1663 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

Rosettastoned122 wrote...

Okay so, these leaks came from the beta that is supposedly very old, so why not assume that the story docs are just as old if not older

That's what I've been saying all along.  For some reason people believe that Jessie's statement of "it's outdated", translates to "This is the final approved draft, this is the game's story in a nutshell".

I'm missing the leap here.

[CptData]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm fairly certain in the case of the "Forced deaths" that we find, that there will likely be a way to avoid them. ME1 had a fairly optimal ending. ME2 has an also fairly optimal ending. Why would ME3 be any different. Forcing deaths the way Virmire did only works when done right, and shouldn't be done more than once, really.

I just cut the stuff with the gray letters ...

The only death you couldn't avoid in ME was the death of the non-VS - either Ash or Kaidan. You could choose who's going to die, but you couldn't avoid it. The only truly avoidable death was Wrex on Virmire - and only with "family armor" and/or high rating of paragon / renegade skills.

You can safe ALL squadmates in ME2 and all "forced" deaths were avoidable with exception of Morinth / Samara. I dunno if you can keep both alive by NOT doing the LM and the SM - will Samara survive?

I dunno if you can avoid any deaths. There was at least one death you can't really avoid in ME3 - if the storyarc regarding the Rachni isn't changed. Either [put squadmate here] or [put other option here]. Maybe you NEED to sacrifice some of your squadmates to win the game.

Modifié par CptData, 08 novembre 2011 - 01:10 .

[IanPolaris]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm fairly certain in the case of the "Forced deaths" that we find, that there will likely be a way to avoid them. ME1 had a fairly optimal ending. ME2 has an also fairly optimal ending. Why would ME3 be any different. Forcing deaths the way Virmire did only works when done right, and shouldn't be done more than once, really.

The "perfect" ending is an ending that I consider to be the most evil of all......

-Polaris

[Dariustwinblade]

@CptData

I ment Lang defeats you by two seperates ways.

Either he defeats you. Or you hold him off.

Like the battle in the Object Rho room.

Shepard can hold out the hord of enemies and be knocked out by a pulse from the artifact.

Or he can run out of health and be "killed" by the enemy
Initiating the capture cutscene.

Similar case but with much dire consequence.

If Shep beats Lang, Lang uses pre set bombs to win. But both squaddi live.

If Lang "kills" Shep, shep has to choose between Liara and Vs (if convinced)

This is an ingame consequence.

This is my interpretation.

[RiouHotaru]

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm fairly certain in the case of the "Forced deaths" that we find, that there will likely be a way to avoid them. ME1 had a fairly optimal ending. ME2 has an also fairly optimal ending. Why would ME3 be any different. Forcing deaths the way Virmire did only works when done right, and shouldn't be done more than once, really.

The "perfect" ending is an ending that I consider to be the most evil of all......

-Polaris

Why?  ME2 allowed you save everyone assuming you took certain actions.  Why would ME3 allowing you to achieve the same thing be "the most evil?"

[CptData]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

@CptData

I ment Lang defeats you by two seperates ways.

Either he defeats you. Or you hold him off.

Like the battle in the Object Rho room.

Shepard can hold out the hord of enemies and be knocked out by a pulse from the artifact.

Or he can run out of health and be "killed" by the enemy
Initiating the capture cutscene.

Similar case but with much dire consequence.

If Shep beats Lang, Lang uses pre set bombs to win. But both squaddi live.

If Lang "kills" Shep, shep has to choose between Liara and Vs (if convinced)

This is an ingame consequence.

This is my interpretation.

Ahh okay, that makes sense. Must say I never survived the Object-Rho-Room

Hmm, in that case I'm going to take down Kai Leng. I don't wanna decide between VS and Liara. That's just the worst case of a decision. If I have to ... I'll keep my tissues ready.

Modifié par CptData, 08 novembre 2011 - 01:12 .

[IanPolaris]

CptData wrote...

You can safe ALL squadmates in ME2 and all "forced" deaths were avoidable with exception of Morinth / Samara. I dunno if you can keep both alive by NOT doing the LM and the SM - will Samara survive?

Yes.  You can have a disloyal Samara survive the Suicide Mission provided that Jack is loyal.  To get everyone to suvive without killing Morinth/Samara you have to have a loyal Jack (and you have to have all ship upgrades to insure Jack survives long enough to see the Collector base).

