59 réponses à ce sujet

[karthikc]

 No, this is not another oh-no-biotics-nerfed post, although it is related. (Edit: TL;DR schematic below; just read point #1 about melee.)

Basically, shields/barriers/armor presently functions just like extended health in ME2 and possibly ME3. They only differ from health and from each other in the single power that works to deplete them. This is easy to fix and bring in line with the lore, while making the combat more engaging:

0. Shep's armor is a combat hard suit, it should possess a (shield/barrier) layer and an armor layer. (If that's too complicated, just shield+health is fine too, with the following in place.)

1. Going by the codex entry for shields, melee attacks should ignore shields completely. Armor should offer signifcant resistance to melee.

2. Ditto with fire/toxins.

3. Have many enemies with (shields/barrier) and (armor). More at higher difficulties. Then:

4. Biotics can ignore shields, but not biotic barriers, and have a severely limited effect on armor. The exception is warp, which detonates biotic barriers as usual.

5. Tech powers ignore biotic barriers, but not shields. They have a limited effect on armor. The exception is overload, which overloads shields as usual.

It's different from the protection-is-just-more-health Bioware have going, but everything here is logical if you think through. If Bioware do this, no power is rendered useless on any difficulty, and no power is overpowered either.

Armor puts a damper on everything, and bosses can just be heavily armored. Adepts can use all their powers on shielded enemies, but only warp on enemies with biotic barriers, and only stagger armored ones. (Likewise with the engineer). Shockwave and cryo-blast can each be now used against 50% of non-armored enemies, making them useful on any difficulty.

Finally, this brings the gameplay (mostly) in line with the codex. As far as I know, "biotic barriers" doesn't have a codex entry: having them be effective against biotics and gunfire (like kinetic barriers are) ties everything up neatly.

Yeah, the protections ship has sailed at BW; still, I thought the devs might care to have a look. What do you think?

Modifié par karthikc, 06 novembre 2011 - 05:24 .

[PsychoWARD23]

/claps

[Shotokanguy]

I like the way you think sir. I've always been a proponent of making combat as true to the Codex as possible, for sense and simplicity.

I hate the armor bar for this reason. It also adds unnecessary complications to combat and honestly does make biotics less fun.

Shepard not having an armor bar, enemies not having shields that regenerate...the way Mass Effect 2 handled health muddied things up and can be better.

Modifié par Shotokanguy, 06 novembre 2011 - 04:39 .

[Yuoaman]

...this...

Yes, all of my support. ALL OF THE SUPPORT.

[Takio]

Do want.

[SNascimento]

Whatever... the way it is is fine by me.

[Sgt Stryker]

karthikc wrote...

1. Going by the codex entry for shields, melee attacks should ignore shields completely. Armor should offer signifcant resistance to melee.

2. Ditto with fire/toxins.

Best part of your idea, IMO.

[Takio]

Actually, your first two suggestions were how it worked in the first game.

[DKain]

Tech powers wouldn't bypass biotic barrier - the actual biotic barrier. Biotic-users should have regular shields though, because the actual biotic barrier is a power that needs concentration to be active and doesn't work like shields, but does indeed work like extra health.

Armor should function like extra health with more damage resistance.

But you know enemies can just have a health bar, and the cooler armor they have the slower that bar drains. So imo only shields and health are required.

Modifié par DKain, 06 novembre 2011 - 04:53 .

[Yuoaman]

Why wouldn't tech powers bypass biotic barriers? Unless the biotic were focusing on the specific signals sent out by tech-users I doubt they could really throw up more than a general kinetic barrier.

[Sgt Stryker]

I'm not sure if even shields should block tech powers like Overload or AI Hacking, if we're following the lore. Kinetic barriers don't affect electromagnetic waves, if I remember correctly.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 06 novembre 2011 - 04:57 .

[DKain]

Yuoaman wrote...

Why wouldn't tech powers bypass biotic barriers? Unless the biotic were focusing on the specific signals sent out by tech-users I doubt they could really throw up more than a general kinetic barrier.

Biotic barrier does make the biotic focused on it - it is a power. 

[DKain]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

I'm not sure if even shields should block tech powers like Overload or AI Hacking, if we're following the lore.

Shields don't block overload they get drained by it. AI Hacking should indeed bypass.

[karthikc]

Takio wrote...

Actually, your first two suggestions were how it worked in the first game.

I remember. Barrier was no good on my Vanguard getting rushed by thorian creepers.
It was consistent with the lore. It was glorious.

[DKain]

karthikc wrote...

Takio wrote...

Actually, your first two suggestions were how it worked in the first game.

I remember. Barrier was no good on my Vanguard getting rushed by thorian creepers.
It was consistent with the lore. It was glorious.

No that was not consistant with the lore. Biotic barrier is a biotic field that should block anything. 

[DKain]

Arcian wrote...

Gameplay and lore segregation, yo.

Yes, worst thing ever.

[karthikc]

DKain wrote...
No that was not consistant with the lore. Biotic barrier is a biotic field that should block anything. 

From the codex:

Barrier[/b] is a biotic talent available to Adepts, Sentinels, the Asari Scientist, and the Krogan Battlemaster; Barrier is unlockable for Vanguards. Barrier surrounds the user with a high-gravity mass effect field essentially strengthening the player's shields for a certain period of time (or until the extra points are taken off by damage, whichever comes first). Barriers do not protect against physical damage like melee attacks, debris or environmental hazards.

[DKain]

karthikc wrote...

DKain wrote...
No that was not consistant with the lore. Biotic barrier is a biotic field that should block anything. 

From the codex:

Barrier[/b] is a biotic talent available to Adepts, Sentinels, the Asari Scientist, and the Krogan Battlemaster; Barrier is unlockable for Vanguards. Barrier surrounds the user with a high-gravity mass effect field essentially strengthening the player's shields for a certain period of time (or until the extra points are taken off by damage, whichever comes first). Barriers do not protect against physical damage like melee attacks, debris or environmental hazards.

That power should be called Biotic shields, not biotic BARRIER. Because barrier is a shield rather than shields. 

Modifié par DKain, 06 novembre 2011 - 05:02 .

[SandTrout]

Arcian wrote...

Gameplay and lore segregation, yo.

That resulted in a degraded gameplay experience, yo.

[Takio]

Although, biotic fields have been known to block slow (slower than bullets) objects. Such as in LoTSB, when Liara shields the squad from glass and the Suicide Mission, where the Specialist blocks the seekers.

[DKain]

Takio wrote...

Although, biotic fields have been known to block slow (slower than bullets) objects. Such as in LoTSB, when Liara shields the squad from glass and the Suicide Mission, where the Specialist blocks the seekers.

Biotic fields can block anything biotic fields can move. It's like a static biotic throw.

[DKain]

Arcian wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Gameplay and lore segregation, yo.

That resulted in a degraded gameplay experience, yo.

For you, maybe.

He is not alone.