1467 réponses à ce sujet

[Vegos]

111987 wrote...

Who said Action Mode automatically makes the big decisions for you? It's just dialogue.

What "big decision" has not been made through dialogue so far, however?

[111987]

Vegos wrote...

111987 wrote...

Who said Action Mode automatically makes the big decisions for you? It's just dialogue.

What "big decision" has not been made through dialogue so far, however?

I think you are smart enough to understand how this would work.

[Bluko]

Yuoaman wrote...

The dialog wheel has always been optional - a lot of people just go with the neutral options and don't dig for information - Bioware is just giving these people a chance to avoid the hassle of even bothering with the wheel at all.

I'm not one of these people, just saying.

I'm sure there are people who skip dialogue at times. But all of it? Eh why would anyone like that get Mass Effect in the first place? The combat is generally fun, but there's better stuff out there if you want to shoot aliens.

I certainly don't blame people skipping dialogue with repeated playthroughs. Although again I fail to see how Action Mode rectifies this. If you want to cut to the chase you're still going to have to skip the pre-determined cutscenes with the press of a button.

[Vegos]

111987 wrote...

I think you are smart enough to understand how this would work.

I don't care about how it "would" work, the only thing that matters is how it "will" work. And that's something we don't know.

And so far, every big plot decision has been made through the dialogue wheel.

[The Sapien]

Awesome! Thanks for listening to the hardcore fans. I replay ME2 so much and am often just testing mods and such so this totally makes sense. It also sounds great for those who do prefer one mode over another for whatever reason. So bonus all around. Drinks on me!

[111987]

Vegos wrote...

111987 wrote...

I think you are smart enough to understand how this would work.

I don't care about how it "would" work, the only thing that matters is how it "will" work. And that's something we don't know.

And so far, every big plot decision has been made through the dialogue wheel.

Another poster explained how the dialogue wheel is still present in certain instances in Action Mode.

So we can make a pretty educated guess as to how it will work.

I hope you aren't being difficult just for the sake of being difficult.

[Vegos]

111987 wrote...

Another poster explained how the dialogue wheel is still present in certain instances in Action Mode.

So we can make a pretty educated guess as to how it will work.

I hope you aren't being difficult just for the sake of being difficult.

Well in that case, that means my point stands, big choices are made through dialogue wheel, so it's not "just" dialogue, it's actually important.

[Bluko]

111987 wrote...

I think you are smart enough to understand how this would work.

I can imagine Tali's Trial...

Admiral Shala'Raan:"Does Cmdr. Shepared have something to say at this trial?"

Pull Right Trigger or Pull Left Trigger
*Pulls Right Trigger*
*Shepard Shoots Tali*
+100 XP

Cmdr. Shepard:"There this trial's over. Now unless you got some more Geth for me to shoot I'll be on my way. Need to level up kthxbye."

Modifié par Bluko, 08 novembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[The_11thDoctor]

I think it's a good inclusion and bad one at the same time. I thought this was just for demo purposes and not for the real game. If so it basically strips the parts that makes ME, ME and makes it not worth playing. The story and gameplay make ME, ME. If you take out story you might as well play a real shooter with better controls. If you take out the combat, you might as well youtube... I guess this might help some people that think they like the shooting but not so keen on all the talking... Well if it makes more fans, then so be it! Power of choice right? But honestly if they're putting time in this, they should spend more time adding modes, like Team Death Match, Death Match etc, etc. They should have it. ME has turned more and more into a shooter and at this point, there is no excuse minus laziness and not having a good solution for how to pull it off. If Co-Op is fun, DM and TDM can be too. If you dont want to play it, it can be just another option for those whom might want to. It just seems odd to only have Co-Op and nothing else. Like Bioware is working on half a tank of gas. They can add some small story to those modes as well.

TDM: Have 1 team of Mrcs guarding a warehouse/ base etc and have C-Sec performing a Bust Op. As the rounds go, you end up in a different sec of the stage or building. You can add level dangers, have civilians you have to watch out for, etc.

Mercs stealing something from some rich tycoon/ robbing a shipment to or from somewhere and C-Sec has been called to stop them/ Specters/ etc

DM: C-Sec VS Mercs, Gang VS Gang, Bartarians VS Vorcha, Geth VS Quarians, etc.

Battles can take place all over the galaxy. Fighting in the Clubs on Omega, Citadel, etc. There can be all kinds of goals for making it fit in ME's universe. There can hacking involved in breaking in, security bots armies to destroy, drug bust, deadly viruses to kill small collectives, territory wars, etc. I'd write a detailed explanation of how to do so, but I think this is long enough text wall.

[111987]

Vegos wrote...

111987 wrote...

Another poster explained how the dialogue wheel is still present in certain instances in Action Mode.

So we can make a pretty educated guess as to how it will work.

I hope you aren't being difficult just for the sake of being difficult.

Well in that case, that means my point stands, big choices are made through dialogue wheel, so it's not "just" dialogue, it's actually important.

