83 réponses à ce sujet

[alzemu]

Time to jump onto war on Morinth/Samara.

Also, possible =SPOILER=

1)Morinth isn't innocent misunderstood character. She is a cold murderer who is indeed addicted to killing and taking powers. She doesn't hide it either with statements such as 'So strong, I need this.' etc when regarding strong paragon/renegade Shepard. Her background is quite unfortunate, yes, is she right for wanting to run away from eternal seclusion, yes, but does she have right to knowingly kill others by bonding with them? No.

2)Samara is lot more complex than what you might think at first if you take the time to talk to her and get to know her. I didn't like her at first either but after lot of talking, I found out she does indeed feel guilty for her actions. (such as when she states curiosity is dangerous in that if you find out the criminal you are about to kill is a devoted father, blah blah.)
To be fair, Samara wasn't really all powerful authority figure before she became a justicar. She was just another asari mother who just happen to have quite strong biotics. I don't think she was a bad mother mostly because if you played LotSB and read her dossier, her conversation with other daughters tell you a bit of her situation before whole justicar thing.

If you save Samara and talk to her after the mission, she will state she is actually proud of her daughter, stating what Shep thinks she would feel if she had to kill the smartest and bravest daughter she had.

I think both Morinth and Samara are tragic characters in their own way and painting them black and white isn't giving them their due credit.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

People that had nothing to do with her seclusion but suffered because of Morinth anyway. Nef, brainwashed village, other known or unknown murdered people, things like that.

But you know that I don't believe Nef to be innocent and I believe that village was thrown at Samara in selfdeffence. 

And this is why the "blindly deflect blame towards innocent parties" comment was made.

Oh, come on. The fact that you believe that Nef is innocent has no more weight than the fact that i believe that she isn't.

[D.Kain]

alzemu wrote...

Time to jump onto war on Morinth/Samara.

Also, possible =SPOILER=

1)Morinth isn't innocent misunderstood character. She is a cold murderer who is indeed addicted to killing and taking powers. She doesn't hide it either with statements such as 'So strong, I need this.' etc when regarding strong paragon/renegade Shepard. Her background is quite unfortunate, yes, is she right for wanting to run away from eternal seclusion, yes, but does she have right to knowingly kill others by bonding with them? No.

2)Samara is lot more complex than what you might think at first if you take the time to talk to her and get to know her. I didn't like her at first either but after lot of talking, I found out she does indeed feel guilty for her actions. (such as when she states curiosity is dangerous in that if you find out the criminal you are about to kill is a devoted father, blah blah.)
To be fair, Samara wasn't really all powerful authority figure before she became a justicar. She was just another asari mother who just happen to have quite strong biotics. I don't think she was a bad mother mostly because if you played LotSB and read her dossier, her conversation with other daughters tell you a bit of her situation before whole justicar thing.

If you save Samara and talk to her after the mission, she will state she is actually proud of her daughter, stating what Shep thinks she would feel if she had to kill the smartest and bravest daughter she had.

I think both Morinth and Samara are tragic characters in their own way and painting them black and white isn't giving them their due credit.

1) No, Morinth was taking power for a reason, not just for selfish pleasure. It's not even baseless assumptions anymore, not after the leak, though ofcourse it's still not crystal clear either. Her line that you quoted doesn't bother me at all. Good people don't hangout in Omega VIp clubs.

2) About Samara, the more I got into her character the more I disliked her. I'm not saying she is a stupid, boring character, she is well written. But her motivations are clear, not complex at all, there is more emotion that complexity to Samara. And I also dislike her character a lot. Don't see a problem with killing her either, probably died being proud for her daughter.

[Amaterasuomikami]

D.Kain wrote...
What if you are killing people that are attacking you because you are attacking, like Samara did?

Samara went to find Morinth. Morinth incited the villagers to attack Samara. Samara killed them because they were attacking her. So, yes that was self-defence.

But Morinth kills usually people who are minding their own business and indeed seduces them before killing them.

[D.Kain]

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
What if you are killing people that are attacking you because you are attacking, like Samara did?

Samara went to find Morinth. Morinth incited the villagers to attack Samara. Samara killed them because they were attacking her. So, yes that was self-defence.

But Morinth kills usually people who are minding their own business and indeed seduces them before killing them.

Half of the crew of ME2 are killing people that are minding their own business, including Samara. When did that become a problem?

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

Taken out of context of the whole situation you could have a point but fortunately I read Nef's diary, talked to her mother, and talked to Samara about Morinth.

I'm not taking anything out of context. Infact when I'm looking at the information, the fact that Ne'f mother deosn't know a lot about her life, doesn't work in Nef's favor, for her being in VIP club.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

So you're making assumptions of a person because they went to have fun at a club? Yeah I can't take you seriously.

1) I make assumptions because Nef doesn't fit the person I had to be to attract Morinth, if you think about her as an innocent. Which lead me to believe that Nef fits that - she was a strong dark person, that just loved her mother.

