1663 réponses à ce sujet

[Tinted]

TrumpetzGuy55 wrote...

I'm sick and tired of this hate being spread because people read an early outline of a story without music, cinematic, or even the whole plot..if I were to read to you the entire ME2 plot without context, without the interaction between characters it would sound silly. but with all of the elements together it is a beautifully crafted game. The experience is what is going to really matter. You guys hate bioware stuff so damn quickly it makes me wonder why you ever signed up for these forums. Stop spreading hate, stop telling lies, and stop blatantly bashing a game that hasn't even been released yet.

You say all of this as if we are not allowed to have complaints. It's human nature to form an opinion of things. You can not stop an opinion from being formed, you can not prevent dreams from being shattered by sub par writing. The context is enough, and it's horrid. Deleviery, that's an entirely different story. I'm sure bioware could deliver this awful story in an amazing way that will distract from the story elements. Presentation counts for a lot, it truly does. Avatar is a great example. It's a story retold hundreds of times of a man going native and abandoning the technologically advanced society to join the native, close to earth society. It was an old story, told again with fantastic presentation.

However, presentation does have its limits. You see, even though Avatar was nice, it was only breathe taking for me my first time in IMAX 3d. Removed from such a brilliant presentation coupled with my virgin knowledge being wisked away, it was bland and predictable. Mass Effect 3, as far as I know, could suffer from this same problem.  After the first playthrough, it may lose it's flairs, exposing the less than desireable skeleton of the story, exposing all the flaws and lack of decision meaning (you'll have to see the spoilers yourself to know what I'm refering to when I say decisions count for nothing).

I wonder, just how Bioware can get away with an ending that essentially makes the goal of the Collectors and the entire plot of Mass Effect 2, pointless. I wonder how much creative freedom EA actually took from the development team in order to create a game that "appeals to a wider audience". Some of you may need to get a grip. If you do not demand quality, then companies will not produce it. It's the basics of Capitalism. Buy quality, and quality will be produced. The same can be said for the other end of the spectrum. 

Read the spoilers for yourselves, or wait for the disappointment in March. It's your choice. It's also your choice to experience a bland story and portray the utmost talent in mental gymnastics to defend a poorly executed story, or to face the facts and say "Hey, this trilogy started out with a great story, and it should have ended with one as well. I think apologies are in order."

It's our right to form an opinion, sir. We can like what we see, or dislike what we see. I dislike what I see due to lazy writing, cliche story elements, and an anticlimactic set of endings. Hopefully, the presentation will be good enough to justify actually spending money on this game (Maybe Bioware should throw us a demo come Janurary so we can test drive the car before we buy it).

Well, that's all for now, toodle loo.

[txgoldrush]

ElitePinecone wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

There is no conflict found in the file for Thane's role....his role is concrete. Note that the file had sequences out of order. I think Kasumi may very well be a permanant squadmate. to add. Hopefully.

Yeah, the contradiction isn't internal, but some (apparently confirmed?) information from a magazine said that Thane's role in ME3 was different to what was in that document. Instead of the confrontation with Mr Slimy Politician, he worked with Shepard to resolve a hostage situation relating to hanar scientists working on a cure for Kepral's Syndrome.

The 'new' Thane mission was in Xbox World a month or so ago, which would indicate that things may have changed somewhat since this .tlk file was produced. 

Hopefully, Thane still dies anyway but the cure is found for others....the doc would actually be the better outcome storywise...Thane should die.

[Blacklash93]

I imagine most of the main story material will remain the same. For example, the document said there were multiple female Krogans cured of the Genophage that you had to save on Sur'Kesh. But in the demo there is only one female Krogan in need of saving.

It shows that while the main story may see some tweaks, it'll still fundamentally be the same approach and plot.

I wouldn't take anything character or cameo related from the script. As ElitePinecone said, the circumstances for Thane changed completely if the Xbox World article is to be believed. Instead of giving Thane a noble death they opted to appease the fangirls and cure his Kepral's Syndrome.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 08 novembre 2011 - 09:07 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

IF YOURE PoSTING SPOILERS THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THR EFFING FONT OR SOMEHINV HOLY CHRIST YES I MAD

Must... resist... urge... to..... *notices last three words* meh, spoilsport was going to ask if you was

Seriously, I thought you said you were done with the forums till the game came out. Considering how Chris Priestly has been locking other topics with the message to discuss such things here. Might be a good idea if you are sticking around to not keep coming to this topic if you are trying to forget what you've read.

