35 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

... I guess The Architect will transfer his soul into Seranni if you kill him.

Utha dies with Archie if you go that way, but the Dalish Ghoul Girl doesn't appear anymore after her chat with Velanna. But she's presumably still on the grounds.

The graphical styles(even though DAII got a makeover from Origins/Awakening), story, and characteristics between Corypheus and the Architect are too similar for it to just be coincidence. (Corypheus was likely confused because of just being woken up. While Archie has had probably around 1500 years to stew in his tainted little world.)

My guess, the Architect, a former magister, felt betrayed by the old gods after the whole black city deal and wants revenge by turning all the Darkspawn into his Disciples and killing the old gods while they sleep.

And he probably lied about his origin to The Warden-Commander for sympathy reasons. Cause who would ally themselves with one of the people who caused the whole problem to begin with? The Grey Wardens are strong in Andrastian beliefs so a Magister of Old, plus a darkspawn, would be a 'kill on sight' target.

[caradoc2000]

If Corypheus can escape death by transferring his soul...

Objection, your Honor! Calls for speculation.

Personally, I'd much rather have Corypheus stay dead and gone.

[WhiteKnyght]

caradoc2000 wrote...

If Corypheus can escape death by transferring his soul...

Objection, your Honor! Calls for speculation.

Personally, I'd much rather have Corypheus stay dead and gone.

No objections, the final lines of Larius and Janeka are clear.

Also more evidence.

During The Calling. The Architect deceived Bregan, Genevive, and Utha. He claimed he could turn all of Thedas into Grey Wardens by spreading the Taint. Which is not true because the Joining requires preserved Archdemon blood, not just darkpsawn blood and Lyrium(ask Alistair and Riordan.). Meaning his solution was turning all of Thedas into Ghouls. And btw, if a ghoul woman reproduces, the offspring is a darkspawn. And Grey Warden women, except for Fiona for some reason, are barren. So either solution would have brought the end of mankind and the domination of the world by the darkspawn.

Not to mention there wouldn't be enough Warden blood in all of Thedas to turn every darkspawn into a Disciple.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:20 .

[caradoc2000]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

No objections, the final lines of Larius and Janeka are clear.

No they aren't - they can be interpreted in a myriad ways. I'd really hate it if they bring C back.

[WhiteKnyght]

caradoc2000 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

No objections, the final lines of Larius and Janeka are clear.

No they aren't - they can be interpreted in a myriad ways. I'd really hate it if they bring C back.

Legacy revealed three things to us.

1. The Magisters of old really did become the first darkspawn.

2. The old god Dumat is still alive.

3. The Magister Emessaries can survive through the taint.

Looks to me like this is hinting at the future of Thedas.


One of the mysteries however would be how Dumat survived. It's possible he might still be in a prison and the 'experts' guessed wrong. But none of the people who fought the first Archdemon survived to tell the tale. And Flemeth and Morrigan knew beyond the shadow of the doubt that their recycling spell would work.

Perhaps Dumat was saved as an OGB and the person who took the final blow simply died from injuries. Perhaps Flemeth is the Dumat OGB and that's why she can change into a Dragon and has all of those kooky powers.

[AlexXIV]

I didn't play Legacy. So was it also confirmed that the first Archdemon slain was actually Dumat? Because there is the theory that the Archdemons are not really the Old Gods, just tainted dragons. Because I would really like to know what a dragon-darkspawn does look like. I know someone wrote somewhere in this forum that the Architect confirmed the 5th Archdemon to be Urthemiel or what his name is. But well, could be a lie or just wrong guess or whatever.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 novembre 2011 - 02:26 .

[dragonflight288]

There is an altar of Dumat in Legacy that is still active.

And we know the magisters were the first intelligent darkspawn, if not the first darkspawn. The first time I played it, my mouth dropped and I spent an entire week rethinking every theory I had developed on the Dragon Age Lore and Universe.