You are haggling over word choice, for no apparent reason. The implication of my post was that most dialogue would be automatically chosen, but the dialogue wheel would still be present in specific situations, such as big choices. Anyways I don't even know why you are debating this point.

[Vegos]

111987 wrote...

You are haggling over word choice, for no apparent reason. The implication of my post was that most dialogue would be automatically chosen, but the dialogue wheel would still be present in specific situations, such as big choices. Anyways I don't even know why you are debating this point.

Because I clearly understood your first post differently than this.

So if this is what you meant, then this is what you meant and I see your point, thanks for clarifying.

Modifié par Vegos, 08 novembre 2011 - 07:12 .

[ItsKenny217]

It's an interesting idea, but RPG Mode should be the main!

[The Sapien]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Fifty three pages later and it's the same four or five people arguing.

O___o

...and they're still going at it...

maybe start a new thread?

[Terror_K]

I just can't help where this will go when the statistics flow in and BioWare see something along the lines of, "60% of players completed the game, 80% of them played as a Soldier, and 90% used 'Action Mode' to play with."

I'm sure the first thing after seeing that they'll want to do is make a really deep, dialogue-heavy RPG again.

[Vegos]

The Sapien wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Fifty three pages later and it's the same four or five people arguing.

O___o

...and they're still going at it...

maybe start a new thread?

How about, just let us argue? You know, if you don't want to read it, you don't have to. It's optional, and you should be welcoming the fact that there is an option that ALLOWS people to argue if that's what they want to do, because that will attract a wider audience.

Alright I'll stop now.

[ElitePinecone]

Bluko wrote...
Well that might not be so bad. If some conversations options and the big choices are still presented to the player I'll let it slide. Though that kind of sounds like a bug and this is beta material... (The conversation with Kirrahe is important?)

Truth be told most of the dialogue in these games is inconsequential. So the game speeding through those conversations isn't really a loss.

Although I would say the game deciding to destroy the Collector Base without any player input is harmful. That's namely what I'm concerned about and it seems implied in the description this is what would happen.

I agree with all of this - and I don't think making decisions is what Action does, even if the mangled description implies it. 

If I had to guess, it automates the fillter dialogue in more action-y cutscenes so that they play smoothly and look like your average game that doesn't use interactivity. 

I highly doubt they'd ever automate decisions or options to investigate further. 

[Vegos]

jreezy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I just can't help where this will go when the statistics flow in and BioWare see something along the lines of, "60% of players completed the game, 80% of them played as a Soldier, and 90% used 'Action Mode' to play with."

I'm sure the first thing after seeing that they'll want to do is make a really deep, dialogue-heavy RPG again.

I'm still trying to figure out why you're still on these forums but I can't come up with a logical explanation.

Conscious choice is what I'd guess.

[Terror_K]

jreezy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I just can't help where this will go when the statistics flow in and BioWare see something along the lines of, "60% of players completed the game, 80% of them played as a Soldier, and 90% used 'Action Mode' to play with."

I'm sure the first thing after seeing that they'll want to do is make a really deep, dialogue-heavy RPG again.

I'm still trying to figure out why you're still on these forums but I can't come up with a logical explanation.

Yeah... because BioWare will certainly start to make better games and see the error of their ways if everybody who is displeased with the direction they are taking lately just ups and leaves without at least trying to tell them and express disappointment. Mass Effect will certainly improve with that tactic.

I'm sure we'd have stronger RPG elements such as additional skill-branching and weapon modding or things like everybody having proper armour this time if everybody who was disappointed with it just up and walked away right after ME2.

[Vegos]

Terror_K wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I just can't help where this will go when the statistics flow in and BioWare see something along the lines of, "60% of players completed the game, 80% of them played as a Soldier, and 90% used 'Action Mode' to play with."

I'm sure the first thing after seeing that they'll want to do is make a really deep, dialogue-heavy RPG again.

I'm still trying to figure out why you're still on these forums but I can't come up with a logical explanation.

Yeah... because BioWare will certainly start to make better games and see the error of their ways if everybody who is displeased with the direction they are taking lately just ups and leaves without at least trying to tell them and express disappointment. Mass Effect will certainly improve with that tactic.

I'm sure we'd have stronger RPG elements such as additional skill-branching and weapon modding or things like everybody having proper armour this time if everybody who was disappointed with it just up and walked away right after ME2.

Actually....for all the "It's good that they're trying to appeal to more people" hype I find it rather ironic when the same people go "Why are YOU still here?"

I mean I thought chasing people off or questioning their presence was a BAD thing, something only us ELITISTS do.

[Swampthing500]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Swampthing500 wrote...

As much as I adhere to the "don't like it, don't use it" rule of gameplay options, a part of me is thinking "Why make an RPG and then include options that make it less of an rpg.

You can't design a product to appeal to everyone, and if you do I believe it dilutes the quality. Do not try to constrict or simplify the gameplay. Stick to the genre (RPG) and make it as deep and meaningful as possible.