[txgoldrush]

Tinted wrote...

TrumpetzGuy55 wrote...

I'm sick and tired of this hate being spread because people read an early outline of a story without music, cinematic, or even the whole plot..if I were to read to you the entire ME2 plot without context, without the interaction between characters it would sound silly. but with all of the elements together it is a beautifully crafted game. The experience is what is going to really matter. You guys hate bioware stuff so damn quickly it makes me wonder why you ever signed up for these forums. Stop spreading hate, stop telling lies, and stop blatantly bashing a game that hasn't even been released yet.

You say all of this as if we are not allowed to have complaints. It's human nature to form an opinion of things. You can not stop an opinion from being formed, you can not prevent dreams from being shattered by sub par writing. The context is enough, and it's horrid. Deleviery, that's an entirely different story. I'm sure bioware could deliver this awful story in an amazing way that will distract from the story elements. Presentation counts for a lot, it truly does. Avatar is a great example. It's a story retold hundreds of times of a man going native and abandoning the technologically advanced society to join the native, close to earth society. It was an old story, told again with fantastic presentation.

However, presentation does have its limits. You see, even though Avatar was nice, it was only breathe taking for me my first time in IMAX 3d. Removed from such a brilliant presentation coupled with my virgin knowledge being wisked away, it was bland and predictable. Mass Effect 3, as far as I know, could suffer from this same problem.  After the first playthrough, it may lose it's flairs, exposing the less than desireable skeleton of the story, exposing all the flaws and lack of decision meaning (you'll have to see the spoilers yourself to know what I'm refering to when I say decisions count for nothing).

I wonder, just how Bioware can get away with an ending that essentially makes the goal of the Collectors and the entire plot of Mass Effect 2, pointless. I wonder how much creative freedom EA actually took from the development team in order to create a game that "appeals to a wider audience". Some of you may need to get a grip. If you do not demand quality, then companies will not produce it. It's the basics of Capitalism. Buy quality, and quality will be produced. The same can be said for the other end of the spectrum. 

Read the spoilers for yourselves, or wait for the disappointment in March. It's your choice. It's also your choice to experience a bland story and portray the utmost talent in mental gymnastics to defend a poorly executed story, or to face the facts and say "Hey, this trilogy started out with a great story, and it should have ended with one as well. I think apologies are in order."

It's our right to form an opinion, sir. We can like what we see, or dislike what we see. I dislike what I see due to lazy writing, cliche story elements, and an anticlimactic set of endings. Hopefully, the presentation will be good enough to justify actually spending money on this game (Maybe Bioware should throw us a demo come Janurary so we can test drive the car before we buy it).

Well, that's all for now, toodle loo.

whine whine whine...bla bla bla.......

[Ryzaki]

Oh boy. Look if you want Thane dead so much kill him on the SM. There you go. And no this isn't towards the above poster who wrote something totally unrelated. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 novembre 2011 - 09:08 .

[Tinted]

txgoldrush wrote...

Tinted wrote...

TrumpetzGuy55 wrote...

I'm sick and tired of this hate being spread because people read an early outline of a story without music, cinematic, or even the whole plot..if I were to read to you the entire ME2 plot without context, without the interaction between characters it would sound silly. but with all of the elements together it is a beautifully crafted game. The experience is what is going to really matter. You guys hate bioware stuff so damn quickly it makes me wonder why you ever signed up for these forums. Stop spreading hate, stop telling lies, and stop blatantly bashing a game that hasn't even been released yet.

You say all of this as if we are not allowed to have complaints. It's human nature to form an opinion of things. You can not stop an opinion from being formed, you can not prevent dreams from being shattered by sub par writing. The context is enough, and it's horrid. Deleviery, that's an entirely different story. I'm sure bioware could deliver this awful story in an amazing way that will distract from the story elements. Presentation counts for a lot, it truly does. Avatar is a great example. It's a story retold hundreds of times of a man going native and abandoning the technologically advanced society to join the native, close to earth society. It was an old story, told again with fantastic presentation.

