170 réponses à ce sujet

[Adugan]

 Origin basically SAYS "we will scan your computer for relevant information and sell this information to third parties in order to provide more relevant ads to you". 




NO U EA

[onelifecrisis]

Customz wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

RyuujinZERO wrote...

 Let's look at this another way....

Whatever was wrong with the old days where you could just INSTALL a game, off a disk, and not have to worry about DRM, cludging up your PC with 3rd party software, online authorisation etc etc etc.


And don't say "since piracy" - because god knows DRM doesn't work at preventing it. Skyrim isn't even OUT yet, and it's already been pirated on the xbox.

Actually, Ubisoft's version of Origin (I forget the name) has proven exceptionally good at defeating piracy, but that one does require a constant connection to the Ubisoft servers to play SP games.

To be honest with you, when going on vacation I ended up cracking Assasin's Creed 2 because I wouldn't have permanent internet, so the drm didn't work that well.

As for your tests that's good news. But what I said still stands, just because the game is sp does not mean Origin or anyother game, or game platform for that matter is not connecting to the internet.

I just saw a "funny" video where origin seems to scan people's computer, including Steam's folder O.o, before you even accept the TOS. I'm going to try to reproduce this to see if it's true.

AC2 was eventually cracked, but not until well after the initial sales surge. Publishers don't much care if a game gets cracked a month after release because by that time it makes little difference to their margin, so the DRM actually worked.

[Balek-Vriege]

The only difference between Steam's scanning of personal information and Origin's scanning is the EULA and what it "alllows." Steam's agreement I think is more specific about which data it scans for (games installed, computer hardware and steam related things). I agreed to a survey just last week to see what it does and it did the above (although it scanned by computer hardware instantly....hmmm ).

Origin's EULA doesn't mince words and just says it can scan anything. While the intention of the scan is probably exactly what Steam goes for, it leaves a legal hole allowing them to do much more than that. One reason they may have made the EULA so intrusive is because they want to protect themselves incase someone hacks Origin so they can't be sued for it. Then again, 3rd party hackers wouldn't be part of the agreement in the first place. So it still doesn't make sense for them not to scale back the legal wording.

It's the only reason why I haven't preordered Mass Effect 3 yet until I fully understand what Origin does and doesn't do. Worse case scenario is that it remains the same and I just download it anyways since I use another computer with non gaming activity etc.

[Carfax]

Raygereio wrote...

The intent with which EA did this doesn't even matter. They could be searching for my birthday so that they can send me flowers on the right date for all I care. They have no business searching through my hard drive without my permission and let's not even start on the legal issues.

And the solution is, don't download or use Origins..  No one is forcing you to use it.

Oh and the difference between EA and Valve in this case is that - as far as I and the entire Internet for that matter know - Steam asks you if you're okay with it  gathering some information from your computer. Heck, the last time Steam did that, it even showed me what information it gathered before I had to give the final okay to send it to Valve.
Origin doesn't ask and Origin searches through files Steam doesn't touch. Big difference.

LOL Steam asks you eh?  This is their privacy policy:

Collection and Use of Information

By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties.

Sounds like asking to me

Another tidbit:

Furthermore, external websites and companies with links to and from Valve's online sites and products may collect personal information about users. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to these external websites and companies. Please refer directly to these companies and websites regarding their privacy policies.

Carfax wrote...
An analogy so false it's absurd: I choose to install that defragger or virus scanner  with full knowledge of what it's going to do: namely scan my hard drive with a benign purpose. In fact doing that are those program's sole purpose, or in the case of the OS critical to it's function.
Again; not so with Origin.

And what proof or evidence do you have that Origins is collecting peoples' information for nefarious rather than benign purposes?

Nothing?  I thought so...  Honestly, you are just a paranoid EA hater, and so is Iltoon.

Modifié par Carfax, 06 novembre 2011 - 03:22 .

[didymos1120]

Customz wrote...

