22 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

From the moment they told me in Denerim that he had been deliberately expunged from the Chant of Light, I wanted to know more about Shartan.  I felt there had to be more than that one line that had been removed.  Perhaps a whole section about the mistreatment of the elves.    Then in the Gauntlet, there he was with the engimatic phrase "the enemy of my enemy was my friend", suggesting that perhaps he wasn't a wholehearted supporter of the faith of Andraste, but simply their common goal.  And "she was betrayed and so were we".  That definitely references what the Chantry and Orlais did in the Dales because Maferath didn't betray his elven allies and gave them the Dales as promised.

Then in DA2 we have a book, allegedly by Shartan, called "A Slave's Life".   So was this really by him or one of his followers, or a later book by a freed elven slave who took the pen name of Shartan.   In fact is his name so revered that elves would not dream of calling their child after him? Or did the Chantry forbid this?  What was the copy doing discarded in the alienage?  

I normally play elves so I naturally would like to know more but I also think that knowing what sort of relationship he had with Andraste would actually be very insightful as to what she originally intended by her teaching, as opposed to what the Chantry has done with it. 

For example, whilst the Dalish elves have a health respect for magic, mages live quite normally as part of the clan, can marry and have children, and it would seem that the Keeper has to be a mage.   They claim to be keeping alive their traditions from the time of the occupation of the Dales, if not before.   This would suggest that even if Andraste was not herself a mage (as that heretical book suggests), there must have been mages among her allies.  Whilst the specific reference taken out of the Chant relates to elven archers being commanded by Shartan, his own specialism is not mentioned - what if he was an arcane warrior?  Was it really the freedom that elf mages in the Dales enjoyed that the missionaries of the Chantry really objected to?

So anyone else feel the same way about Shartan, or know where more information can be found?

[esper]

I want to learn more about what happened in the Andraste-Tevinter war generally. We have so many myths and so many things left out off or altered to the chant of light that I feel that we just don't understand what really happened.

As for Shartan. I doubt he believed in the Maker which must have put some strain on following Andraste.

[Knight of Dane]

Anything increasing the lore would be great, personally i am more interested in the old Empires altogether, The Dwarven, Arlathan and the appearing humans.

[Gervaise]

I suppose I'm particularly interested in finding out the truth about Shartan because it isn't just speculation that the Chantry excluded him in view of their subsequent actions in the Dales, a member of the Chantry actually admits that is what they did. I imagined my Dalish Warden chatting with Alistair over the campfire and him saying stuff like a lot of posters do about how the elves must bear some of the blame for what happened and my Dalish elf insisting that the humans had gone against the wishes of Andraste, then we go to the Gauntlet and the spirit of Shartan actually says "we were betrayed". Couldn't imagine there was much arguing about it after that.

Later on in Awakening, when we're looking up at the statue of Andraste and Anders speculates what she would make of it all, I wanted to be able to say, well there was this book I gave to Wynne that says she may have been a mage and while we're about it, have you ever heard of Shartan? He would have backed Anders in his quest for mage freedom, probably even covered for him to let him get away (though a certain short story suggests otherwise).

I am also interested in any ancient lore but so much of what is occurring now in the Thedas world is still being affected by that specific period and it directly impacts on the mage/templar conflict, I would like more information. I also like the idea of a hero of the freedom movement who is an elf.

[Xilizhra]

I also like the idea of a hero of the freedom movement who is an elf.

That could be Merrill.

[Knight of Dane]

Unfortunately Merrill can be dead.

But we have witnessed the Makers resurrection powers before, so i suppose everything's possible.

[Xilizhra]

Well, so far... Liara's always alive and so is Leliana. The Maker seems to watch out for my girlfriends.

[Knight of Dane]

I'm looking forward to the makers explanation on how Merrill survived in evul people's playthroughs then

[Gervaise]

Just been watching a You Tube of Lelianna telling the story of Shartan and she actually says that she doesn't know whether to believe the Chantry's assertion that the Dalish struck first. When you talk to her about her vision, she says that the Chantry say the Maker is gone but she doesn't believe it and that he is there in nature. Makes me wonder what happened to her after Origins that she could seem so unorthodox in her beliefs and yet end up as the Divine's Left Hand and a Seeker?

[General User]

Perhaps the Divine values ability over orthodoxy.

[Lenimph]

Gervaise wrote...

 Makes me wonder what happened to her after Origins that she could seem so unorthodox in her beliefs and yet end up as the Divine's Left Hand and a Seeker?

It's more like what happened before Origins that made her Divine's left hand.  If the current Divine wasn't Dorothea from Leliana's song I would also wonder why that was the case, but she is and Leliana has a common history (and a very colorful one) with her. 

Dorothea being the Divine makes me wonder if her colorful past makes this Divine is less orthodox then previous Divines.  Certainly hiring Leliana seems to reflect that imo.

[jlb524]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Unfortunately Merrill can be dead.

But we have witnessed the Makers resurrection powers before, so i suppose everything's possible.

I don't see them doing that again.

