1663 réponses à ce sujet

[Balek-Vriege]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

No they don't.  They just let the player do whatever they want and define it for themselves.

No, wrong. Tenpenny Tower dealt with gray via' the nature of its primary instigators. You have the oppressed and the oppressor but both have good and bad points. The oppressor feels threatened and you discover that feeling is justified. The oppressed feels outcast and misrepresented, and they are, but you also discover they are now blood thirsty. If you try to get both parties to play along one side cruelly murders the other.

The other bit of grey was the Pitt.

You have a slave owner who is trying to rebuild the world. He knows that without slavery nobody would willingly work in this environment. He plans to free the slaves, someday, but that day is uknonwn and meanwhile the slaves are treated brutally. The opposition wants freedom now but they are willing to use an innocent child as a pawn to do this. They also can't promise the same vision as the slave leader was once free they have little reason to stay.

Neither the slave leader or the slave owner are wholly bad or wholly good. Both have understandable goals that can't be reconciled but you can only choose one or the other.

First off my point about Bethesda was poking fun at a lot of the simplistic complaints about Fallout 3 being taken over by them, so I do agree with your pointspartially.


I would say both examples are isolated from the rest of the game (one being a questline and the other being a DLC).  No one can deny the lackeys of the former Paladin (forget his name) were black as black can be.  The only grey area was if you cared about curing the disease (and believed the former BoS leader that his intentions were good)  over wiping the scum off the face of the Earth.

Cerberus is blackish grey.  They do bad and controversial things for what seems to be the right reasons.  The same way the Paladin in the Pitt did:  Doing what he thought needed to be done.  The more debate among the community about Cerberus being evil, good or just controversal usually means they're "grey."

It seems you wanted Cerberus to be something completely different since ME1 though (Secretive Good Guys?).  That can't and couldn't be changed in ME3 regardless.

Edit:  We get a little taste of that in ME2 with Miranda and Jacob and may experience it again if they go rogue.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:16 .

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass, any chance you could still clarify how Cerberus' methods resemble terrorism?

They inflict terror and fear in innocent victims. Like those on the Grissom Academy or the Migrant Fleet, they're actively attacking government military forces and I really don't think anyone is at ease when they're nearby, because stuff usually blow up where they are.

[PsychoWARD23]

SPOILER












Can anyone confirm that Legion, Thane, and Mordin all bite the dust no matter what? And that Shepard needs to make a choice between Liara and the VS?













END SPOILERS

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass, any chance you could still clarify how Cerberus' methods resemble terrorism?

They inflict terror and fear in innocent victims. Like those on the Grissom Academy or the Migrant Fleet, they're actively attacking government military forces and I really don't think anyone is at ease when they're nearby, because stuff usually blow up where they are.

I still fail to see how that constitutes terrorism.

[Quole]

Modifié par Quole, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:24 .

[KingDan97]

I just thought of an experiment, to end all debates of whether this is mostly out of date, or mostly still in effect.

We get the final copy of the game, in it's box, then read the plot summary with the knowledge that things have changed since. Therefore, until we open the box and play the game, everything is both out of date and in the game at the same time.

I call it, Schrödinger's Plot

Modifié par KingDan97, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:22 .

[JimiShep]

^ It's a draft... so nothing is confirmed. Just the thought that this could happen YES!

[DiebytheSword]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

SPOILER












Can anyone confirm that Legion, Thane, and Mordin all bite the dust no matter what? And that Shepard needs to make a choice between Liara and the VS?













END SPOILERS

No one can confirm Thane because we have conflicting reports about his activities in ME3. 

Spoiler:
















Legion would be a choice it appears, between allowing the Quarians to kill the geth or allowing the Geth to achieve true AI status.  Mordin does appear to die in the datamine.  VS or Liara also appears to happen, but there are other versions of the same scene where that does not happen, so this is also up in the air.










End spoiler.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass, any chance you could still clarify how Cerberus' methods resemble terrorism?

They inflict terror and fear in innocent victims. Like those on the Grissom Academy or the Migrant Fleet, they're actively attacking government military forces and I really don't think anyone is at ease when they're nearby, because stuff usually blow up where they are.

I still fail to see how that constitutes terrorism.

The actual military definition of terrorism is where a group or person does something with the express purpose of instilling fear. It doesn't matter if there aren't any or many, many casualties. So long as it was done to intimidate or terrify, it is considered terrorism. I don't know if Cerberus intended to create fear of the organization in anything they've done, but they have inspired fear, as evidenced by the quarians with Tali on Freedom's Progress. It's debatable whether they actually fit the definition of "terrorists," but enough people have been scared that they view them as terrorists.

That help?

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:24 .

[Someone With Mass]

DiebytheSword wrote...