Most of it was shaken and broken down, so I had to make new ones.

AlexXIV, you really should play Legacy, just for the banter with your sibling (if alive) at the very least.

[WhiteKnyght]

AlexXIV wrote...

I didn't play Legacy. So was it also confirmed that the first Archdemon slain was actually Dumat? Because there is the theory that the Archdemons are not really the Old Gods, just tainted dragons. Because I would really like to know what a dragon-darkspawn does look like. I know someone wrote somewhere in this forum that the Architect confirmed the 5th Archdemon to be Urthemiel or what his name is. But well, could be a lie or just wrong guess or whatever.

The archdemons ARE the old gods. If you read The Calling and played Awakening you would know that the old gods call to the darkspawn and they compulsively tunnel through the earth until they reach one. That's also why the Grey Wardens go into the Deep Roads.  Not just to die, but because they start to hear the song(thats why the practice is referred to as "The Calling").

Also Bregan, the former Warden-Commander of Orlais, knows the locations of the ancient prisons where the old gods are sleeping(All the highest ranking Wardens possess this knowledge). And he admitted he told The Architect where to find them. And the Mother reveals that the Architect started the Blight, and he admits that he found the old god Urthemiel and tried his joining ritual on it.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 06 novembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Corypheus is definitely still alive. The Architect is not revealed to be the same as Corypheus however so it's premature to say he could do the same thing. I think it's more than likely the magisters were the first darkspawn, especially considering Larius seems to think his ability to influenced tainted beings was because it was he that started the blight disease in the first place.

I also think it's a little premature to say that Dumat is alive just because of the Altar. Also the Joining is said to not necessarily require archdemon blood.

[Urzon]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

... I guess The Architect will transfer his soul into Seranni if you kill him.

Utha dies with Archie if you go that way, but the Dalish Ghoul Girl doesn't appear anymore after her chat with Velanna. But she's presumably still on the grounds.

The graphical styles(even though DAII got a makeover from Origins/Awakening), story, and characteristics between Corypheus and the Architect are too similar for it to just be coincidence. (Corypheus was likely confused because of just being woken up. While Archie has had probably around 1500 years to stew in his tainted little world.)

My guess, the Architect, a former magister, felt betrayed by the old gods after the whole black city deal and wants revenge by turning all the Darkspawn into his Disciples and killing the old gods while they sleep.

And he probably lied about his origin to The Warden-Commander for sympathy reasons. Cause who would ally themselves with one of the people who caused the whole problem to begin with? The Grey Wardens are strong in Andrastian beliefs so a Magister of Old, plus a darkspawn, would be a 'kill on sight' target.

While it could very easily turn out that Archi is a magister, I very much doubt Archi wants to kill all the Old Gods. He was experimenting on Urthemiel, for how knows how long, seeing if he could turn he/she/it into an Awakened. While in the process accidently (we don't know for sure) tainting it into an Old God.

I wouldn't discount Archi's story about he thinking he's a darkspawn. He might have gotten Shale'd in his 1000+ years of life. After so long, he might have just started to loose his memories, or he himself was inprisoned somewhere like Cori was. I would loose my mind too if i had to wonder around the deep roads for a thousand years.

That and he might have Tainted less, or he was alot weaker than Cori magic wise. Cori was able to influence anything creature that carried the Taint, even in his sleep. Archi didn't show any signs of being able to control the darkspawn in DA:A. All the darkspawn following him either did it out of free will, because they respected him for giving them a mind, or they followed him out of fear.

Modifié par Urzon, 06 novembre 2011 - 05:58 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think the Architect's agenda is really especailly different than what we were presented in Awakening. His notes you find seem to suggest he is indeed interested in freeing darkspawn from the call of the Old Gods. He seems to think he was wrong to not kill Urthemiel when he found him intially.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 06 novembre 2011 - 06:02 .