Right. Why the heck add graphic options? Who would want to play in lesser quality, or on a 20th century monitor? Why add sound options - only those who lost their sanity don't use a 7.1 audio setup. Why add the option to toggle subs? Why add different difficutly levels? Why add options to change controls? Etc Etc

You cannot design a product everyone likes; you can, however, give the player options to tweak the settings so people can play the game the way they like to. It's beyond my understanding what could possibly be wrong with that, but then again, there are (ignorant and arrogant) folks out here who think the way they (like to) play is the only "true" way and everybody else is part of the CoD-plot to take over the (gaming) world or something.

I find your reasoning to be faulty to a degree. Improving graphics and sound are done in any video game. This can be done without diminishing the amount of time spent developing gameplay, because the nature of gameplay itself can be improved, but not vastly altered.

Adding an action mode, it seems to me, is basically introducing a whole new style of gameplay. We already had a deep and engaging method of play. Why add another?It might require going back and editing conversations and quest outcomes so they can be utilized in a more linear style. This takes up time which can be utilized to improve the existing model.

So what we are getting is something similar to a JRPG. I am worried that Bioware will adopt action mode without dialogue and quest choices as the norm. Worst yet, the executives of EA might insist upon it, and create a hostile work environment with staff who may not want to follow their ideas.

Modifié par Swampthing500, 08 novembre 2011 - 08:35 .

[Terror_K]

jreezy wrote...

Feeling disappointed is fine but you seem to be passing judgement about ME3 a little too soon, four months too soon. You seem so sure that because of these additional modes that ME3 will not have these elusive "RPG" elements you love but I'm not seeing any reasons for you to criticize the game at this point. Probably because I don't what you think an RPG is so I don't know what you think the game is lacking.

My disappointment comes largely from the fact that much of the new reveals over the most recent few months have been stuff that I not only dislike, but both don't want at all, feel detracts from what Mass Effect is supposed to be, and is wasted effort when it could be put in improving more important aspects of the game. I still feel there's too much focus on the action and combat, that melee is getting too much of a focus, and that Kinect and multiplayer are a complete waste of time at this point (well, Kinect is just a waste of time period. It should crawl up and die alone in a corner, not be encouraged).

I'm passing judgement based on several factors, most notably the waste of time and effort on factors such as the above and tweaking the differences between these new three modes. Then there's how disappointing and shallow ME2 was, and also what BioWare did to DA2 (Yes, I know... different teams. But same company with the same philosophy at the moment: get as many gamers as possible, and aim more for numbers than quality). ME2 was so shallow gameplay wise, too automated and was linear as hell, with little decent variations and poorly polished sidequests, and yet the developers prior to launch still tried to have us believe it had rich customisation and was still a strong RPG.

And overall that if BioWare making ME3 so much more of a casual, mainstream title, what else has suffered? They've dumbed down the gameplay, so have they also dumbed down the story? Is it going to be overexplained to us like we're children just so the CoD set aren't confused? ME2 already felt like the game was constantly holding my hand, doing half the work for me and a neverending tutorial that treated me as if I'd never even heard of an RPG as it was. It seems like ME3 is even worse with modes like this.

My main concerns are as follows with ME3:-

* Customisation: How much can I acually play with, and how much is automated or just plain simple?
* Missions: How linear are they? They appear more epic, but will there actually be some variation beyond a choice at the end? Will there be multiple paths, objectives, etc. Will there be another Port Hanshan basically?
* Sidequests: How involved and deep will these actually be?
* Exploration: Will there be decent exploration? Will we get a vehicle and a good amount of varied worlds? Will companions and Shepard have dialogue and options there, or will they remain silent, ala ME2 on small, linear, gimmicky worlds?
* Choices and Consequences: Will they have an impact and be really different? Or will they be a bunch of emails, weak substitutions and will most seemingly deep things be either swept under the rug or trivialised to seem largely superfluous?
* Will the Paragon/Renegade system actually allow roleplaying rather than forcing you one way or the other due to the same weak self-feeding system ME2 had, where you couldn't pick an option you should simply because you hadn't kissed/killed enough babies up until then?
* Will skills actually be used for anything besides combat? Will this be a true RPG that allows various methods of accomplishing a goal, or will it be the same combat encounters every time, and tech skills just be another set of combat ones?
* Will ME3 inject some classic Sci-Fi back into the series and bring things a little back down to Earth, or will it continue to be more like a mindless, modern action movie and focus mostly on over-the-top action and "rule of cool" nonsense? Will it stay a mature series aimed at sci-fi geeks, or be a childish action movie in game form for teenagers?
* Again, will choices actually matter. Will this truly be the epic finale of a trilogy, or just the bit slapped on the end where prior choices are just a little extra flavour and little else?
* Will I always get to fully roleplay Shepard, or will he/she say silly things without my input, such as sticking up for Cerberus and blindly obeying TIM when I don't want to, ala ME2?
* Will the PC version feel like it isn't a lazy port? Will quick keys work (and be present), will I have more graphical options and will rebound keys be reflected in prompts properly, etc?