94 réponses à ce sujet

[FoxHound109]

...although, looking at that .gif of the punch, I suppose it makes sense if you mix it with your charge ability. Charging into weak enemies suspends them in the air, which makes them easy targets, and charging at shielded/armored enemies destabilizes them, IIRC, so I suppose you could charge into one and if your heavy melee recharges fast enough/doesn't have a cooldown, you could follow up with it for some serious damage...

[karthikc]

FoxHound109 wrote...

karthikc wrote...

YNation913 wrote...

I'd be happier if the Shepard version added an omni blade into the mix...

Tut tut. An omni-blade is not becoming of a vanguard. :-)

Why wouldn't it? The Vanguard's job is to make enemies think:

The closer you get, the better, and what's better for a Vanguard than having heavily damaging weapons at short range? I was actually surprised when Bioware didn't give the Vanguard the duel omni-blades.

Whatever the animation, all heavy melees do comparable amounts of damage. Omni-blades are unbecoming of the vanguard because the vanguard is a biotic, that's all.

[Yezdigerd]

I was wondering what kind of balancing they done. A vanguard would get a lot more mileage out of a melee attack then any other class. And is there a reason to use a shotgun anymore?

[The Ultimate Jawbreaker]

I want to be able to Pull an enemy in and then... FALCON PUUUUNNCH!!!!!!

[TobiTobsen]

Who needs a biotic punch? Give me an omnichainsaw on my shotgun and I'll be happy ^^

[Schneidend]

Yezdigerd wrote...

I was wondering what kind of balancing they done. A vanguard would get a lot more mileage out of a melee attack then any other class. And is there a reason to use a shotgun anymore?

Shotgun fires faster, delivers ammo power effects, probably does more damage with a precise shot to center mass or a headshot.

A Scimitarguard is able to control a crowd of enemies with Inferno Ammo. Heavy melee will, at best, just murder one guy.

[Aaleel]

Meh, I hope that's not the final version, it looks horrible.

If I get the game I'll probably put the best two mods in my opinion on a shotgun and do it the ME2 way. All the winding up doesn't give me the same effect as just charging and blasting someone in the face.

[Ulthair]

video is gone

[Omega-202]

Schneidend wrote...
Shotgun fires faster, delivers ammo power effects, probably does more damage with a precise shot to center mass or a headshot.

A Scimitarguard is able to control a crowd of enemies with Inferno Ammo. Heavy melee will, at best, just murder one guy.

While on the other hand, Biotic Punch will cost no ammo, can be used if you need to reload, at least staggers the target and may have the advantage in instantaneous damage.  

If have a feeling its going to be well balanced.  Both the gun and the punch will be useful in their own ways.

[SandyWB]

I think it is perfect. Although I think they could tweak the animation and the effects somewhat to make it feel more powerful and 'impactful', but overall it really fits the vanguard. Biotic-warrior needs a BIOTIC heavy melee, not a 'standard' omni-blade.

[Schneidend]

Aaleel wrote...

Meh, I hope that's not the final version, it looks horrible.

If I get the game I'll probably put the best two mods in my opinion on a shotgun and do it the ME2 way. All the winding up doesn't give me the same effect as just charging and blasting someone in the face.

The best strategy is likely going to be to Charge -> shotgun stagger -> melee, as always. Now, though, you have a more powerful melee option for more powerful enemies like krogan, scions, etc. Heavy melee will also be useful for the timing of shotguns with slower fire rates in the same way people mastered the Scimitar's shoot-melee-shoot and Eviscerator's shoot-melee-melee-shoot.

Deeper gameplay is generally always a good thing.

Omega-202 wrote...

While on the other hand, Biotic Punch will cost no ammo, can be used if you need to reload, at least staggers the target and may have the advantage in instantaneous damage.  

If have a feeling its going to be well balanced.  Both the gun and the punch will be useful in their own ways.

I agree. I never made the assertion that the heavy melee attacks wouldn't be useful.

Modifié par Schneidend, 08 novembre 2011 - 10:05 .

[Aaleel]

Schneidend wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Meh, I hope that's not the final version, it looks horrible.

If I get the game I'll probably put the best two mods in my opinion on a shotgun and do it the ME2 way. All the winding up doesn't give me the same effect as just charging and blasting someone in the face.

The best strategy is likely going to be to Charge -> shotgun stagger -> melee, as always. Now, though, you have a more powerful melee option for more powerful enemies like krogan, scions, etc. Heavy melee will also be useful for the timing of shotguns with slower fire rates in the same way people mastered the Scimitar's shoot-melee-shoot and Eviscerator's shoot-melee-melee-shoot.

Deeper gameplay is generally always a good thing.

The animations are just too long from the videos I've seen.  Just make it short and sweet, all this drawing the arm back, blades flipping out, power charging around your fist stuff.  Just let me hit the person and move on.

I charge, shotgun, and melee while moving forward and keep the party going.  These melee attacks look like they almost stop you, draw back, ready the blade, biotic attack, whatever, strike and recoil back. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 08 novembre 2011 - 10:18 .

[Schneidend]

Aaleel wrote...


The animations are just too long from the videos I've seen.  Just make it short and sweet, all this drawing the arm back, blades flipping out, power charging around your fist stuff.  Just let me hit the person and move on.

Well, you are doing that, except you're doing several times the damage of several light melee attacks in less time than it would take to actually perform said light melee combo.

