304 réponses à ce sujet

[Overlord Zakaru]

I would not judge the entire game based off of a fourteen minute beta video. The intro may play out exactly like the video, but the rest of the game we'll have to wait and see something more complete.
For the full complete game we may gain more options for the intro and that all this auto response is just for the beta. It is possible, I think, for Bioware to cut up the dialogue we heard in the video and provide us opportunities to decide what Shepard says.
Nothing is set in stone yet.

[Eckswhyzee]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, it's not like they're going to add sounds later to certain parts of the game like the completely silent scenes or the placeholder voices or perhaps replace/remove entire parts of them.

I also adore how BSN refuses to accept any sort of logic, just because there's ONE thing you guys don't like, which is completely optional.

Now it's all: Butthurt, rage, whining about the oh so dangerous mainstream based on a beta which doesn't even contain the whole game and thinking that you're intellectually superior to other people just because you're playing a damn video game.

Wow.

That is a whole new level of pathetic, right there.

This +100

I honestly don't understand how people keep whining over this "predefined" nonsense. Why would Bioware REMOVE a universally liked feature from a third title in a series just to appeal to a wider audience? Like it or not, multiplayer is ADDING something to increase the value of the game, which is different to taking away an existing system. And before anyone gets any ideas, the Mako was not universally liked and not part of the core gameplay experience, so they were justified in its removal. I was sad to see it go, but I did understand the reasoning behind their decision.

While I'm still ranting, I think the sense of entitlement by some posters is just outright baffling. Mass Effect 3 could have an additional knitting simulator, or an RTS, or a card-matching game, or whatever the f*** else they add in, but as long as it was OPTIONAL and the main game was as good as the last two games, I'm in.

[shep82]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Merci357 wrote...


It's the intro of a 30+ hour game. Those 10 minutes surely represent the whole game. It's not like you could do much while watching the ME2 intro either. If you watched other gameplay videos, there was lots of dialogue in the Surkesh hub.

Bringing up ME2 won't help your case since ME2 was the beginning of the auto dialogue in the game. ME1 had it in one instance, when you're landing on Illos. That was it. It's all throughout ME2, and from the look of the Me3 beta, it's heavily in ME3. There's no reason to have multiple playthroughs when the dialogue is the same each and every one! The surkesh hub had linear dialogue. Look at Wrex. Same with the pre mission scene where everyone is talking, even Auto Shepard. With Kirrahhe it was "Yes I remember you" or "I don't Remember you". The option the player selected had kirrahhe respond, make a comment about the situation, and Auto Shepard made his response. It's ridiculous!

How hard is it for you to get that that demo was set to story mode? In RPG mode no decisions are made for you.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Torhagen wrote...


for me it is pretty clear that the "unique-your-own-shepard-thing" is history since Me2 was released

I agree. Especially after LoTSB and Arrival took 90% control of shepard out of the player's hands. 

SNascimento wrote...
.
Although I have to say conversation and dialogue choices were handled pretty bad in the Arrival DLC... but were outstanding in LoTSB. 

LoTSB had very little dialogue choice. What are you talking about? About 90% of it was automatic.

Yuoaman wrote...

Dude. It's the freaking intro. Calm down, this isn't indicative of the whole game.

Of course, just like the DA2 demo wasn't indicative of the whole game. Right.. Right...


-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

shep82 wrote...

How hard is it for you to get that that demo was set to story mode? In RPG mode no decisions are made for you.

Haha. Right now I'm sure you feel you've made a "Gotcha" statement, but you need to go look at the vid again. Action, Story, and RPG mode are presets for the game's difficulty and dialogue settings. The player chose Story mode which had a certain difficulty, and dialogue set to "Full Decisions". FULL DECISIONS. How hard is it for you to get that? The dialogue was set to Full Decisions, and yet there was 7 minutes of shepard talking without player input. What do you have to say now?

-Polite

[KainrycKarr]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

In fact if you pause at 2:13, the option clearly says "You are required to respond to all conversations. No choices are made for you."

That right there seems to hurt your argument more than help it.

How does it hurt my argument when the player has full decisions enabled, and only gets 1 option amidst a whole 7 minutes of auto dialogue? The video speaks for itself. Stop trying to act as if it isn't there. Anyone who watches the video will see that dialogue is set to "Full Decisions" and yet there is 7 minutes of the intro where shepard speaks automatically, and then you get one dialogue option to be essentially paragon or renegade which yields more auto dialogue. You seem to be in denial. 


