170 réponses à ce sujet

[hoorayforicecream]

Zjarcal wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Also, aside from the whole system scanning malarkey, let's be honest, shall we? EA don't have the best track record with maintaining their online services a few years down the line. I can't say I'm rolling in optimism that Origin support for various games won't be pulled after a couple of years either. Trust has to be earned.

This is really my only issue with Origin as of now. I was annoyed at it at first but then after I tried it a bit, it didn't seem bad at all. The whole "EA spying on me" thing doesn't bother me in the slightest anymore to be honest, but the issue of EA maintaining the service running in the long run does concern me.

Speaking of security, I'm reminded of how (back in 2003) Valve had their own security breached and had all of the half-life 2 sourcecode stolen. We've seen PSN get breached, Microsoft get breached, Valve get breached, EA get breached, and plenty of others. I can understand not wanting to put your trust in a company that doesn't have great security, but on the flipside, then you're pretty much going to have to lock yourself out of certain games from most publishers.

[lltoon]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

I haven't gone through the whole thread in very much detail, but everyone realizes EA updated the EULA, right? That they make it clear that they won't sell any of your information, and that the scanning is just for the operation of Origin and it's games?

http://www.geek.com/...suits-20110926/

"A couple of weeks ago Sony updated the Terms of Service (ToS) for the PlayStation Network so as to block anyone suing them by making you agree to resolve problems with a “neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.” The ToS also stipulated class action lawsuits aren’t allowed as you have to resolve a dispute independently."

"By implementing this change, EA  has effectively stopped any lawsuits that involve big money payouts. If  Origin suffers the same fate as the PSN hack, you won’t be able to make a claim against the company because you signed this agreement. All you can do is complain, and EA has the choice of whether to listen or not."

If Origin can't be responsible for my information even if they aren't selling it, then I don't see any reason why I should let them take my information. Whoops, we've accidently lost your personal details and it's now floating around in the wrong hands! Sucks to be you, but you can't hold us liable even though we forcibly scanned your PC.

ArkkAngel007 wrote...
And we don't have "basic rights". Companies screw consumers over all the time. Look at what we pay for games and some consoles? To where we pay up to 200% mark up at times. That seems a bigger concern then a new up-and-starting download service that is trying to rectify its faults.

You're part of the problem of why consumers always gets screwed over. In fact, you're part of the problem why the banking system in general has screwed us over. Every time the banking system screws over the consumer a little bit, you let it slide until the entire system collapsed under it's own weight.

Modifié par lltoon, 06 novembre 2011 - 07:43 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Speaking of security, I'm reminded of how (back in 2003) Valve had their own security breached and had all of the half-life 2 sourcecode stolen. We've seen PSN get breached, Microsoft get breached, Valve get breached, EA get breached, and plenty of others. I can understand not wanting to put your trust in a company that doesn't have great security, but on the flipside, then you're pretty much going to have to lock yourself out of certain games from most publishers.

Or you can just crack games you own, that works too.
Besides, it always makes me laugh (or cry...) how much ressources they use to annoy honest customers when in the same times numerous games just prooved they could sell well without being protected (some even don't have DRM...).

[lltoon]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Speaking of security, I'm reminded of how (back in 2003) Valve had their own security breached and had all of the half-life 2 sourcecode stolen. We've seen PSN get breached, Microsoft get breached, Valve get breached, EA get breached, and plenty of others. I can understand not wanting to put your trust in a company that doesn't have great security, but on the flipside, then you're pretty much going to have to lock yourself out of certain games from most publishers.

Or you can just crack games you own, that works too.
Besides, it always makes me laugh (or cry...) how much ressources they use to annoy honest customers when in the same times numerous games just prooved they could sell well without being protected (some even don't have DRM...).

Yeah, that's what I've decided to do when I get ME3. Unfortunately cracking a game technically becomes piracy even though you own the legit game. Then the Origin fanboys will come in crying calling you a pirate and this is the reason why Origin is necessary. It's ridiculous reasoning that I can only imagine coming from someone with a brain of a 12 year old.

[Raygereio]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
I can understand not wanting to put your trust in a company that doesn't have great security, but on the flipside, then you're pretty much going to have to lock yourself out of certain games from most publishers.

Or companies can stop putting DRM on their games since it's useless anyway and only is a bother to the legal consumer and can stop gathering information which they don't need to provide their services to me.

I know, I know. I want companies to start behaving with commons sense. Inconcievable. But it's a dream I have.

lltoon wrote...
Unfortunately cracking a game technically becomes piracy even though you own the legit game.

