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[MICHELLE7]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

lol Yeah, I'm playing Awakening again and I noticed a couple of things.

When arguing with Wynne over the Cumberland thing with Anders in the party(he's vocal and actually says that mages cant just leave the Chantry), she says you cannot force a change, and the Warden can say then it will never happen. Which is exactly what Anders does later.

Not to mention the Warden is the one who welcomed Justice into the wardens and introduced Anders to him.

There a lot of little things in Awakenings that point to what happens in DA2...at least for me. Not just what the Warden can say in that converstaion with Wynne but the things that Nathaniel says to Justice...it's almost like he's pushing Justice to the decision of finding a living host.

Then you have Justice admitting to the Warden that he envies what Aura and Kristoff had together...but demons envy and the Warden can say that there is nothing with wanting something that is beautiful. I think that being in Kristoffs body was already beginning to corrupt Justice. Velanna asks him if he could leave Kristoff's body if he wanted to and he admits that he probably could but also admits he no longer knows if he wants to.

For me I don't think Anders would have ever blown up the chantry without Justice...he'd still be getting in and out of trouble trying to maintain his freedom. Got to be the most tragic character bioware has ever created. The mage responsible for starting the revolution to gain all mages their freedom will never be free himself...he will always be a slave of Vengeance/Justice.

Justice once accused Anders of enslaving Ser-pounce-a-lot because he carried him around in his robe and didn't let him run around and now Vengence/Justice is pushing Anders further back into his own self and taking over...so now who is the slave. Kinda makes me wish Fenris would just reach inside Anders and rip Vengeance/Justice out and strangle him (without hurting Anders of course).

[Gabey5]

Yes the warden can lead anders down the path, and becoming one with Justice sealed the deal

[LexXxich]

That's full of very big IFs. Warden Commander might be an influence for the path of Revolution, or the person who makes Anders feel at home and content with Wardens. Awakening epilogues reflect that, but we all know what happened to them.

And I'd like to once again point out timeline problems, with Anders appearing in Kirkwall long before he'd be free to do so after Awakening.

[AlexXIV]

LexXxich wrote...

That's full of very big IFs. Warden Commander might be an influence for the path of Revolution, or the person who makes Anders feel at home and content with Wardens. Awakening epilogues reflect that, but we all know what happened to them.

And I'd like to once again point out timeline problems, with Anders appearing in Kirkwall long before he'd be free to do so after Awakening.

I guess we are supposed to overlook timeline issues. Anyway, I agree that the Warden may have triggered certain things, but he/she is nowhere to blame. I don't remember any exceptional anti-Chantry dialogues, not to mention the Warden can hand over Anders to the templars to begin with. In which case Anders still blows up the Chantry. So I don't really see how the Warden can do anything to prevent Anders' action unless he would kill him at some point, which isn't possible.

[Asdara]

Well... at least one of my Wardens carried out the Annulment of the Circle and had Irving and the others carted off and killed by Templars on the suspicion that they might have demons in them... so if that somehow made Anders think she was advocating blowing up a Chantry... I just don't see it.

Now, did the events of DAO and DAA and so on get Anders into the abomination position he was in? Yes, the writers took care of that though, and no Warden I ever played got a chance to intercede on the decision Anders makes to join with Justice so... I'm hard pressed to see it as the fault of the Warden that Anders does what he does. Maybe the fault of "fate" or certain circumstances. Then again - I've played Wardens who would have cheered him on for the fireworks display too... so /shrug.

[labargegrrrl]

Replay Awakenings and Rylock saying "Anders will never submit. To you or to us." Gives me freaking chills every time now. In fact, most of Awakenings just gives me chills half the time now. I just wish there was an option to make my Warden grab some of those boys by the hair and scream "NOOOOO!"

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, I don't know that she was right about him per say. Anders probably would have been content in the Wardens but it is only Vengeance that caused him to become a terrorist revolutionary. And Justice would have been more horrified at the monster that he'd become than Anders would.

[labargegrrrl]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Well, I don't know that she was right about him per say. Anders probably would have been content in the Wardens but it is only Vengeance that caused him to become a terrorist revolutionary. And Justice would have been more horrified at the monster that he'd become than Anders would.

Maybe.  But it still seems chilling, doesn't it?  

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Well, as one person pointed out, its possible that for story purposes in the novel (and therefore the game, since it plays off the novel more than your game ala if you killed anders, *hand of God, he's back and that never happened*) is kind of like in Mass Effect novels that take place between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 mention that Udina is the councilor, even though in your game it could be Anderson.  For purposes of the novel they had no way to know or take into account in a novel what decision the player made, so they had to make a "default" decision for the story.