Again, heavy melee is for heavy targets, not basic mooks like Blue Suns Troopers. Charge, shoot krogan in the face, then FALCON PAWNCH him in the face. Do it fast enough and you'll probably be well on your way to finishing the animation while time dilation is still active. Couple this with the fact that the new skill upgrade system will probably allow you to increase time dilation duration and add a perk/evolution that increases melee damage for a limited time after a Charge, and Shepard's got the proverbial Right Hand o' Doom!

[karthikc]

The animations are just too long from the videos I've seen. Just make it short and sweet, all this drawing the arm back, blades flipping out, power charging around your fist stuff. Just let me hit the person and move on.

Obviously, you can still do that.

The heavy melee is an additional option. It's fair that it comes at a time cost; the payoff is the extra damage.

[YNation913]

The vanguard's biotics have always been about getting enemies where you want them so that you can finish them with a gun. So if most of the vanguard's kills come from weapons, what's wrong with having an omni blade?

[Schneidend]

YNation913 wrote...

The vanguard's biotics have always been about getting enemies where you want them so that you can finish them with a gun. So if most of the vanguard's kills come from weapons, what's wrong with having an omni blade?

Because that's the Soldier's shtik?

I much prefer the biotic punch for Vanguards.

Modifié par Schneidend, 08 novembre 2011 - 10:38 .

[Omega-202]

My only issue with the version from the video is the lack of a follow through. The character seems to pull the end of his punch unnaturally as if he just punched a brick wall instead of punching through his target.

Take a look at any boxer delivering a right hook. His fist doesn't hit the opponents face and stop. Its especially jarring in its current incarnation because the enemy isn't always exactly where the fist comes to a halt.

[YNation913]

Schneidend wrote...

YNation913 wrote...

The vanguard's biotics have always been about getting enemies where you want them so that you can finish them with a gun. So if most of the vanguard's kills come from weapons, what's wrong with having an omni blade?

Because that's the Soldier's shtik?

I much prefer the biotic punch for Vanguards.

But the vanguard's (as it is now) is practically the same as the adept's anyway...

[karthikc]

Omega-202 wrote...

My only issue with the version from the video is the lack of a follow through. The character seems to pull the end of his punch unnaturally as if he just punched a brick wall instead of punching through his target.

Take a look at any boxer delivering a right hook. His fist doesn't hit the opponents face and stop. Its especially jarring in its current incarnation because the enemy isn't always exactly where the fist comes to a halt.

Think of it as a biotic power, not a physical punch, and that makes sense.

Nevertheless, a followthrough animation is tricky business. If you punch an atlas mech or something that does not register an impact, for instance, you will clip through the object in the followthrough. Some of the other classes (engineer) might already have this problem.  

YNation913 wrote...

The vanguard's biotics have always been about getting enemies where you want them so that you can finish them with a gun. So if most of the vanguard's kills come from weapons, what's wrong with having an omni blade?

The point is that the vanguard does not rely on her omnitool for anything. Apart from, of course, controlling the armor, administering medigel and as a computer. Besides, consider that four classes (all except adept, vanguard) already use the omnitool for their heavy melees. Something different is welcome.

Anyway, I don't personally have a problem with the vanguard using a biotic fist, omni-blade, psi-blade, a knee or her head for the heavy melee. 

Modifié par karthikc, 08 novembre 2011 - 10:54 .

[Schneidend]

Omega-202 wrote...

My only issue with the version from the video is the lack of a follow through. The character seems to pull the end of his punch unnaturally as if he just punched a brick wall instead of punching through his target.

Take a look at any boxer delivering a right hook. His fist doesn't hit the opponents face and stop. Its especially jarring in its current incarnation because the enemy isn't always exactly where the fist comes to a halt.

Push-punching is for amateurs. Snap punching is where it's at. Shep snap punches for maximum effectiveness and energy efficiency.

[YNation913]

karthikc wrote...

Think of it as a biotic power, not a physical punch, and that makes sense.

Nevertheless, a followthrough animation is tricky business. If you punch an atlas mech or something that does not register an impact, for instance, you will clip through the object in the followthrough. Some of the other classes (engineer) might already have this problem.  

Oh that's a bummer. My vision of the vanguard attack was something like an omni stab quickly followed by a biotic pulse from the same arm while it's still extended that pushes the enemy back. Man, that'd be cool, I think...

[karthikc]

Schneidend wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

My only issue with the version from the video is the lack of a follow through. The character seems to pull the end of his punch unnaturally as if he just punched a brick wall instead of punching through his target.

Take a look at any boxer delivering a right hook. His fist doesn't hit the opponents face and stop. Its especially jarring in its current incarnation because the enemy isn't always exactly where the fist comes to a halt.

Push-punching is for amateurs. Snap punching is where it's at. Shep snap punches for maximum effectiveness and energy efficiency.

A handwave if I ever saw one.

[Schneidend]

karthikc wrote...

A handwave if I ever saw one.

Well your hand is supposed to be relaxed as you throw the punch, and only tightened at the point of impact, then released as you pull back. So, yeah, it's kind of like waving your hand! 

[karthikc]

YNation913 wrote...

Oh that's a bummer. My vision of the vanguard attack was something like an omni stab quickly followed by a biotic pulse from the same arm while it's still extended that pushes the enemy back. Man, that'd be cool, I think...

Rule of cool dictates a lot of things, but consider that the entire animation (including recovery) needs to play in one second, while moving at a believable speed. An omni-stab followed by a biotic pulse would allow for no wind up time--crucial to make the player vulnerable just before the melee.

It would look great, I agree. Even better on the sentinel, actually.

[100k]

karthikc wrote...

Click for animation:

In my opinion its the best one. Yes, it is sort of similar to the Adapt palm, but the fact that it has an enviromental effect (throws the enemies away) makes it even better.