-Polite

Actually, you're right, I don't know what I was seeing. It is set to "full decisions". If that is in fact the kind of auto/manual dialogue ratio that's in the final build, that's pretty pathetic, and I'd say your rants would be pretty validated.

However, we should note a few things of this video.

1. It's clearly not even remotely close to being done. The facial animations aren't done, the animations in generally are glitchy, and I swear some of the female lines from the red-shirts were a high-tech form of text-to-speech(obviously not, but they clearly aren't final cuts).

2. The second half of point 1 makes me think a *lot* of the dialogue hasn't been recorded yet, and may have been railroaded a bit for the beta just to get a look at how things play out. There may be(hopefully)more selectable stuff in that first bit of conversation in the final build.

3. I can think of a fair amount of instances in the FIRST game where that ratio is as distorted. Not often, but there nonetheless.

4. EVEN considering that, i can't think of too many drastically different ways I would have wanted to respond to the majority of that first conversation.

So, I'll change my stance that this does add some fuel to your conspiracy theory, but I don't think it's concrete enough given the context. I am sure more videos will be leaked the closer to march we get, and if we keep seeing that kind of ratio, I would definately start getting pissed off.

[RynJ]

I don't know why people argue that there isn't a canon Shepard. Sure there is!

He's Sheploo Earthborn Sole Survivor who makes a lot of renegade decisions on the big choices.

To me the "canon" decisions are the ones that were automatically made when you, for example, start a new game on ME2 without previously playing ME1

On that note, apparently canon Shepard killed Wrex...

Modifié par RynJ, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:10 .

[C9316]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

To be fair, the auto-responses were well-written, well-timed, and well-spoken. The broments with Anderson were especially win, and a dialogue wheel may have disrupted the flow of the intro.

I do hope, however, that this much auto-dialogue will not be the norm.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Eckswhyzee wrote...
snip

Again I'll have to ask where are you going with this? Multiplayer and Mako? I for one happen to like the multiplayer in ME3, so if that's where this is heading...


-Polite

[Yuoaman]

Well, I liked DA2, and I never played the demo so that means nothing to me.

I just don't see the point in choosing EVER SINGLE LINE OF DIALOG when really it just makes it more tedious to get through a conversation that probably wouldn't change much anyway.

[Someone With Mass]

Also, look up the leaked footage of Sur'Kesh and compare it to the intro. There's a lot more dialogues there.

It references the past more than the other games ever had in about five minutes as well.

How many dialogue choices did I have in ME2's intro? Two? Yeah. They covered that front too. Not to mention that ME1 had a lot of instances where the outcome was the same regardless of the dialogue choice.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:16 .

[JG The Gamer]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Merci357 wrote...


It's the intro of a 30+ hour game. Those 10 minutes surely represent the whole game. It's not like you could do much while watching the ME2 intro either. If you watched other gameplay videos, there was lots of dialogue in the Surkesh hub.

Bringing up ME2 won't help your case since ME2 was the beginning of the auto dialogue in the game. ME1 had it in one instance, when you're landing on Illos. That was it. It's all throughout ME2, and from the look of the Me3 beta, it's heavily in ME3. There's no reason to have multiple playthroughs when the dialogue is the same each and every one! The surkesh hub had linear dialogue. Look at Wrex. Same with the pre mission scene where everyone is talking, even Auto Shepard. With Kirrahhe it was "Yes I remember you" or "I don't Remember you". The option the player selected had kirrahhe respond, make a comment about the situation, and Auto Shepard made his response. It's ridiculous!

AGAIN. It's. A. Beta. 30 minutes of BETA gameplay (haven't seen the whole beta, so it may or may not be 30 minutes) does not speak for an entire game. You cannot make this judgment until you have played the complete game. No prosecutor in a court of law for example cannot get a conviction without presenting all of the facts. You are trying to convict on 30 minutes of gameplay when there's 30+ hours of gameplay. Or in this case, about 1.66% of the game. And on top of that, it's an incomplete beta, which probably stands for less then 1% of the game.

People who jump to conclusions should not expect happy landings. Even if you turn out to be right, you shouldn't rush to such judgments. Innocent before proven guilty. Play the complete game first in 2012, then make your harsh and merciless judgment. But don't waste our time with less than 1.66% of the evidence.

[Merci357]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Merci357 wrote...


