1663 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

DarthCaine wrote...

How is a little flirting considered a "romance" ? 'cos that's all there was before Virmire

I was talking about how the game is flagged and designed.  If the "romance flag" is on, then you get one dialog, if it is "off" you get another.  All Virmire does is turn the flag "off" if you sacrificed your LI on Virmire.  That's also how the game determines is AS/Liara get into a catfight.  That happens if both "flags" are "on" after a certain number of major missions (three as I recall) are done.

Really, coding Romance is very superficial and almost entirely "flag" driven at least in BW games.

-Polaris 

[IanPolaris]

MartinDN wrote...

Seriously why are there still leaks in this very thread ? jesus christ.

Perhaps because this is the thread devoted to ME3 leaks?  Just putting it out there (to quote Joker).

-Polaris

[Whatever42]

IanPolaris wrote...

Well.....that's not entirely true.  Anyone can issue a C&D letter for any reason even those that are complete BS.  In this case MS clearly wanted to scare NeoGaf into censoring it's own board....and did.  Pity.  I would almost consider this a SLAPP.

-Polaris

Wow... I didn't catch that yesterday. So Microsoft is the source of the leak. Uh oh... they're gonna have some 'splaining to do.

[Planeforger]

CptData wrote...

I dunno if you can avoid any deaths. There was at least one death you can't really avoid in ME3 - if the storyarc regarding the Rachni isn't changed. Either [put squadmate here] or [put other option here]. Maybe you NEED to sacrifice some of your squadmates to win the game.

Hm...honestly, as the last game in the trilogy, I think it would be great if they keep that in the game - throwing in heaps of unavoidable deaths and challenging decisions at the player.

It's the final fight for galactic survival - wouldn't make much sense if the party can get away without any casualties, and the deaths of people's favourite characters would certainly raise the stakes/get the players emotionally involved.

Modifié par Planeforger, 08 novembre 2011 - 02:26 .

[CptData]

DarthCaine wrote...

How is a little flirting considered a "romance" ? 'cos that's all there was before Virmire

CptData wrote...

They feel more like "one night stands" than full fledged romantic arcs - I had not the same feeling with Ashley (Kaidan - no experience, Liara - no experience).

Funny, 'cos that's exactly what I felt about the ME1 LIs

Depends on the romance. Some of the romances in ME2 don't feel like ONS, others do.

Ashley doesn't feel like a ONS since you have to go through some dialogue between story missions (and every 5 assignmets) before the sex scene. I can't say the same for, lets say, Miranda. If her LI was one of the last before going through the Omega 4 Relay you can say it almost comes out of nowhere - just 3 lines of dialoge and whoa - sexy Miri shows Shepard how to do it.

I think I simply dislike the fact the loyalty mission triggers the romantic story arc for a particular character. There's no such event in ME - the romances happen if you pick the right lines, without some kind of "prereq" except you need that squadmate on board (applies only for Liara).

But yeah, that's a different story.

[Whatever42]

Planeforger wrote...
Hm...honestly, as the last game in the trilogy, I think it would actually be great if they threw a bunch of unavoidable deaths and challenging decisions at the player.

It's the final fight for galactic survival - wouldn't make much sense if the party can get away without any casualties, and deaths of popular characters would certainly raise the stakes/get the players emotionally involved.

We've had 100 page threads on this topic. Let's simply say that people have agreed to disagree on this point on many levels.

[IanPolaris]

CptData wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

How is a little flirting considered a "romance" ? 'cos that's all there was before Virmire

CptData wrote...

They feel more like "one night stands" than full fledged romantic arcs - I had not the same feeling with Ashley (Kaidan - no experience, Liara - no experience).

Funny, 'cos that's exactly what I felt about the ME1 LIs

Depends on the romance. Some of the romances in ME2 don't feel like ONS, others do.