Boy am I glad I live in the Netherlands. What's that EA? Your EULA says I can't make a copy of my ME2 discs, nor am I allowed to modify it in anyway?
Though; the laws says I can. Now get of my lawn, dammit!

ArkkAngel007 wrote...
I haven't gone through the whole thread in very much detail, but everyone realizes EA updated the EULA, right? That they make it clear that they won't sell any of your information, and that the scanning is just for the operation of Origin and it's games?

For starters that update EULA isn't excactly promising, nor are any of the statements. But here's something important: there's no concievable reason why the scanning is necesary. That's akin to a supermarket saying you getting punched in the nuts necesary for a store to function. There's simply no reason for Origin to exhibit this behaviour in it's DRM / Digitial Distribution function. Nor is there any reason for it to do this to handle updates, facilitate multiplayer or combat cheating in said multiplayer.
Frankly the only concievable reason for Origin to do this, is if the program wants to know what's on your hard drive and the only concievable reason for the program to want to know that is if there's a someone out there interested in that information. Simple logic.

Modifié par Raygereio, 06 novembre 2011 - 08:09 .

[Mister Mida]

Raygereio wrote...

Boy am I glad I live in the Netherlands. What's that EA? Your EULA says I can't make a copy of my ME2 discs, nor am I allowed to modify it in anyway?
Though; the laws says I can. Now get of my lawn, dammit!

I'm no expert on law but are we the only ones who can do this or something?

[Carfax]

Raygereio wrote...

Yes and no.
Yes in the sence that no one is pointing a gun at my head to buy EA's games. But if Origin turns out to be ME3's DRM then EA is forcing me to use it in order to play the game in a legal manner and do mind that Origin is in no way necesary for ME3 to function.

As far as I know, Origins won't be required to play ME3.  The only game that requires Origins is BF3, and thats mostly online..

Regardless, Valve games like Portal require Steam, so what do you have to say concerning that?

Carfax wrote...
Do you have evidence to the contrary? Don't quote the EULA: provide proof. Because if Valve actually did that - unless they're the world sneakiest programmers - it would have been long since discovered and documented on the Internet.
Provide proof, or it's just a baseless accusation comming from you.

You don't have much of an appreciation for irony do you?  Because I was asking you the same question concerning Origins, and now here you are asking me about Steam.

The truth is, I seriously doubt either company would do something as stupid as selling or abusing the personal information of gamers.  Doing something like that would completely ruin either company if they were caught.

At any rate, the point is that Steam's privacy policy allows them to do the same thing you're accusing Origins of doing.....without any evidence or proof I might add.

Read my post. That tends to help if you want to form a coherent reply. I said intent doesn't matter. The very principle if it is simply wrong.

And now we're back to square one, because while I've demonstrated that Steam's privacy policy gives them a lot of leeway regarding the collection and use of information gleaned from the computers of gamers that use Steam (much like EA's Origins), neither of us have any evidence or proof that either Valve or EA have commited any wrong doing in that respect.

And you're apparent an EA fanboy. Your point is? I have actually nothing against EA in particular (heck, if you'd have bothered to do a quick search instead of being lazy and trying to score points with that one-liner you can find posts from me on this board where I've defended EA).
I have a problem with stupidity and you'd have to be pretty darn detached fron reality to not agree that it  is an offense to common sense for a company to deliberatly make the illegal version of their game the superior one.

I'm not an EA fan boy.  I've had issues with EA before, which forced me to end up pirating some of their stuff...

At any rate, my point was that you can't have one set of standards for Origins, and another for Steam.  Both Steam and Origins attempt to perform the same task, which is to act as a digital distribution point, DRM solution, and online communication network for games and gamers..........and both of them go about doing it the same way more or less.

I'm actually in favor of software like Steam and Origins, because they are a good compromise for gamers and developers alike.  It's the future of gaming whether you like it or not.

Modifié par Carfax, 06 novembre 2011 - 09:10 .

[twisty77]

I want to thank everyone for their passionate, explanatory responses. I admit that I had a poor understanding of what Origin did to a consumer's PC, but now I understand.

Just a side note, how does what Origin does not infringe on any privacy laws in the United States? I understand that you agree in the License Agreement when installing Origin to not sure EA over what they collect, but could someone else who hasn't installed Origin sue on the basis of privacy violation?

[Gabey5]

are people unaware of google?

yeesh

[jeweledleah]

Kasai666 wrote...

Because it's apparently spyware. HOWEVER, you can choose to opt out of that part at any time.

not according to the EULA that I've read.  the only opt out they offer is uninstalling the program.  and if runing of siad program in a background is required to play a game?  yeah..

and as far as I remember, the wording is STILl vague enough to give them an out in case they do in fact scan all of your computer and internet usage, not just that related to the EA games that you play.