2) If it was a regular club I wouldn't make such assumptions, but it was a VIP club that required password from Aria, which a not very outgoing girl got how? Again means that she was in the middle of things on Omega. Art could just be a hobby.

3) Her Mother doesn't really know her life, nor does Samara.

4) In the diary she is completely brainwhashed by Morinth, it is not Nef anymore, but a Morinth worshiper, I don't take the person in the diary as ''Nef''. 

[PorcelynDoll]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

So you're making assumptions of a person because they went to have fun at a club? Yeah I can't take you seriously.

2) If it was a regular club I wouldn't make such assumptions, but it was a VIP club that required password from Aria, which a not very outgoing girl got how? Again means that she was in the middle of things on Omega. Art could just be a hobby.

So Shepard got his password from Aria? Yeah...no. It's a regular club with a VIP section.

Well you have to tell the gaurd Jarrut sent you to get in.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

So Shepard got his password from Aria? Yeah...no. It's a regular club with a VIP section.

What was Nef doing in a passworded section if she doesn't go out much? She didn't get the password from Morinth she met Morinth inside for the first time.

Even I didn't go to the VIP sections in REAL night clubs, that was kinda asking for truble if everybody deosn't know you, and I am a fairly going out person.

Modifié par D.Kain, 07 novembre 2011 - 10:42 .

[DarthCaine]

Except for Liara (who can't die in previous games), NONE of our previous squad mates are permanent, but all of them appear. BioWare was extra lazy with consequences of your actions

[Amaterasuomikami]

D.Kain wrote...

Half of the crew of ME2 are killing people that are minding their own business, including Samara.

Shepard is a Spectre (like Special Forces), not a policewoman. And I wouldn't agree that they're killing people "minding their own business", unless you think that extends to trying to blow up a colony with Javelin missiles.

[JeffZero]

DarthCaine wrote...

Except for Liara (who can't die in previous games), NONE of our previous squad mates are permanent, but all of them appear. BioWare was extra lazy with consequences of your actions

This information is erroneous. Nowhere has it been stated that Liara is the only permanent squadmate. A similar "fact" revolving around only the Virmire Survivor being permanent floated around earlier, claiming the leaks as evidence -- it says no such thing for either character.

[nitefyre410]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

She'll be there, especially since one of the devs noted that whether or not you tried to romance her was flagged for import. She's one of my favorites, too, and I hope that she tags along for at least one mission.

EDIT: Well, hello typo.

 


Oh  cheez  this bit of news made my morning... 

[DarthCaine]

JeffZero wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Except for Liara (who can't die in previous games), NONE of our previous squad mates are permanent, but all of them appear. BioWare was extra lazy with consequences of your actions

This information is erroneous. Nowhere has it been stated that Liara is the only permanent squadmate. A similar "fact" revolving around only the Virmire Survivor being permanent floated around earlier, claiming the leaks as evidence -- it says no such thing for either character.

MINOR SPOILERS: (highlight to read)

The leaked files state that VS leaves soon after Earth (appears only in one other mission). All other squad mates like Miranda, Thane, Jack, Samara, Jacob, Wrex, Grunt, Mordin, Kasumi, Zaeed, Legion etc. appear in a cameo or a single mission in which most can die (+ apperiance at the end for some)

With Liara's ammount of involvement in the plot, I'd say she's a squad mate for at least most of the game. I'm unsure about Garrus and Tali as there isn't much info.

END SPOILERS

jreezy wrote...

Yeah Dasher1010 started all that unnecessary spamming of leaked squadmate content. It sounded too outrageous to believe so I'm suprised people actually took it as fact.

I never saw Dasher's post, I just read the spoilers file. And if it sounds outrageous it's probably true, trust me. Even if the script isn't final, there'll be only minor changes. The deus ex machima, the retconned minimal consequences of your choices will all stay the same

Modifié par DarthCaine, 08 novembre 2011 - 01:36 .

[Amaterasuomikami]

Well I'm just glad that I'll see Samara again. Of course I'm not expecting her to be a permanent squadmate, but it would be fun if she was in a mission, much like Liara was in the Shadow Broker DLC for ME2.

Modifié par Amaterasuomikami, 09 novembre 2011 - 09:13 .

[Ticktank]

I'm fine if they replace her with ARIA. I can see her having similar skill sets i.e. the vanguard/adept type. Biotics + assault rifle. Aria's supposed to have commando training I think?

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

Ticktank wrote...

I'm fine if they replace her with ARIA. I can see her having similar skill sets i.e. the vanguard/adept type. Biotics + assault rifle. Aria's supposed to have commando training I think?

I never thought about it before but I definitely wouldn't mind having Aria as a squadmate but it won't happen. Our token Asari is Liara which I have no problem with.

Well Aria is going to be a squadmate for some missions, we've seen the screenshots.