198 réponses à ce sujet

[GMagnum]

he aint in jail cuz he paid dem off by giving dem free crack rox

[IanPolaris]

naledgeborn wrote...
@ Ian

Mass Effect 3 takes place 6-12 months after Arrival. This has been confirmed by the developers. It happens to be reasonable amount of time for various other explanations.

Gotta disagree there strenously.  Given the time-frame, it's unreasonable to think that TIM wasn't using/setting up Shep the entire time.  Indeed ME2 alludes to this multiple times.

-Polaris

[Bad King]

I agree with Saphra's post, but I think the title is somewhat misleading- as you said it's more likely they'd sweep him under the rug than throw him in prison.

[IanPolaris]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

@ Saphra. You're right except for one thing: Anderson had become an admiral before his treasonous actions.

When did he become an Admiral? I'm not picking an arguement, but you're normally quite good at knowing the lore and I'm curious to know - I made him councilor so I'd like to know when he became an Admiral.

Anderson becomes an Admiral very soon after the events of ME1 unless you make him councilor in which case he is forced to resign from the military.

-Polaris

The wiki is normally pretty on the ball with ME stuff, and according to the timeline ME2 occurs in 2185 and Arrival in 2186. I'm also pretty sure there were some tweets a while ago amounting to much the same thing,

Which is within months just as I was saying...certainly less than a year.  You telling me that Cerberus somehow went from 150 people in a handful of cells to a standing army for the Reapers in less than a year?

No way.  Shepard (and yes EDI too) were lied to, bottom line.

-Polaris

[General User]

Consider: The 150 person figure represents Cerberus' current active cell-members, not the total manpower they can leverage.

[LGTX]

They could have pulled an army out of their arses in a week for all we know. ME is a sci-fi universe where cloning and tank-breeding is like fire and water. We never know.

[Homebound]

Saphra Deden wrote...

So why is 'Admiral' Anderson still part of the Alliance and not in jail or at least discharged from the Alliance?

In Retribution he gave sensitive information pertaining to Cerberus and its connections to the Alliance to the turians. They then used this information to launch a raid against Cerberus that also included arresting Alliance officials. The fallout from this was implied to have been bad, with Anderson pre-emptively resigning his posting at the Citadel. At the end of the novel he told Kahlee Sanders that he had friends outside of the Alliance  who would be helping him.

To me this indicated that at the very least he was going to be on his own and operating independently of the Systems Alliance. Truth be told, I never figured they'd arrest him or charge him with anything because of his fame. It is easier to just sweep him under the rug and cut his pensions.

I find it hard to believe he would still be with the Alliance as a commissioned officer. No matter how good his intentions, his brash move to share intel with the turians damaged the Alliance severely. Many of their members were imprisoned by the turians and the Alliance was publicly humiliated, its credibility destroyed. His move was dangerous and risked Alliance secrets being leaked to the turians who even under the best of circumstances are still a military rival. In a Renegade universe this is especially jarring because the SA and turian Hierarchy are on fairly bad terms with the latter defying conventions and begining a military buildup. The only recent cooperation with the two being the Alliance tacit approval of turian military power in response to the batarians and the two working together to track a lost survey ship.

I really doubt that the turians will take those captured Cerberus/Alliance infiltrators and just grill them for dirt on Cerberus. Part of their job as spies would have surely been to discover Alliance secrets and spill them to Cerberus. Now they can be spilled to the turians. This makes the Alliance weaker by reducing its leverage against the turians in any disputes.

Anderson is lucky his little stint didn't start a war.

So, again, why is he still part of the Alliance? Quitting his posting at the Citadel also sort of implied his position in the Alliance was gone, right? I mean it is not up to him to quit his job like that. The Alliance tells him where he will serve, he doesn't get to make that decision.

What gives?

im sure Shepard will get an e-mail about it.

[IanPolaris]

LGTX wrote...

