she struggles with the combat on casual (has NEVER played games before) and was really worried when she heard the difficulty on ME3 was going to be higher.

She will be over-the-moon about story mode. I'm thrilled for her if she enjoys her ME3 experience more because of it. I'll still be playing on insanity and loving that I imagine. To begrudge her story mode when it has no affect on your/my play through just seems so.... mean.

Yay, positivity!

I'd tell her to go Insanity all the way. It's the only way to learn how to play. And the satisfation of overcoming the challenge is unequal. She'll never learn it playing on Casual! You can't RP a hero when all opponents sucks badly and have any belief that your toon is a hero!  If your friend  only wants the story, the ME movie will be on the theatres someday. Or the books. I have a 47 yrs old friend, a woman too, who really kick azz at Starcraft! And she was pretty newbie when we introduced the game to her!

I really suck at Batman AA but since I changed from Normal diff, which I finished a couple of times, to Hard diff, I improved so much that I'm impressed that I reached the point of the game where I am now. Stuck, true, but I won't give up before I finish it because on the 11th, it's Arkham City time, hard diff all the way! =P

[DragonRageGT]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

One thing, though:

Do any of the people flapping and screaming about Action mode actually know what it does?

As in: specific details about *how* it will supposedly railroad the plot and dialogue and reduce choice and lead to goats being sacrificed on the mountains, etc, etc?

Or any evidence at all that this railroading is indeed the case?

Because at the moment it sounds like paranoia.

I'll use a better example. Think of ME3 as hot cocoa with marshmallows and cream. Now the rpg mode is the cocoa with marshmallows and cream. But some people don't want that in their cocoa. SO they have cocoa with only marshmallows and cocoa with only cream.....Action mode and Story mode. For use we get cocoa with everything on it, for others they can have thing taken of with out effecting use. That is what the mode is.

Kinda convoluted but it works.

Heres an easier way of putting it.  RPG mode is like a pepperoni pizza (or whatever topping you want, lets just use pepperoni for this example).  Some people just want a cheese pizza though.  Its still a pizza, just without the extra topping.  Nothing wrong with that really.  So both options are now on the menu, everyone who wants their pepperoni pizza can have it and everyone that just wants cheese can have that too. 

It is pretty astounding that people would complain about a win win situation. 

You know that there is no way that such examples can be applied right? Comparing games with food? And the Mode that subtracs from the game with "extra topping"? It would be more accurate to say "A pepperoni pizza with NO pepperoni, please!" =P