[Mister Mida]

Carfax wrote...

I'm actually in favor of software like Steam and Origins, because they are a good compromise for gamers and developers alike.  It's the future of gaming whether you like it or not.

Yes, great compromise indeed.

'Permission to play the game that I bought with my hard earned money, sir!'

[StarcloudSWG]

Because it examines parts of the registry and parts of your disk that it doesn't need access to, and then sends all that data to Electronic Arts.

[Blakes 7]

Theres GFWL, then there is origin, all unnecessary bloatware that annoys you because you have to go through it every time. Even steam games still have GFWL wrappers attached, probably if origin games sell on steam you will still have to go through origin, that gets real annoying, real fast. More than tempted to skip origin games, probably will just avoid them altogether, bioware games included.

[Raygereio]

Carfax wrote...
As far as I know, Origins won't be required to play ME3.  The only game that requires Origins is BF3, and thats mostly online..
Regardless, Valve games like Portal require Steam, so what do you have to say concerning that?

True; BF3 is the first of game equiped with Origin DRM. Doesn't mean it won't be the last. EA has invested a lot of resources into Origin, do you think they'll just drop it?

As for Steam. First up I have the crack for every single game I own via Steam. Because why the hell not. But Steam does not scan my hard drive, unlike Origin.
That and Steam has over the last few years proven to be a stable platform. Stable in the sense that Valve isn't very likely to drop it. Heck, it's so succesfull that even if Valve happened to go under, I'm willing to put good money down any Steam being taken over by another company. Heck, it could even exist on it's own. That's why I'm okay with Steam today (I was not when it was first released and looked at it with a squinty eye for several years).

Carfax wrote...
You don't have much of an appreciation for irony do you?  Because I was asking you the same question concerning Origins, and now here you are asking me about Steam.

No, you haven't asked me to that. Nor have I made any accusation towards Origin that aren't backed up by evidence. Origin does scan your hard drive. There's no such evidence for Steam.
Sure, there's no evidence that Origin sends any information back to EA and that EA is using it for nefarious purposes, but then I've never said that. I just say that:
"Frankly the only concievable reason for Origin to do this, is if the program wants to know what's on your hard drive and the only concievable reason for the program to want to know that is if there's a someone out there interested in that information."

Carfax wrote...
The truth is, I seriously doubt either company would do something as stupid as selling or abusing the personal information of gamers.  Doing something like that would completely ruin either company if they were caught.

And yet there are plenty of examples where a company did something illegal just because they though they'd get away with it.

Carfax wrote...
At any rate, my point was that you can't have one set of standards for Origins, and another for Steam.  Both Steam and Origins attempt to perform the same task, which is to act as a digital distribution point, DRM solution, and online communication network for games and gamers..........and both of them go about doing it the same way more or less.

More or less being the operative term here. Again: Origin does things Steam does not. Said things being rather naughty and in no way necessary for it's function as DRM, digitial distrubution or fascilitating multiplayer.

Carfax wrote...
I'm actually in favor of software like Steam and Origins, because they are a good compromise for gamers and developers alike.  It's the future of gaming whether you like it or not.

We agree on something! Woohoo! As miuch as I despise the very concept of DRM (treating the customer as a potential criminal == dumb), a platform such a Steam shows promise. It functions well as a store and the DRM - for me at least - while still offensive in principle, isn't much of a hassle.
If Origin did not do things that are completely unnecesary for it's function towards me - the consumer - and worked well in general (last time I checked the program out it was the old EA download manager with a new skin and was still incredibly buggy and resource hungry) I would be really okay with it. Steam has proven itself but it has gotten to the point where it has practically a monopoly on digital distribution. I'm a firm believer in competition and so far any potential competition for Steam was/is a joke.

Modifié par Raygereio, 06 novembre 2011 - 09:57 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

twisty77 wrote...
Just a side note, how does what Origin does not infringe on any privacy laws in the United States? I understand that you agree in the License Agreement when installing Origin to not sure EA over what they collect, but could someone else who hasn't installed Origin sue on the basis of privacy violation?

Perhaps in the USA you can choose to give up some of your rights by signing a contrat?

[Complistic]

because I already have steam and don't want to spread my games around
it's fragmenting the pc community
It's EA, and I hate EA
It doesn't work well
it's spyware

and above all, EA won't put their stuff on steam anymore because it's trying to compete with steam

[Abirn]

Just sandbox it, EA can scan my computer all it wants, They aren't going to find anything other than a blank computer with Origin and ME3 on it.