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

RiouHotaru wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm fairly certain in the case of the "Forced deaths" that we find, that there will likely be a way to avoid them. ME1 had a fairly optimal ending. ME2 has an also fairly optimal ending. Why would ME3 be any different. Forcing deaths the way Virmire did only works when done right, and shouldn't be done more than once, really.

The "perfect" ending is an ending that I consider to be the most evil of all......

-Polaris

Why?  ME2 allowed you save everyone assuming you took certain actions.  Why would ME3 allowing you to achieve the same thing be "the most evil?"

Because it requires Shepard to become his own enemy.   That's all I'll say since I haven't had much luck with supressed spoiler text.

-Polaris

[RiouHotaru]

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm fairly certain in the case of the "Forced deaths" that we find, that there will likely be a way to avoid them. ME1 had a fairly optimal ending. ME2 has an also fairly optimal ending. Why would ME3 be any different. Forcing deaths the way Virmire did only works when done right, and shouldn't be done more than once, really.

The "perfect" ending is an ending that I consider to be the most evil of all......

-Polaris

Why?  ME2 allowed you save everyone assuming you took certain actions.  Why would ME3 allowing you to achieve the same thing be "the most evil?"

Because it requires Shepard to become his own enemy.   That's all I'll say since I haven't had much luck with supressed spoiler text.

-Polaris

...Oh, if this has to do with the "perfect game" ending, then no.  I don't believe for a moment that's the only way to do it.  That would be laughably stupid if that were the only way to get an "optimal" ending.

[CptData]

IanPolaris wrote...

CptData wrote...

You can safe ALL squadmates in ME2 and all "forced" deaths were avoidable with exception of Morinth / Samara. I dunno if you can keep both alive by NOT doing the LM and the SM - will Samara survive?

Yes.  You can have a disloyal Samara survive the Suicide Mission provided that Jack is loyal.  To get everyone to suvive without killing Morinth/Samara you have to have a loyal Jack (and you have to have all ship upgrades to insure Jack survives long enough to see the Collector base).

-Polaris

Ahh, okay. I guess we'll see some nice events regarding this issue (lets hope Morinth / Samara reappear in ME3).
Just wanted to know that.

However - ME had one non-avoidable death, ME2 none. ME3 will have some deaths you can't avoid or you need to fulfill special prereqs to avoid them. Loyalty? Morality? Assignments in ME / ME2 done? Whatever ...

[ElitePinecone]

Also just speculating:

Given the conversation that occurs *before* the endings, it's quite possible we'll know things about the universe and about the Reapers that make the 'perfect ending' entirely justifiable. What if the Reapers were built to defend against an even larger threat, or somehow help prevent a cyclical cataclysm (involving, I dunno, dark energy).

I mean, maybe Shepard really does have a good reason for it, if it's chosen. We don't know the contents of that important conversation.

(Though, at first glance, it seems really silly)

[CptData]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Also just speculating:

Given the conversation that occurs *before* the endings, it's quite possible we'll know things about the universe and about the Reapers that make the 'perfect ending' entirely justifiable. What if the Reapers were built to defend against an even larger threat, or somehow help prevent a cyclical cataclysm (involving, I dunno, dark energy).

I mean, maybe Shepard really does have a good reason for it, if it's chosen. We don't know the contents of that important conversation.

(Though, at first glance, it seems really silly)

I don't think that's the reason. If the Reapers where guardians, why do they kill the ones they have to protect?
Doesn't make sense.

However, the Reapers could be guardians of some kind. Maybe they're there to kill races which become too powerful and could dominate the entire galaxy so other, younger races can't arise. That would make sense, but it also would questioning the entire sense of technological and ethical advancement. Why should someone do that if it's the path to doom?

[IanPolaris]

This thought just occured to me. The Reapers could be a kind of pass/fail test for advanced organic life much like the Vorlons/Shadows were in B5 and so far no one has passed the test. Of course that raises the question, "Test for what...."

-Polaris

[ratzerman]

The people who are assuming that these leaks represent the final story aren't fools. They've just learned from experience. DAO, Halo: Reach, Gears 3... big leaks which were written off as "outdated" by devs that all turned out to be very accurate.