However, presentation does have its limits. You see, even though Avatar was nice, it was only breathe taking for me my first time in IMAX 3d. Removed from such a brilliant presentation coupled with my virgin knowledge being wisked away, it was bland and predictable. Mass Effect 3, as far as I know, could suffer from this same problem.  After the first playthrough, it may lose it's flairs, exposing the less than desireable skeleton of the story, exposing all the flaws and lack of decision meaning (you'll have to see the spoilers yourself to know what I'm refering to when I say decisions count for nothing).

I wonder, just how Bioware can get away with an ending that essentially makes the goal of the Collectors and the entire plot of Mass Effect 2, pointless. I wonder how much creative freedom EA actually took from the development team in order to create a game that "appeals to a wider audience". Some of you may need to get a grip. If you do not demand quality, then companies will not produce it. It's the basics of Capitalism. Buy quality, and quality will be produced. The same can be said for the other end of the spectrum. 

Read the spoilers for yourselves, or wait for the disappointment in March. It's your choice. It's also your choice to experience a bland story and portray the utmost talent in mental gymnastics to defend a poorly executed story, or to face the facts and say "Hey, this trilogy started out with a great story, and it should have ended with one as well. I think apologies are in order."

It's our right to form an opinion, sir. We can like what we see, or dislike what we see. I dislike what I see due to lazy writing, cliche story elements, and an anticlimactic set of endings. Hopefully, the presentation will be good enough to justify actually spending money on this game (Maybe Bioware should throw us a demo come Janurary so we can test drive the car before we buy it).

Well, that's all for now, toodle loo.

whine whine whine...bla bla bla.......

Such a well written and thought out post.

Good job, champ. .

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...
So do you think you'll get some kind of reward for kissing Bioware's ass?

Do you think overreacting to an early iteration of the plot with missing context nets you some kind of reward?

[txgoldrush]

Saphra Deden wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

whine whine whine...bla bla bla.......

So do you think you'll get some kind of reward for kissing Bioware's ass?

At least I don't make such a rushed idiotic judgement based off a leaked unorganized draft file.

[txgoldrush]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I imagine most of the main story material will remain the same. For example, the document said there were multiple female Krogans cured of the Genophage that you had to save on Sur'Kesh. But in the demo there is only one female Krogan in need of saving.

It shows that while the main story may see some tweaks, it'll still fundamentally be the same approach and plot.

I wouldn't take anything character or cameo related from the script. As ElitePinecone said, the circumstances for Thane changed completely if the Xbox World article is to be believed. Instead of giving Thane a noble death they opted to appease the fangirls and cure his Kepral's Syndrome.

Hopefully its just a sidequest.......the best case scenario is that they do find a cure but its not for him as he is too late getting it. He would help other drell who have it.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Do you think overreacting to an early iteration of the plot with missing context nets you some kind of reward?

If enough people react to it they might actually rewrite some of it.

...but, who am I kidding? They already said they aren't changing Ashley's uniform so I'm sure they won't change any of the crap in the document.

It's tragic really, watching Bioware butcher its own baby.

And you continue to prove my point.

[DarthSliver]

txgoldrush wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

whine whine whine...bla bla bla.......

So do you think you'll get some kind of reward for kissing Bioware's ass?

At least I don't make such a rushed idiotic judgement based off a leaked unorganized draft file.

Lets not forget that this Leak has shown who is truly loyal to the series vs the people who are only in it for the ride to see how it all ends.  
Also lets not forget Saphra is one of the people that seemed to always be finding a reason to cancel their preorder of the game, this leaked scripted is their excuse to cancel. With DA2 leaving an upset with the fans, their fear of Biowares complete take over by EA is justified by the Leak Script

[MrChowderClam]

Yeah tbh I feel like thane dying is an integral part of his character arc. Hes character clearly revolves around a man who has accepted death and is trying to better himself before the inevitable happens. To have him live seems... I dunno a bit OOT (as unfortunate as that may sound).

[Ryzaki]

Yeah? I saw it the story of a man finding a reason to live but whatever I'll be glad with either outcome and neither will feel "cheap".

[liljay bighead]

Tinted wrote...