[Soul Cool]

Complistic wrote...
It doesn't work well

This is my reason for not liking Origin. Seriously, EA. You brag about how much money you're throwing around with games like TOR. Spend some money on your distribution service to make sure it works well.

And stop doing redudnant things like Origin/Battlelog combos. It is annoying.

[anzolino]

Carfax wrote...
As far as I know, Origins won't be required to play ME3. The only game that requires Origins is BF3, and thats mostly online..

WRONG!

If you want to take a look: EA product EULAs - scroll down to Mass Effect 3

...INTERNET CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) AND REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SINGLE-USE SERIAL CODE(S) REQUIRED TO PLAY, ACCESS BONUS CONTENT (IF ANY) AND ACCESS ONLINE SERVICES....

You also see the FIFA games etc.? Every new game requires Origin now.

[ArkkAngel007]

lltoon wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

I haven't gone through the whole thread in very much detail, but everyone realizes EA updated the EULA, right? That they make it clear that they won't sell any of your information, and that the scanning is just for the operation of Origin and it's games?

http://www.geek.com/...suits-20110926/

"A couple of weeks ago Sony updated the Terms of Service (ToS) for the PlayStation Network so as to block anyone suing them by making you agree to resolve problems with a “neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.” The ToS also stipulated class action lawsuits aren’t allowed as you have to resolve a dispute independently."

"By implementing this change, EA  has effectively stopped any lawsuits that involve big money payouts. If  Origin suffers the same fate as the PSN hack, you won’t be able to make a claim against the company because you signed this agreement. All you can do is complain, and EA has the choice of whether to listen or not."

If Origin can't be responsible for my information even if they aren't selling it, then I don't see any reason why I should let them take my information. Whoops, we've accidently lost your personal details and it's now floating around in the wrong hands! Sucks to be you, but you can't hold us liable even though we forcibly scanned your PC.

ArkkAngel007 wrote...
And we don't have "basic rights". Companies screw consumers over all the time. Look at what we pay for games and some consoles? To where we pay up to 200% mark up at times. That seems a bigger concern then a new up-and-starting download service that is trying to rectify its faults.

You're part of the problem of why consumers always gets screwed over. In fact, you're part of the problem why the banking system in general has screwed us over. Every time the banking system screws over the consumer a little bit, you let it slide until the entire system collapsed under it's own weight.

That's a hack, not the selling of personal information.  You can sue if EA sells your personal information.  If you actually read, you'd understand the difference of the two situations.  Also, if you make purchases with credit information and register in their service, you run the same risk you do when submitting information to Amazon, Steam, Xbox Live, PSN, etc.  Origin does not forcibly scan your computer beyond anything revolving Origin and associated products.  This may mean basic drive info, game files, and other similar aspects, but it does not go through anything else.  That's just fear mongering assumptions that have gone way out of control.

And if you actually read my posts, you'd know that I don't like the state of this industry and how they are taking advantage of us.  My point was that this Origin debacle is nothing compared to what else is going on in the industry.  People need to do some actual objective research, rather than jumping on the band wagon of hate.

And you obviously have no knowlege of the sitiuation with Wall Street and the banking system.  And if you want your argument heard, I wouldn't point fingers, considering you were a part of the banking issue too more than likely, just like every other American and European in the world.  Not the individuals fault but the system.

[Euteras]

lltoon wrote...


Now I sometimes use my PC for *gasp* work. Where I type letters to my medical colleagues concerning patients and more. Those letters of which I send by email or my normal mail after printing.
It's incredibly lucrative for EA to be scanning these files and gathering information, especially when they can sell this information to the likes of insurance companies or any other interested parties to make a profit. The only person that loses here is the patient and their medical records.

or whoever gets sued for violating the patients privacy.

[NegativelyChrgd]

"We really won't know how bad Origin is until we actually try it.... I mean eventually developers from all over will adopt DRM malware apps, right? What's the use in fighting?"

Origin is controlling them through the updates! Turning them into obedient advocates! Resist the indoctrination! Ruuuuuuuuuuuunnnn!

Love how the story of ME parallels this whole Origin/DRM fiasco.

[Andy379]

I don't see a problem with it.

So what if a big company gets your private information? In no way will this ever be relevant to your life ever again. Does it physically hurt you? Are you afraid of being singled out?

Fox New broadcast: This just in from the latest Origin scans, xXDigitalPh33rXx downloaded a whooping 873gb of pornographic material. Sets a new record...

Sorry I had to be the one to tell you but your not that special.
Your information, along with everyone else's is going to be put into a chart.
And what ever becomes of that chart will do you no harm. =D

If anything should be argued against it's the amount of system resources the thing takes up.