They could have pulled an army out of their arses in a week for all we know. ME is a sci-fi universe where cloning and tank-breeding is like fire and water. We never know.

Actually not really.  Apparently it's really hard to mass clone people (see Okeer) at least not without Collector/Reaper tech as usuable shock troops.  (If you have to grow and train them naturally, it's not much improvement over normal soldiers).

So baring outright magic, the only reasonable (and logical) conclusion is that Shepard (and EDI) were lied to.  Given TIM's history and the fact that less than a year after the Suicide Mission, Cerberus is now working for the Reapers, I think it's a very reasonable conclusion. 

Bottom line:  During all of ME2, Shepard was being played, and the only thing you can do that really puts a crimp in the Reaper's plan is the destruction of the Collector Base (which seems to have been TIM's goal in ME2 all along).

-Polaris

[Bad King]

LGTX wrote...

They could have pulled an army out of their arses in a week for all we know. ME is a sci-fi universe where cloning and tank-breeding is like fire and water. We never know.

And a universe where rich caches of unexcavated prothean technology are waiting to be picked...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8419209

/end self promotion.

Modifié par Bad King, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:39 .

[IanPolaris]

Bad King wrote...

LGTX wrote...

They could have pulled an army out of their arses in a week for all we know. ME is a sci-fi universe where cloning and tank-breeding is like fire and water. We never know.

And a universe where rich caches of unexcavated prothean technology are waiting to be picked...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8419209

/end self promotion.

All of this really backs up what I am saying.  Cerberus played Shepard and used him the entire ME2 probably (almost certainly) in order to open up the Omega-4 relay and capture the Collector Base for TIM.  I don't think TIM ever was a real enemy of the Reapers...he just pretended to be one to get what he wanted.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  Also the Reapers destroyed almost all traces of Prothean civilization.  This was a big plot point in ME1.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:48 .

[CaptainZaysh]

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually not really.  Apparently it's really hard to mass clone people (see Okeer) at least not without Collector/Reaper tech as usuable shock troops.

Which is exactly what they've got, right?

[IanPolaris]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Bad King wrote...

I agree with Saphra's post, but I think the title is somewhat misleading- as you said it's more likely they'd sweep him under the rug than throw him in prison.

The title is meant to be attention grabbing.

@IanPolaris

So what was Cerberus' goal in ME2?

1.  The opening up of the Omega 4 relay for Cerberus (and Cerberus only).
2.  The capture of the Collector Base.

-Polaris

[CroGamer002]

General User wrote...

Consider: The 150 person figure represents Cerberus' current active cell-members, not the total manpower they can leverage.

Oh and there's 40-50 Cerberus bodies in Overlord I counted and there should be more in inaccessible ares.

And if you bring Tali or Garrus and maybe works with Jacob on Derelict Reaper and talk about Dragon Teethes and choose Paragon or Neutral option( can't remember) Shepard will say Cerberus team in this Reaper is at least 100 people strong.

And there's also a thing we can do in ME1 with Cerberus and thing that Anderson does in Retribution.



Cerberus definitely doesn't have only 150 people in entire organization.

[IanPolaris]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually not really.  Apparently it's really hard to mass clone people (see Okeer) at least not without Collector/Reaper tech as usuable shock troops.

Which is exactly what they've got, right?

We also know that you can't handle Reaper Tech safely without becoming indoctrinated and Cerberus' own history with Reaper Tech should be a salutory warning to those that think they can beat indoctrination.

-Polaris

[naledgeborn]

GMagnum wrote...

he aint in jail cuz he paid dem off by giving dem free crack rox

Anderson be on his grind son, u aint kno!!

[CroGamer002]

General User wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Why don't we also jail Shepard for stealing the Normandy?

Shepard's stealing the Normandy ultimately had only positive consequences.

And so does Anderson action.


He did a huge blow on enemy of both Council and Alliance.

[Bad King]

IanPolaris wrote...