You say all of this as if we are not allowed to have complaints. It's human nature to form an opinion of things. You can not stop an opinion from being formed, you can not prevent dreams from being shattered by sub par writing. The context is enough, and it's horrid. Deleviery, that's an entirely different story. I'm sure bioware could deliver this awful story in an amazing way that will distract from the story elements. Presentation counts for a lot, it truly does. Avatar is a great example. It's a story retold hundreds of times of a man going native and abandoning the technologically advanced society to join the native, close to earth society. It was an old story, told again with fantastic presentation.

...

It's our right to form an opinion, sir. We can like what we see, or dislike what we see. I dislike what I see due to lazy writing, cliche story elements, and an anticlimactic set of endings. Hopefully, the presentation will be good enough to justify actually spending money on this game (Maybe Bioware should throw us a demo come Janurary so we can test drive the car before we buy it).

Well, that's all for now, toodle loo.

This is a well written post, and I agree that presentation is extremely important, as is the story itself. If you think back on Mass Effect 1, the story in that is also very derivative and nothing remarkable either. It's a plot about saving the galaxy from a race of ancient evil machines. Wow I haven't seen that kind of plot in 90% of sci fi out there! But the presentation of the story is what saved it. You're presented to in small steps. You first learn of a group called the Spectres, then a Spectre has gone rogue, his flagship can mind control people, and then you find out his flagship is a Reaper and they've been harvesting organic life for milennia. Whoa! And yet, here we are doing that discovery thing again in Mass Effect 3.

Skimming through the leaked script, I don't see this being any worse than what an early script for ME 1 would've looked like. Just for example, think how the end choices for ME 1 would've been like on paper: Shephard must now choose to save the Council, concentrate the attack on Sovereign, or let the Council die. Wait what, that's all the choices we get? Don't the last two choices do the same thing? Why should I choose to save the Council? I suppose Sovereign is a bad guy but why must we destroy it and not try to reason with it first? I had questions of the same vein when I read the ending choices in the leaked ME 3 script; none of the choices made sense and all of them sounded ridiculous. However, that's simply because we don't have the context, and we haven't experienced the full story yet.

[Paulinius]

So why was the whole plot file included in a beta version with just the intro and the Sur'Kesh mission?

Plus the plot seems a lot like Deus Ex, just replace things with Shepard, Cerberus, TIM, Reapers:

JC DENTON spends the OPENING ACT working for UNATCO, an extremist SECURITY organization covertly controlled by the sinister BOB PAGE, who is recognizable by his strange cybernetic eyes and unusual suit. The two rarely speak outside of rare hologram conversations and INFOLINK messages. During the endgame JC DENTON discovers the secrets of his origins and purpose as a creation of HELIOS through EMAILS AND LOGS SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE LEVEL. BOB PAGE tries to merge with HELIOS and THE ECHELON NETWORK in order to ascend, become a computer-God, and decide the fate of humanity. JC DENTON can either destroy, take control of, or merge with the electronic sentience.

Modifié par Paulinius, 08 novembre 2011 - 09:42 .

[txgoldrush]

MrChowderClam wrote...

Yeah tbh I feel like thane dying is an integral part of his character arc. Hes character clearly revolves around a man who has accepted death and is trying to better himself before the inevitable happens. To have him live seems... I dunno a bit OOT (as unfortunate as that may sound).

I find that in the file the details and circumstances of the deaths of Mordin, Legion, and Thane well done which fuffills their character arcs and brings their stories full circle. Some outcomes should not be governed by player choice.

Shepard reading Thane is last rites could be one of the most poignant and standout scenes in ME3. Why cop out of this?

It reminds me of FFVI......there is a reason why Cid dying was a far more popular scene than his survival halfway through the game.

Really the quest mentioned in Xbox World should not be for Thane's life, but for Shepard to secure an alliance with the drell and hanar (that aren't turncoat) against the Reapers. Keprel's syndrome is a problem for the drell as the species as a whole.

Hopefully, storylines are more added than changed in this document.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 08 novembre 2011 - 09:48 .

[txgoldrush]

Paulinius wrote...

So why was the whole plot file included in a beta version with just the intro and the Sur'Kesh mission?