[Knight of Dane]

Neither do I, but i am not one to guess at what they do. I hate the word "canon" in rpg's, but in Leliana's and Anders' case they are canon living, even though they are given excuses to why they are alive.

I have never tried to kill Marrill in game, nor do i want to, i couldn't bear it, but the way i hear people say how hard it is for them to make her turn on you i wouldn't be surprised if she too was canonically alive in DA:3.

[ReallyRue]

I'd be interested to learn some more about Shartan, and Garahel for that matter. The elves need to know more about heroic elves in their history. Other than the Hero of Ferelden, of course.

[thats1evildude]

ReallyRue wrote...

I'd be interested to learn some more about Shartan, and Garahel for that matter. The elves need to know more about heroic elves in their history. Other than the Hero of Ferelden, of course.

*Fist bump*

[ReallyRue]

thats1evildude wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

I'd be interested to learn some more about Shartan, and Garahel for that matter. The elves need to know more about heroic elves in their history. Other than the Hero of Ferelden, of course.

*Fist bump*

Yeah!

[Arcadian Legend]

Sure, anyone who owned a sword as kickass as the Glandivallis (sp?) is worth my attention.

[jamesp81]

I do hope they can manage this without using the tired old saw of "the church people are bad". That would be extremely annoying.

[Gervaise]

Wow, I didn't know about Glandivalis but I've just been over to the Wiki to read up about it. It says:
"Shartan was a slave who became a fabled warrior and later a devotee of Andraste herself, and we know this because the Canticle of Shartan spoke of their meeting on the Valarian Fields. Andraste gave him a mystic blade that he called Glandivalis (translation unknown) and he even fought at Maferath's side".

Then the stats says that there is a 2.5% chance of enslaving a normal enemy using the sword on them. Now so far as I am aware the only sort of magic that allows you to enslave another's mind is blood magic, so how was this sword created and how did Andraste get hold of it?

May be it is not just Shartan that is an embarrassment to the Chantry but also the sword that Andraste gave him.

[esper]

Gervaise wrote...

Wow, I didn't know about Glandivalis but I've just been over to the Wiki to read up about it. It says:
"Shartan was a slave who became a fabled warrior and later a devotee of Andraste herself, and we know this because the Canticle of Shartan spoke of their meeting on the Valarian Fields. Andraste gave him a mystic blade that he called Glandivalis (translation unknown) and he even fought at Maferath's side".

Then the stats says that there is a 2.5% chance of enslaving a normal enemy using the sword on them. Now so far as I am aware the only sort of magic that allows you to enslave another's mind is blood magic, so how was this sword created and how did Andraste get hold of it?

May be it is not just Shartan that is an embarrassment to the Chantry but also the sword that Andraste gave him.

Okay, that's it. Andraste is now offically a blood mage.

[TEWR]

Gervaise wrote...

Wow, I didn't know about Glandivalis but I've just been over to the Wiki to read up about it. It says:
"Shartan was a slave who became a fabled warrior and later a devotee of Andraste herself, and we know this because the Canticle of Shartan spoke of their meeting on the Valarian Fields. Andraste gave him a mystic blade that he called Glandivalis (translation unknown) and he even fought at Maferath's side".

Then the stats says that there is a 2.5% chance of enslaving a normal enemy using the sword on them. Now so far as I am aware the only sort of magic that allows you to enslave another's mind is blood magic, so how was this sword created and how did Andraste get hold of it?

May be it is not just Shartan that is an embarrassment to the Chantry but also the sword that Andraste gave him.

I knew it. She's definitely a blood mage. What better way to bring the Imperium down then by using the very magical weapon they use? The irony of a Mage Andraste bringing down the Imperium is something I've loved ever since I entertained that theory.

So... is she a Somniari blood mage? Or better yet, the Dumat -- or Razikale if Dumat wasn't actually the Archdemon of the first Blight -- OGB who happens to be a Somniari blood mage, and is also Flemeth?

I think so.

[Gervaise]

And all this was revealed thanks to Sister Petrine, who seems to be making very good use of Chantry archives. She states at the end of the codex entry, that people like Shartan are gradually being consigned to fable but some of us know the truth. May be she and Genitivi are the Muldar and Scully of Thedas, working within the very organisation that seeks to supress what really happened.
"The truth is out there!"

[Gervaise]

Just found another strange quote from the scrolls quest that led to the finding of the sword. Think it relates to the seal used to shut in the demon.

"A large metal remnant, by shape it is one of three. If brought together they would form an intricate Andrastian design. So it is Of the Lady, but strangely ringed with heretical elven symbols that predate the Old Gods. There is no wear, so it is impossible to tell when it was made. It thrums with a cold energy, and the air around it tastes of iron. This was the anchor that held its resting place secure."

So there would appear to be some sort of connection between Andraste and Arlathan.

I have never done the complete quest, owing to being a bit lazy and would have had to have traipsed back to Sundermount where we were not exactly flavour of the month after the death of the Keeper - it seemed just a little side quest . That'll teach me. Always do all the quests, you never know what's gems of lore you will turn up.