[Kanon777]

RiouHotaru wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm fairly certain in the case of the "Forced deaths" that we find, that there will likely be a way to avoid them. ME1 had a fairly optimal ending. ME2 has an also fairly optimal ending. Why would ME3 be any different. Forcing deaths the way Virmire did only works when done right, and shouldn't be done more than once, really.

The "perfect" ending is an ending that I consider to be the most evil of all......

-Polaris

Why?  ME2 allowed you save everyone assuming you took certain actions.  Why would ME3 allowing you to achieve the same thing be "the most evil?"

Perfect ending just means its the one you need the most variables to achieve, just like in ME2 you have to kill all companions to get Sheppard killed (the secret ending with joker as the only survivor). Perfect is just a word the developers use, just like some paragon choices are called "success" and the renagade choices are called "failure" in the text, its just how Bioware organizes the script.

[CptData]

IanPolaris wrote...

This thought just occured to me. The Reapers could be a kind of pass/fail test for advanced organic life much like the Vorlons/Shadows were in B5 and so far no one has passed the test. Of course that raises the question, "Test for what...."

-Polaris

That would explain why they're using some races to reproduce - "test for what" = "test for ascension".
I mean, the races are not fully gone, they're still part of some of the Reapers. Maybe the Reapers are some kind of archive?

Sovereign says their existence is beyond our understanding. Maybe the Reapers don't understand as well? Who made them? Whatever ...

[Kanon777]

ratzerman wrote...

The people who are assuming that these leaks represent the final story aren't fools. They've just learned from experience. DAO, Halo: Reach, Gears 3... big leaks which were written off as "outdated" by devs that all turned out to be very accurate.

The diference here is that we have exemples of data leaks from ME2 that had many diferences from the main game and we have confirmed changes from a very important Thane mission that is never mentioned in the leak. Not only that but only recently bioware started writing the romance arcs, theres alot left to do...

[IanPolaris]

tobito113 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

The people who are assuming that these leaks represent the final story aren't fools. They've just learned from experience. DAO, Halo: Reach, Gears 3... big leaks which were written off as "outdated" by devs that all turned out to be very accurate.

The diference here is that we have exemples of data leaks from ME2 that had many diferences from the main game and we have confirmed changes from a very important Thane mission that is never mentioned in the leak. Not only that but only recently bioware started writing the romance arcs, theres alot left to do...

Actually most of the ME2 leaks were accurate and those that weren't generally involved either minor details or things getting cut (such as the Grunt/Mordin loyalty confrontation).  Also ME2 is a bit of an anomaly because a major plot arc in ME1 was cut out late and had to be reintroduced in Me2 (Cerberus).    The point is the same though.  The basic story arc/plot is (and has to be) finalized early.  As for Romance Arcs, those are honestly part of the "minor details" that can be added late since the romance arcs are there for fan-candy and don't affect the overall game at all.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

tobito113 wrote...

Perfect ending just means its the one you need the most variables to achieve, just like in ME2 you have to kill all companions to get Sheppard killed (the secret ending with joker as the only survivor). Perfect is just a word the developers use, just like some paragon choices are called "success" and the renagade choices are called "failure" in the text, its just how Bioware organizes the script.

I'm not buying it.  Loaded terms (especially when the loaded terms are never supposed to be seen by the public) almost always indicate how the Devs are thinking.  In this case (and it's no great secret) almost all the best choices are Paragon Choices in ME (1 and 2) almost to the point of irritation.  That's one thing I liked about the Sgt Cathka and Elnora renegade choices....those really WERE the right choices in those cases. 

-Polaris

[CptData]

IanPolaris wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

The people who are assuming that these leaks represent the final story aren't fools. They've just learned from experience. DAO, Halo: Reach, Gears 3... big leaks which were written off as "outdated" by devs that all turned out to be very accurate.

The diference here is that we have exemples of data leaks from ME2 that had many diferences from the main game and we have confirmed changes from a very important Thane mission that is never mentioned in the leak. Not only that but only recently bioware started writing the romance arcs, theres alot left to do...