Plus the plot seems a lot like Deus Ex, just replace things with Shepard, Cerberus, TIM, Reapers:

JC DENTON spends the OPENING ACT working for UNATCO, an extremist SECURITY organization covertly controlled by the sinister BOB PAGE, who is recognizable by his strange cybernetic eyes and unusual suit. The two rarely speak outside of rare hologram conversations and INFOLINK messages. During the endgame JC DENTON discovers the secrets of his origins and purpose as a creation of HELIOS through EMAILS AND LOGS SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE LEVEL. BOB PAGE tries to merge with HELIOS and THE ECHELON NETWORK in order to ascend, become a computer-God, and decide the fate of humanity. JC DENTON can either destroy, take control of, or merge with the electronic sentience.

ME3 is NOWHERE near Deus Ex in plot similiairty....DAO perhaps but not deus ex. Never mind that Helios is far different from the Reapers with far different goals. Or the fact that Helios is a merge based on the AI's built by Everett and Page while the Reapers are frpm prehuman times.

[Tinted]

liljay bighead wrote...

Tinted wrote...

You say all of this as if we are not allowed to have complaints. It's human nature to form an opinion of things. You can not stop an opinion from being formed, you can not prevent dreams from being shattered by sub par writing. The context is enough, and it's horrid. Deleviery, that's an entirely different story. I'm sure bioware could deliver this awful story in an amazing way that will distract from the story elements. Presentation counts for a lot, it truly does. Avatar is a great example. It's a story retold hundreds of times of a man going native and abandoning the technologically advanced society to join the native, close to earth society. It was an old story, told again with fantastic presentation.

...

It's our right to form an opinion, sir. We can like what we see, or dislike what we see. I dislike what I see due to lazy writing, cliche story elements, and an anticlimactic set of endings. Hopefully, the presentation will be good enough to justify actually spending money on this game (Maybe Bioware should throw us a demo come Janurary so we can test drive the car before we buy it).

Well, that's all for now, toodle loo.

This is a well written post, and I agree that presentation is extremely important, as is the story itself. If you think back on Mass Effect 1, the story in that is also very derivative and nothing remarkable either. It's a plot about saving the galaxy from a race of ancient evil machines. Wow I haven't seen that kind of plot in 90% of sci fi out there! But the presentation of the story is what saved it. You're presented to in small steps. You first learn of a group called the Spectres, then a Spectre has gone rogue, his flagship can mind control people, and then you find out his flagship is a Reaper and they've been harvesting organic life for milennia. Whoa! And yet, here we are doing that discovery thing again in Mass Effect 3.

Skimming through the leaked script, I don't see this being any worse than what an early script for ME 1 would've looked like. Just for example, think how the end choices for ME 1 would've been like on paper: Shephard must now choose to save the Council, concentrate the attack on Sovereign, or let the Council die. Wait what, that's all the choices we get? Don't the last two choices do the same thing? Why should I choose to save the Council? I suppose Sovereign is a bad guy but why must we destroy it and not try to reason with it first? I had questions of the same vein when I read the ending choices in the leaked ME 3 script; none of the choices made sense and all of them sounded ridiculous. However, that's simply because we don't have the context, and we haven't experienced the full story yet.

You have some good points there, and I appreciate you responding in a mature manner. Thank you, it is much appreciated.

For me, it all came down to motive. Beyond, saving the galaxy, why am I fighting the Reapers. What do they represent? What motive does this enemy have to preform such a "galaxy clensing" every few tens of thousands of years?

Finding out the motive, though lacking great context, provided me with insight. Now I know the heart of my enemy, and boy is it lacking strength. It is the weakness that pervades all lifeforms that inspires my enemy. The Reaper threat is no less "alive" than you and I in our pursuits for understanding. However, for such an advanced being, and such a plan of extermination, the entire set of choices that the Reapers make simply fall into my lap as the immature rumblings of a 14 year old who has just experienced their first existential thought.
I won't go any further, but this motive, along with the "lack of choice" has rubbed me the wrong way. I probably will buy the game, but still, I find my enemy to have a a heart forged from unoriginality, base philiosphy, and incomplete understanding of existence.

[DarthCaine]

txgoldrush wrote...

As for A/K and Liara, it seems like the variants occur due to two points in that quest. If Shepard convinces A/K that Kai Leng is the enemy, than Shep will have to choose between A/K and Liara.

If A/K turns on Shep, there is no choice on who to save, Liara automatically survives.

I didn't see this part anywhere