It's the intro of a 30+ hour game. Those 10 minutes surely represent the whole game. It's not like you could do much while watching the ME2 intro either. If you watched other gameplay videos, there was lots of dialogue in the Surkesh hub.

Bringing up ME2 won't help your case since ME2 was the beginning of the auto dialogue in the game. ME1 had it in one instance, when you're landing on Illos. That was it. It's all throughout ME2, and from the look of the Me3 beta, it's heavily in ME3. There's no reason to have multiple playthroughs when the dialogue is the same each and every one! The surkesh hub had linear dialogue. Look at Wrex. Same with the pre mission scene where everyone is talking, even Auto Shepard. With Kirrahhe it was "Yes I remember you" or "I don't Remember you". The option the player selected had kirrahhe respond, make a comment about the situation, and Auto Shepard made his response. It's ridiculous!

I don't disagree with you, ME2 (and DA2) have far more auto dialogue, compared to ME1. That doesn't imply that there is a canon Shepard, though. ME1 (on a regular basis) had dialogue, where multiple answers led to the very same spoken line. If that is automated now, all that is taken away is the illusion of choice.
IF I still happen to make the decisions, regardless of large or small choices, it's fine for me. The Surkesh hub showed this, like with the Krogan female right before the mission starts.

Still, the sample size to judge the final game is quite small, and the intro really isn't the best piece of evidence.

[Jaron Oberyn]

KainrycKarr wrote...
snip

Glad you noticed. As I said, I'm aware that the beta is obviously not representative of the final product, in terms of textures, audio, gameplay, etc... But for the dialogue, it's been something that's been in ME since the second installment. I'm just not confident that the 7 minutes of auto dialogue was because it wasn't finished yet. 

In regards to ME1, there was one instance of auto dialogue. The scene where you're landing on the planet Illos. Yes there were times where all dialogue choices come to the same conclusion, but I'd rather that than auto dialogue because it wasn't as numerous as the auto dialogue in ME2, and now the 7 minutes of ME3's intro. 

The reason I'm ranting about this is because one of the biggest reasons I play ME over and over again is to see what I missed in terms of decisions and dialogue. It' gets boring and repetitive when it's the same auto dialogue each playthrough, with one selectable choice that's meaningless. We need to bring out concerns about the auto dialogue to Bioware now while they're still developing. Waiting until January, finding out it's the same as the beta, and then complaining won't do us good since the game would be little over a month until release. We need to give them the feedback right now.

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Also, look up the leaked footage of Sur'Kesh and compare it to the intro. There's a lot more dialogues there.

It references the past more than the other games ever had in about five minutes as well.

How many dialogue choices did I have in ME2's intro? Two? Yeah. They covered that front too. Not to mention that ME1 had a lot of instances where the outcome was the same regardless of the dialogue choice.

ME2's intro had about 4 dialogue options, 2 in one scene, and 2 in another, and featured no auto dialogue. ME3's intro has SEVEN minutes of auto dialogue, and then ONE selectable dialogue option. Does it sound to you like ME3 will be very replayable?

-Polite

[Yuoaman]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...
snip

Glad you noticed. As I said, I'm aware that the beta is obviously not representative of the final product, in terms of textures, audio, gameplay, etc... But for the dialogue, it's been something that's been in ME since the second installment. I'm just not confident that the 7 minutes of auto dialogue was because it wasn't finished yet. 

In regards to ME1, there was one instance of auto dialogue. The scene where you're landing on the planet Illos. Yes there were times where all dialogue choices come to the same conclusion, but I'd rather that than auto dialogue because it wasn't as numerous as the auto dialogue in ME2, and now the 7 minutes of ME3's intro. 

The reason I'm ranting about this is because one of the biggest reasons I play ME over and over again is to see what I missed in terms of decisions and dialogue. It' gets boring and repetitive when it's the same auto dialogue each playthrough, with one selectable choice that's meaningless. We need to bring out concerns about the auto dialogue to Bioware now while they're still developing. Waiting until January, finding out it's the same as the beta, and then complaining won't do us good since the game would be little over a month until release. We need to give them the feedback right now.

-Polite

I don't understand your position - you would prefer to spend extra time choosing dialog options that don't matter in any capacity than just play the game?

[Jaron Oberyn]

JG The Gamer wrote...
snip

I'm not just basing it on the leaked Beta, but Bioware's track record with ME2 and the last two story DLC's, LoTSB and Arrival which had more auto dialogue than any other missions in ME2. 