Just finished running origin's setup, up to the TOS which I declined canceling the install. I monitored this with Process Monitor. The setup tried creating files on some other programs' directories, programs I didn't have, namely: nero, quickcam, google toolbar, encarta, daytona usa evolution, creating keepsakes scrapbook designer(wtf!), heavy gear 2)activision game?) and turbo tax 2008, and this was even before installing. It did not attempt to connect to the internet during this period though

OK, here's the thing:  those "Create" calls to the Windows API?  The same function is used when something just asks for a directory listing. It's not actually creating all those files.  They already existed.

[uzivatel]

Its similar to various Steam controversies back in the day. In time, PC gamers came to accept Steam and they are probably going to accept Origin as well.

[Doctoglethorpe]

People don't like new things.  Simple as that. 

Origin ain't bad.  In fact its pretty decent.  Getting better and thats all that matters.  Doesn't have to be perfect right out the gate. 

[JenMaxon]

onelifecrisis wrote...
Actually, Ubisoft's version of Origin (I forget the name) has proven exceptionally good at defeating piracy, but that one does require a constant connection to the Ubisoft servers to play SP games.

Yeah, and it's done an exceptionally good job at stopping me from buying Ubisoft games.  I bought Anno 1404 and I really like the game but 1. I no longer play it much because if the Internet connection is iffy (which it is periodically round here), I get sick of the constant pausing or simple inaccessibility of the game and 2. I haven't bought a single thing from them since because of that experience.  There are some Ubisoft games I would have liked to have tried but <shrug> it ain't happening. 

[Shermos]

I read a study (can't find the link now) a while which showed that all this DRM crap is actually doing more to harm game sales then good. Just thought I'd throw that in.

I don't think Origin is quite meant as a form of DRM but to search hardrives for advertising purposes, a little bit like how Google keeps track of search terms.

"Because people don't want EA to know how much porn and piracy they do."

Lol'd and true. But seriously, in my case, I don't like a private company having the potential to access private info on me. There's no real control on what they can do with it. But I can think of many worse cases of this occurring than with EA and Origin.

[Raygereio]

Carfax wrote...
And the solution is, don't download or use Origins..  No one is forcing you to use it.

Yes and no.
Yes in the sence that no one is pointing a gun at my head to buy EA's games. But if Origin turns out to be ME3's DRM then EA is forcing me to use it in order to play the game in a legal manner and do mind that Origin is in no way necesary for ME3 to function.

Carfax wrote...
LOL Steam asks you eh?  This is their privacy policy:

Do you have evidence to the contrary? Don't quote the EULA: provide proof. Because if Valve actually did that - unless they're the world sneakiest programmers - it would have been long since discovered and documented on the Internet.
Provide proof, or it's just a baseless accusation comming from you.

Carfax wrote...
And what proof or evidence do you have that Origins is collecting peoples' information for nefarious rather than benign purposes?

Read my post. That tends to help if you want to form a coherent reply. I said intent doesn't matter. The very principle if it is simply wrong.

Carfax wrote...
Honestly, you are just a paranoid EA hater, and so is Iltoon.

And you're apparent an EA fanboy. Your point is? I have actually nothing against EA in particular (heck, if you'd have bothered to do a quick search instead of being lazy and trying to score points with that one-liner you can find posts from me on this board where I've defended EA).
I have a problem with stupidity and you'd have to be pretty darn detached fron reality to not agree that it  is an offense to common sense for a company to deliberatly make the illegal version of their game the superior one.

Modifié par Raygereio, 06 novembre 2011 - 03:53 .

[Scimal]

uzivatel wrote...

Its similar to various Steam controversies back in the day. In time, PC gamers came to accept Steam and they are probably going to accept Origin as well.

I'd have to cautiously agree.

While Steam did cause a fuss, Valve went out of their way to assuage fears by posting their Privacy Policy online and making it so the service itself doesn't market anything to you (there aren't any banner ads when you start Steam).