Actually most of the ME2 leaks were accurate and those that weren't generally involved either minor details or things getting cut (such as the Grunt/Mordin loyalty confrontation).  Also ME2 is a bit of an anomaly because a major plot arc in ME1 was cut out late and had to be reintroduced in Me2 (Cerberus).    The point is the same though.  The basic story arc/plot is (and has to be) finalized early.  As for Romance Arcs, those are honestly part of the "minor details" that can be added late since the romance arcs are there for fan-candy and don't affect the overall game at all.

-Polaris

Dunno. Seems the romance arcs could be important for the story in some way. At least the romance in ME had some kind of influence: if you had Ash or Kaidan as LI, you saved that LI on Virmire (still free choice).

I just hope these arcs will be worth all the trouble. Hope VS & Liara story arc don't get dumbed down in favor of ME2 arcs, but also don't wanna see them played down because of "less" significance or something. They're part of the game and they should see a finale. Hopefully a happy end. If there's any.

[Eudaemonium]

RiouHotaru wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm fairly certain in the case of the "Forced deaths" that we find, that there will likely be a way to avoid them. ME1 had a fairly optimal ending. ME2 has an also fairly optimal ending. Why would ME3 be any different. Forcing deaths the way Virmire did only works when done right, and shouldn't be done more than once, really.

The "perfect" ending is an ending that I consider to be the most evil of all......

-Polaris

Why?  ME2 allowed you save everyone assuming you took certain actions.  Why would ME3 allowing you to achieve the same thing be "the most evil?"

Because it requires Shepard to become his own enemy.   That's all I'll say since I haven't had much luck with supressed spoiler text.

-Polaris

...Oh, if this has to do with the "perfect game" ending, then no.  I don't believe for a moment that's the only way to do it.  That would be laughably stupid if that were the only way to get an "optimal" ending.

I think it might be fair to say that 'perfect' in that context probably means 'if you do everything in a very particular way', that is to say it only becomes an option with a very, very specific sequence of past decisions. That said, if not (and the ending is still in the game, t might have been scrapped) there will be a considerable amount of reveal before it.

[IanPolaris]

CptData wrote...

Dunno. Seems the romance arcs could be important for the story in some way. At least the romance in ME had some kind of influence: if you had Ash or Kaidan as LI, you saved that LI on Virmire (still free choice).

It wasn't.  If you saved your LI on Virmire, then the Romance continued.  If you didn't then the Romance was flagged as "over".  This means you can (and I have just to try it) Romance both AS and Liara esp if you do Virmire early.  Genesis (in ME2) confirms this.  If you choose your LI to die on Virmire, the game flags it as though you never had a LI (unless you make another one of course).

The point is this is almost trivial to code since it involves changing a flage and either using or not using one romance scene.

I just hope these arcs will be worth all the trouble. Hope VS & Liara story arc don't get dumbed down in favor of ME2 arcs, but also don't wanna see them played down because of "less" significance or something. They're part of the game and they should see a finale. Hopefully a happy end. If there's any.

I don't see how they can be.  The only romance arc that seems to be getting any serious play/attention is Shepard/Liara and I suspect that will be the default choice if there is any default romance at all.

-Polaris

[CptData]

IanPolaris wrote...

I don't see how they can be.  The only romance arc that seems to be getting any serious play/attention is Shepard/Liara and I suspect that will be the default choice if there is any default romance at all.

-Polaris

Dunno. I don't see Liara!LI as the most pleasing romance, but yeah, Liara gets a bit too much attention, compared to all the hate the VS receives. ME2!LI seem to be "meh" for some guys, maybe because BW designed them that way. They feel more like "one night stands" than full fledged romantic arcs - I had not the same feeling with Ashley (Kaidan - no experience, Liara - no experience).

So in worst case BW will give most stuff into Liara (majority of ME-players like that, ME2 players won't) and maybe half of that for VS and even less for any other LI.
I hope BW is a bit smarter than that. Not everyone likes Liara that much and even less do romance her. I refuse to romance her.

[DarthCaine]

How is a little flirting considered a "romance" ? 'cos that's all there was before Virmire

CptData wrote...

They feel more like "one night stands" than full fledged romantic arcs - I had not the same feeling with Ashley (Kaidan - no experience, Liara - no experience).

Funny, 'cos that's exactly what I felt about the ME1 LIs

Modifié par DarthCaine, 08 novembre 2011 - 02:18 .

[MartinDN]

Seriously why are there still leaks in this very thread ? jesus christ.