-Polite

[KainrycKarr]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...
snip

Glad you noticed. As I said, I'm aware that the beta is obviously not representative of the final product, in terms of textures, audio, gameplay, etc... But for the dialogue, it's been something that's been in ME since the second installment. I'm just not confident that the 7 minutes of auto dialogue was because it wasn't finished yet. 

In regards to ME1, there was one instance of auto dialogue. The scene where you're landing on the planet Illos. Yes there were times where all dialogue choices come to the same conclusion, but I'd rather that than auto dialogue because it wasn't as numerous as the auto dialogue in ME2, and now the 7 minutes of ME3's intro. 

The reason I'm ranting about this is because one of the biggest reasons I play ME over and over again is to see what I missed in terms of decisions and dialogue. It' gets boring and repetitive when it's the same auto dialogue each playthrough, with one selectable choice that's meaningless. We need to bring out concerns about the auto dialogue to Bioware now while they're still developing. Waiting until January, finding out it's the same as the beta, and then complaining won't do us good since the game would be little over a month until release. We need to give them the feedback right now.

-Polite

And how would you suggest we bring it to their attention? I mean this as a serious question. Because i very much doubt BW will take a bunch of threads seriously, considering at least 50% of the threads made here, are whining, justified or not.

How do you suggest we get the message to Bioware in a way that they might take it seriously?

[Jaron Oberyn]

Yuoaman wrote...

I don't understand your position - you would prefer to spend extra time choosing dialog options that don't matter in any capacity than just play the game?

No. I'd rather they give us dialogue choices. If they couldn't, then give us the illusion of choice. But this nearly 10 minutes of conversation without player input isn't comparable to the one or two lines in ME1 which all had the same outcome. 

-Polite

[Gibb_Shepard]

Biggest scare for me right there. Everything else looked great, but the auto-dialogue far outweighed the good of the beta. The inability to choose my dialogue will hamper my experience beyond belief.

Honestly, this is turning into uncharted in space.

[Yuoaman]

Am I the only one who doesn't just replay to see other paths I could have taken? I play pretty much the exact same Shepard in each playing and I still enjoy myself - the setting, characters, and gameplay are what make the game fun for me. I've already decided on who my canon Shepard is, and I enjoy going through his journey again and again.

It's not as if people don't read books multiple times - even though those are static...

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Merci357 - Look at ME2, and then look at the ME3 beta. ME2 had a general amount of auto dialogue. None in the intro, except the joker convo. ME3 has 7 minutes of auto dialogue in the intro, and then one dialogue option.

@Gibb_Shepard - I agree. It's becoming more of an Action/Shooter game. Why can't we have both good Shooter and RPG elements? Why can't ME3's dialogue options be as good as it's shooting?

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

Yuoaman wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't just replay to see other paths I could have taken? I play pretty much the exact same Shepard in each playing and I still enjoy myself - the setting, characters, and gameplay are what make the game fun for me. I've already decided on who my canon Shepard is, and I enjoy going through his journey again and again.

It's not as if people don't read books multiple times - even though those are static...

Sorry to break it to you man, but you don't have your own canon Shepard. There's the canon Shepard that Bioware is establishing. Nothing else. 

-Polite

[Torhagen]

Seems like the Arrival dlc purpose was to shoehorn every "unique shepard" to the same start instead of having to go through the bother of having to give the players separate intro points or respecting his allegiance to Cerberus or the military
Also the hybrid ammo system seemingly didn't make it into the game

[Yuoaman]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't just replay to see other paths I could have taken? I play pretty much the exact same Shepard in each playing and I still enjoy myself - the setting, characters, and gameplay are what make the game fun for me. I've already decided on who my canon Shepard is, and I enjoy going through his journey again and again.

It's not as if people don't read books multiple times - even though those are static...

Sorry to break it to you man, but you don't have your own canon Shepard. There's the canon Shepard that Bioware is establishing. Nothing else. 

-Polite

What.

I don't think you understand what I was saying at all.

I don't play Bioware's default Shepard and their default Shepard - I only play the one that I made and crafted along the way. This Shepard is mine. While Bioware's default Shepard may get used in other merchandise, or other tellings of the story, I still have my Shepard. If you want to believe that having a default to fall back on invalidates your experiences in the game, then go right ahead.