EA has a history of crippling DRM decisions... everything from completely invasive and aggressive ROMs that ran in the background ALL the time monitoring processes, to limited installs for the people who bought the game.

Origin's EULA doesn't seem particularly different from Valve's (aside from Origin's stating they use personal information for internal marketing purposes). What will make or break Origin is EA's use of the information and how nice Origin will play with the rest of your PC.

For the most part, Steam plays well with your PC, and Valve's use of my info hasn't directed any marketing towards me.

[lltoon]

Carfax wrote...

Raygereio wrote...

The intent with which EA did this doesn't even matter. They could be searching for my birthday so that they can send me flowers on the right date for all I care. They have no business searching through my hard drive without my permission and let's not even start on the legal issues.

And the solution is, don't download or use Origins..  No one is forcing you to use it.

Oh and the difference between EA and Valve in this case is that - as far as I and the entire Internet for that matter know - Steam asks you if you're okay with it  gathering some information from your computer. Heck, the last time Steam did that, it even showed me what information it gathered before I had to give the final okay to send it to Valve.
Origin doesn't ask and Origin searches through files Steam doesn't touch. Big difference.

LOL Steam asks you eh?  This is their privacy policy:

Collection and Use of Information

By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties.

Sounds like asking to me

Another tidbit:

Furthermore, external websites and companies with links to and from Valve's online sites and products may collect personal information about users. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to these external websites and companies. Please refer directly to these companies and websites regarding their privacy policies.

Carfax wrote...
An analogy so false it's absurd: I choose to install that defragger or virus scanner  with full knowledge of what it's going to do: namely scan my hard drive with a benign purpose. In fact doing that are those program's sole purpose, or in the case of the OS critical to it's function.
Again; not so with Origin.

And what proof or evidence do you have that Origins is collecting peoples' information for nefarious rather than benign purposes?

Nothing?  I thought so...  Honestly, you are just a paranoid EA hater, and so is Iltoon.

I like how you never addressed the actual points that are being made and instead redirected the argument again and again because you just can't admit that your argument is flawed.
It's like I'm arguing with a creationist or something. Either you address the actual points like a mature adult, or don't bother posting.

Modifié par lltoon, 06 novembre 2011 - 04:23 .

[Cypher0020]

Wow... I scrolled through all that info in Germany..... what Origins does isn't right. Really what's the point? Glad that German gamers are taking action.

This won't effect me as a 360 player for ME3 will it?

[suprhomre]

 The same reason people fear and hate herpes. You don't invite it you just want some fun and bang it's right in your face. 

[KingDuncan]

twisty77 wrote...

I truly am at a loss as for why so many people are hating on Origin. Maybe as an Xbox gamer and not a PC gamer I don't get it. Why are so many people disconcerted at the though of ME3 being required to have Origin?

According to the two links below your post, Origin records your online activity (to make sure you're not a pirate) which is what illegal Spyware does.

Origin is like that fat kid with bad balance trying to get revenge on those that make fun of his fatness (pirates) by sneaking up on them but ends up tripping over himself & flattening the school midget (honest customers). True story dat.

[SandTrout]

Origin doesn't work; it's as simple as that.

The privacy stuff is the frosting on the cake.

The "if you don't have anything to hide" argument is complete bunk for these reasons. Even if you have not commited any crime doesn't meant that you don't have things on your computer that are either embarrassing or can be construed as implicit illegal activity.

[snfonseka]

I think OP is kind of trolling. Because if he/ she really needs to know why people think Origin as a bad thing, all he/ she has to do is use google. It is that easy.

[KingDuncan]

snfonseka wrote...

I think OP is kind of trolling. Because if he/ she really needs to know why people think Origin as a bad thing, all he/ she has to do is use google. It is that easy.

So? It's an opportunity to prove how smart we are by pointing out Origin's flaws.