Bad King wrote...

LGTX wrote...

They could have pulled an army out of their arses in a week for all we know. ME is a sci-fi universe where cloning and tank-breeding is like fire and water. We never know.

And a universe where rich caches of unexcavated prothean technology are waiting to be picked...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8419209

/end self promotion.

All of this really backs up what I am saying.  Cerberus played Shepard and used him the entire ME2 probably (almost certainly) in order to open up the Omega-4 relay and capture the Collector Base for TIM.  I don't think TIM ever was a real enemy of the Reapers...he just pretended to be one to get what he wanted.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  Also the Reapers destroyed almost all traces of Prothean civilization.  This was a big plot point in ME1.

Nope, Cerberus had other motives throughout ME2 as well as capturing Collector tech. If you read the mission complete screens (which show TIM's viewpoint on missions that Shepard has completed), TIM advocates curing the genophage and uniting the geth and quarians. He even claims that destroying the collector base was a victory (if Shepard dies). In Retribution he studies Grayson to try and learn more about the reapers, and when grayson escapes he attempts to terminate him. TIM's siding with the reapers in ME3 is a u-turn that has occurred between ME2 and ME3, not during ME2.

[Bad King]

Saphra Deden wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

1.  The opening up of the Omega 4 relay for Cerberus (and Cerberus only).
2.  The capture of the Collector Base.

-Polaris

That's it? That doesn't strike me as very nefarious. It also doesn't really make sense. How does it justify resurrecting Shepard or building the SR2? None of that was necessary.

They didn't even know there was a Collector 'base'.

This too. Cerberus wanted Shepard not only for fighting the collectors but to be a symbol in fighting the reapers. He could have raised a small army for what he spent bringing Shepard back from the dead, but he knew that Shepard would be more useful in the long term fight.

[IanPolaris]

Mesina2 wrote...

Cerberus definitely doesn't have only 150 people in entire organization.

I agree, but that IS the information that EDI has and gives to Shepard.  That being so and given that we know in ME3 that Cerberus openly allies itself with the Reapers, I think it's pretty clear that TIM was lying to Shepard about almost everything from the very start.

Best guess, Miranda was supposed to be TIM's safeguard in case Shepard/Normandy SR2 slipped it's leash but somehow that went wrong (the obvious branch in many paragon playthroughs is that Miranda renounces Cerberus when ordered to capture the base).

-Polaris

[Merchant2006]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

*Sits in the back and eat's his pizza quietly while watching other's arguing*.

*kicks up feet onto desk and smiles*

Modifié par Merchant2006, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:58 .

[LGTX]

IanPolaris wrote...

LGTX wrote...

They could have pulled an army out of their arses in a week for all we know. ME is a sci-fi universe where cloning and tank-breeding is like fire and water. We never know.

Actually not really.  Apparently it's really hard to mass clone people (see Okeer) at least not without Collector/Reaper tech as usuable shock troops.  (If you have to grow and train them naturally, it's not much improvement over normal soldiers).

So baring outright magic, the only reasonable (and logical) conclusion is that Shepard (and EDI) were lied to.  Given TIM's history and the fact that less than a year after the Suicide Mission, Cerberus is now working for the Reapers, I think it's a very reasonable conclusion. 

Bottom line:  During all of ME2, Shepard was being played, and the only thing you can do that really puts a crimp in the Reaper's plan is the destruction of the Collector Base (which seems to have been TIM's goal in ME2 all along).

-Polaris

Okeer was one krogan with a crazed mind. Here, we have CERBERUS, and the Collector Base and all that mumbo-jumbo which is absolutely unknowable when it comes to utilization. Anything is possible, and I believe unwinding the mystery army of TIM might be one of ME3's major plot points. You may be right, but don't rule stuff out this early and with so little data.

Also, TIM used the Collector Base (or its remains) to test Reaper tech on humans. He was definitely planning on USING it with in the most direct way.