I think there are other sides to the story, since those deaths are coming out of nowhere.

Like Legion. He just decides that he must sacrifice himself out of the blue.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:32 .

[PsychoWARD23]

Just a simple yes or no.

[DoNotIngest]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

Shepard kills Dumbledore.

Draco kills Tali

Someone, write this fanfic.

Oh, please. Tali has a shotgun. And Draco couldn't even manage to kill a defenceless old man. If they had a fight, it would end with Draco's brains splattered against the wall.

Now, Hagrid in a barehand fight with Wrex; that'd be something.

I'm sure Cheez would support this. If it was topless.




Seriously, somebody write this. And I wanna see Samara VS Voldemort.

[Balek-Vriege]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass, any chance you could still clarify how Cerberus' methods resemble terrorism?

They inflict terror and fear in innocent victims. Like those on the Grissom Academy or the Migrant Fleet, they're actively attacking government military forces and I really don't think anyone is at ease when they're nearby, because stuff usually blow up where they are.

I still fail to see how that constitutes terrorism.

It's not really terrorism if you ask me.  Sounds more like merciless guerilla warfare.  Terrorism is about commiting politically charged violent acts to cause terror and fear, forcing a government or group to change it's ways.  Cerberus would have to be aiming for some political victory for it to be terrorism.

Guerilla warfare makes more sense since Cerberus is trying to achieve military/personal victories by destabilizing Galactic forces through chaos, while gaining the "trust" of the Reapers.  This scenario buys TIM the most time to do what he thinks needs to be done (whatever that is).

[DiebytheSword]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

No one can confirm Thane because we have conflicting reports about his activities in ME3. 

Spoiler: Legion would be a choice it appears, between allowing the Quarians to kill the geth or allowing the Geth to achieve true AI status.  Mordin does appear to die in the datamine.  VS or Liara also appears to happen, but there are other versions of the same scene where that does not happen, so this is also up in the air.

I think there are other sides to the story, since those deaths are coming out of nowhere.

Like Legion. He just decides that he must sacrifice himself out of the blue.

I was trying to alter the color of my text so people could skip past me, so if you would, please abridge your quote.  I would appreciate it.

I also agree that there is more to this than we can see in the rough draft, there may be ways to avoid certain situations.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:29 .

[SomeKindaEnigma]

KingDan97 wrote...

I just thought of an experiment, to end all debates of whether this is mostly out of date, or mostly still in effect.

We get the final copy of the game, in it's box, then read the plot summary with the knowledge that things have changed since. Therefore, until we open the box and play the game, everything is both out of date and in the game at the same time.

I call it, Schrödinger's Plot

This

[Yuoaman]

KingDan97 wrote...

I just thought of an experiment, to end all debates of whether this is mostly out of date, or mostly still in effect.

We get the final copy of the game, in it's box, then read the plot summary with the knowledge that things have changed since. Therefore, until we open the box and play the game, everything is both out of date and in the game at the same time.

I call it, Schrödinger's Plot

But... but... I don't want to kill a cat.

[PsychoWARD23]

I'm still massively butthurt about this.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

It's not really terrorism if you ask me.  Sounds more like merciless guerilla warfare.  Terrorism is about commiting politically charged violent acts to cause terror and fear, forcing a government or group to change it's ways.  Cerberus would have to be aiming for some political victory for it to be terrorism.

Guerilla warfare makes more sense since Cerberus is trying to achieve military/personal victories by destabilizing Galactic forces through chaos, while gaining the "trust" of the Reapers.  This scenario buys TIM the most time to do what he thinks needs to be done (whatever that is).

Not necessarily. The motivation doesn't have to be political, it just usually is in most examples that we've seen. The sole goal is to inspire fear, usually a sort of message goes along with that, but it doesn't have to be so.

And yes, I would know. The Air Force has taught me these things.

Edit for spelling.

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:33 .

[Xeranx]

 Testing out fonts for spoilers:
This is how you do it.

Modifié par Xeranx, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[AdmiralCheez]

KingDan97 wrote...

I just thought of an experiment, to end all debates of whether this is mostly out of date, or mostly still in effect.

We get the final copy of the game, in it's box, then read the plot summary with the knowledge that things have changed since. Therefore, until we open the box and play the game, everything is both out of date and in the game at the same time.

I call it, Schrödinger's Plot

My mind has been blown.

[DiebytheSword]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

I just thought of an experiment, to end all debates of whether this is mostly out of date, or mostly still in effect.

We get the final copy of the game, in it's box, then read the plot summary with the knowledge that things have changed since. Therefore, until we open the box and play the game, everything is both out of date and in the game at the same time.

I call it, Schrödinger's Plot

My mind has been blown.

Schrödinger's Cheez says your mind is blown and not blown at the same time.  Until we open the box.