[Arthur Cousland]

It would be a shame if Larius/Janeka as Corypheus don't make a future appearance in some form. I hardly doubt that the new Corypheus would simply retire to some beach house and not have something sinister in mind.

Also, who says that Corypheus wasn't in control of those two earlier on? Perhaps the seal on his prison wasn't really weakening and he sent those two to find Hawke to free him, not kill him? In that case, Legacy would be about Hawke undoing all of their father's hard work from before. After all, Hawke is simply accepting what Larius/Janeka says at their word, and they are both clearly under the control of Corypheus, so Hawke could have been a pawn all along.

This is all speculation, of course, though I would like to see what became of Larius/Janeka at some point. Cliffhanger endings suck!

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Actually Serranni is an odd case, while she is clearly a ghoul she doesn't seem quite to be affected the same way as other ghouls. I think implication was that The Architect is capable of manipulating the taint. He promised Armass he would not be infected and Serranni doesn't seem to be suffering the same physical symptoms as other individuals infected with the taint. Any number of things may happen to her in the future.

[PantheraOnca]

How did Legacy give you the impression that Dumat is still alive?

Coryph's monologue at the end sounded to me like he was getting no feedback from Dumat when he expected it, meaning that Dumat was either not speaking or not present/dead.

Granted he's the god of silence, but it seems like Coryph had heard/communicated with Dumat and was upset/surprised when Dumat did not reply to him.

[TheCreeper]

Yeah the impression I got was that while the altar was somehow still working, Dumat was dead and that freaked out Corypheus. I am rather interested in how Corypheus was able to do the soul transfer thing to a grey warden without causing the whole soul destorying thing that happens with archdemons.

[PantheraOnca]

TheCreeper wrote...

Yeah the impression I got was that while the altar was somehow still working, Dumat was dead and that freaked out Corypheus. I am rather interested in how Corypheus was able to do the soul transfer thing to a grey warden without causing the whole soul destorying thing that happens with archdemons.

I also thought the voice at the altar sounded like Corypheus, so maybe it was related to his still being around.

The soul-switch could be a different type of exchange (and makes me lean towards Flemeth being an untainted Gold-city Tev. Magister), or it could have to do with his body still being alive at the time of switch. In other words, standard archdemon transfer the archdemon's body is dead, whereas here Corypheus was still alive.

[WhiteKnyght]

PantheraOnca wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

Yeah the impression I got was that while the altar was somehow still working, Dumat was dead and that freaked out Corypheus. I am rather interested in how Corypheus was able to do the soul transfer thing to a grey warden without causing the whole soul destorying thing that happens with archdemons.

I also thought the voice at the altar sounded like Corypheus, so maybe it was related to his still being around.

The soul-switch could be a different type of exchange (and makes me lean towards Flemeth being an untainted Gold-city Tev. Magister), or it could have to do with his body still being alive at the time of switch. In other words, standard archdemon transfer the archdemon's body is dead, whereas here Corypheus was still alive.

Wouldn't be the first time Bioware has re-used voice actors. Caladrius and Loghain had the same voice, as does Teagan and Gamlen, and so forth.

Plus Legacy confirms what a mission in Origins implies. There's a mission in the Alienage where a Rage Demon tells a blind Templar that there is no Maker or Golden City. And in Legacy, Corypheus claims that they were promised a golden city but it was black. Meaning they were deceived.

As for Felemeth. I doubt she even gives a crap about Tevinter. She seems more akin to the Dalish lore. Hence why the people bend their knee to her. Matter of fact, I'm starting to think the Dalish lore is the truth in the game. The seven old gods who were imprisoned by the Maker could be the forgotten ones and Fen'Harel could be the one the humans call The Maker. he might have created humans out of resentment for the Elvhen.