[Belisarius09]

Carfax wrote...


And what proof or evidence do you have that Origins is collecting peoples' information for nefarious rather than benign purposes?

Nothing?  I thought so...  Honestly, you are just a paranoid EA hater, and so is Iltoon.

even if it is just for benign purposes it is still wrong. its a violation of privacy rights.

[Lumikki]

Not sure what to say. Some people just doesn't get it, because they values of life is different.

Giving up you privacy to ANYONE is not smart choise. Every action has consequences and some people just can't see beoynd this moments situation, as not seeing in to future as what you action may cause to happen. Little like robing liquor store may give you alcohol, but what happens later may be consequences of that action. Giving up you privacy has also consequences, it's changing how the companies see our value of privacy, like it's for sale, because some many people doesn't seem to care. I ques way too many consumers are just stupid or ignorance.

We are fighting for our basic rights. Companies doing illegal action agaist consumers, isn't any better than consumers doing piracy. Defending you own rights, doesn't mean you can break someones else rights.

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 novembre 2011 - 05:52 .

[SandTrout]

Lumikki wrote...

We are fighting for our basic rights. Companies doing illegal action agaist consumers, isn't any better than consumers doing piracy. Making profit is not excuse for doing crime.

Very true, though I somewhat disagree with how 'illegal' the system monitoring in Origin is, considering that no one is forced to use the products.

The best route we can go to influence this is to not use origin or purchase any products through it.

[jeweledleah]

SandTrout wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

We are fighting for our basic rights. Companies doing illegal action agaist consumers, isn't any better than consumers doing piracy. Making profit is not excuse for doing crime.

Very true, though I somewhat disagree with how 'illegal' the system monitoring in Origin is, considering that no one is forced to use the products.

The best route we can go to influence this is to not use origin or purchase any products through it.

unless - bioware will force you to use Origin software in order to be able to play the game.  As in - don't want to install it?  you don't get to use your hardcopy game, not even single player.  but Steam, you say?  Steam doesn't record nearly as much information as origin is giving itself permission to and steam has an offline mode.  and still, when I heard that Shogun, I think it was - required for people to have steam installed even if they bought hardcopy, I kinda went "HEY" and I like steam.

voting with your wallet does seem to work.  but it also requires for people to say - you know what?  even though I've been a fan of the games for years, played both ME1 and ME2 multiple times, I think I'm just going to skip out on a third and final game, and not even think of collector's edition.  some can do it.  others cannot.

[Kail Ashton]

lol people react to this the same way cavemen first reacted to fire, first it's scarey! then you use it more and that peanut brittle you call a brain realizes if you don't stick your head in it (or in modern terms pirate games) you've nothing to fear

Modifié par Kail Ashton, 06 novembre 2011 - 05:51 .

[Kasai666]

Because it's apparently spyware. HOWEVER, you can choose to opt out of that part at any time.

[ArkkAngel007]

I haven't gone through the whole thread in very much detail, but everyone realizes EA updated the EULA, right? That they make it clear that they won't sell any of your information, and that the scanning is just for the operation of Origin and it's games?

And if I remember correctly, when Steam started up, it was a piece of crap. Didn't cooperate with the computer, ate up quite a bit of RAM...basically what Origin is going through.

Origin works well enough. It does need to be touched up, but as a downloading service and game launcher, it does work. It's not going to be on the level of Steam in community quality, not for a while anyways if it ever is. The only really big issue I have is the support service, which really is a nightmare, but most support services are.

But the community in this industry has to really start growing up and start being more objective rather than jumping on every little thing like Sarah Palin and Tea-Partyers. Sorry I have to compare all of us to politic b.s., but it's the truth.

And we don't have "basic rights". Companies screw consumers over all the time. Look at what we pay for games and some consoles? To where we pay up to 200% mark up at times. That seems a bigger concern then a new up-and-starting download service that is trying to rectify its faults.