[jbrand2002uk]

Maybe Flemmeth and Andraste are one and the same though i know the same VA that does male Hawke also does Xennon the Antiquarian in Black Emporium

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Legacy does not confirm anything other than ancient magisters were in the Black City and became tainted because of it. If it was black when they arrived or if it turned black when they arrived, either way they would have been deceived. I assumed that it was Corypheus voice that was supposed to be at the Altar of Dumat, it sounds exactly like him and Corypheus was obviously a devout worshipper of Dumat. 

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 novembre 2011 - 01:54 .

[WhiteKnyght]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Maybe Flemmeth and Andraste are one and the same though i know the same VA that does male Hawke also does Xennon the Antiquarian in Black Emporium

What does Nicholas Boulton have to do with Flemeth and Andraste? And btw, he also voiced Malcolm Hawke and did about seven different characters in Origins.

Also I doubt that. Flemeth doesn't seem the type to play a prophet and raise an army against an empire of mages. Flemeth seems to like power so she could have just made herself an Archon with the kind of powers she possesses.

Also I'd like to add this to the discussion about Corypheus and the Architect.




You have to admit, that's pretty dang similar. And they are both extremely poweful darkspawn emissaries who can talk, think, and aren't compulsively seeking the old gods.

Plus, theres no logical way for the Architect to exist otherwise. His form was, until recently, unlike any other darkspawn which are spawned from Broodmothers of specific races. And not to mention the fact that all Darkspawn are mindless and soulless drones except in the case of outside interference like the Architect's joining ritual.

The obvious explanation was that the Architect lied to suit his goals. Which is a common element in Dragon Age. Zathrian, Anora, Isabela, Jowan, and many more are good examples.

It also stands to reason that they technically aren't darkspawn. If they were born human and became that through the taint then they are ghouls. This could be a unique male equivalent of a Broodmother.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 07 novembre 2011 - 02:26 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

While the similarity is striking, I would hesitate before declaring the Architect must be a magister. There are several things that would have to be explained. He doesn't seem to understand non darkspawn, which would be strange if he used to be one. If he was a magister then I would think he has forgotten.He could very well be telling the truth about his birth. He might not know. I actually had a theory he may have been the experimental product of one of the magisters.

[WhiteKnyght]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

While the similarity is striking, I would hesitate before declaring the Architect must be a magister. There are several things that would have to be explained. He doesn't seem to understand non darkspawn, which would be strange if he used to be one. If he was a magister then I would think he has forgotten.He could very well be telling the truth about his birth. He might not know. I actually had a theory he may have been the experimental product of one of the magisters.

The Calling novel reveals that the Architect is incredibly deceptive and manipulative. He plays the ignorant part well, but when you turn on him he strikes like a cobra.

It's not much of a stretch to think that he simply lied to the Wardens. Cause really, who among the Grey Wardens would help one of the old magisters who caused the very problem they've dedicated themselves to fighting for twelve-hundred years?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

But even in his private notes, he seems to fail to understand why people act the way they do. Did he plant those things in his lab hoping the Warden-Commander would escape and slaughter all his forces but think he was genuine?

[PantheraOnca]

The Grey Nayr wrote...



Plus Legacy confirms what a mission in Origins implies. There's a mission in the Alienage where a Rage Demon tells a blind Templar that there is no Maker or Golden City. And in Legacy, Corypheus claims that they were promised a golden city but it was black. Meaning they were deceived.

Well, let's put aside the fact that the rage demon is a non-reliable narrator.

If what it said was correct, that doesn't mean that there weren't old gods, or that Corypheus had not communicated with them/Dumat before they did the trip to the city.

No Maker or no Golden City != No Dumat.

You could draw the conclusion that Dumat, or the thing referring to itself as Dumat, had decieved the Magisters/Coryph but that is unrelated to the existance of the Maker or the City.

In short, right now I think that there WAS a Dumat, and that it communicated with Corypheus, and that it decieved him, but that it no longer exists. (it could however, just be dormant or choosing to not respond to Coryph. at this time, but for some reason I think its just Gone)