Ashley doesn't feel like a ONS since you have to go through some dialogue between story missions (and every 5 assignmets) before the sex scene. I can't say the same for, lets say, Miranda. If her LI was one of the last before going through the Omega 4 Relay you can say it almost comes out of nowhere - just 3 lines of dialoge and whoa - sexy Miri shows Shepard how to do it.

I think I simply dislike the fact the loyalty mission triggers the romantic story arc for a particular character. There's no such event in ME - the romances happen if you pick the right lines, without some kind of "prereq" except you need that squadmate on board (applies only for Liara).

But yeah, that's a different story.

I hear you about Miranda.  Tali was much the same way. I like Tali as a character, but if you do her loyalty mission early, you can easily wind up romancing her very quickly.  Of course unlike Miranda, at least the Tali lines make it very clear this is what's happening.  Garrus is also very sudden (for Fem-Sheps) but again at least it's obvious.  Of all the ME2 romances, Garrus' feels the most like a ONS to me (but I agree Miranda is close).  As for Jacob, his Romance (and character) is about as exiciting as watching paint dry.

Actually of all the Romance Arcs in ME2, I think the most intriguing one is the near or psuedo Samara Romance (Paragon Sheps only), and of the active Romance Arcs I'd say that Tali's is the one that 'feels' the best and most natural....although the Paragon Jack Romance as a lot to say for it if you like deep but troubled relationships.

-Polaris

[CptData]

IanPolaris wrote...
I hear you about Miranda.  Tali was much the same way. I like Tali as a character, but if you do her loyalty mission early, you can easily wind up romancing her very quickly.  Of course unlike Miranda, at least the Tali lines make it very clear this is what's happening.  Garrus is also very sudden (for Fem-Sheps) but again at least it's obvious.  Of all the ME2 romances, Garrus' feels the most like a ONS to me (but I agree Miranda is close).  As for Jacob, his Romance (and character) is about as exiciting as watching paint dry.

Actually of all the Romance Arcs in ME2, I think the most intriguing one is the near or psuedo Samara Romance (Paragon Sheps only), and of the active Romance Arcs I'd say that Tali's is the one that 'feels' the best and most natural....although the Paragon Jack Romance as a lot to say for it if you like deep but troubled relationships.

-Polaris

Don't get me wrong, I like Miranda. She's my 2nd choice for a LI without Ashley (I stay loyal and don't virmire her).
Tali comes with a very sweet romantic arc - it's a bit of a teen crush - at least, Shepard is Tali's first LI (she's in her early tweens by human standards), I almost lost faith in Ash with my canon!playthrough. It's almost a sad decision to dismiss Tali.
Miranda is more ONSish. I wonder if she's even bringing that up again. I can see it for Tali & Ashley maybe even for Jack if she's paragonized. But not for Miranda. Maybe she's unable to feel love?
As I said, I like Miranda, but somehow I think she's the one who doesn't mind to keep it an ONS.

I dunno about the male romance arcs since I don't have f!Shepards.


So I wonder how romance arcs will look like in ME3.

Modifié par CptData, 08 novembre 2011 - 02:40 .

[ElitePinecone]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Planeforger wrote...
Hm...honestly, as the last game in the trilogy, I think it would actually be great if they threw a bunch of unavoidable deaths and challenging decisions at the player.

It's the final fight for galactic survival - wouldn't make much sense if the party can get away without any casualties, and deaths of popular characters would certainly raise the stakes/get the players emotionally involved.

We've had 100 page threads on this topic. Let's simply say that people have agreed to disagree on this point on many levels.

It's a tough one. 

On the one hand I tend to prefer it when character deaths are tied to actual gameplay or choices (as in, we can prevent them) - I loved the way Deus Ex Human Revolution handled it, for example. 

But then sometimes they can add so much power and impact to a moment - and there are potentially a few of them in ME3 that could be amazing. 

I'm thinking of (MAJOR ME3 SPOILERS) '''Mordin dying as he undoes his greatest regret and cures the genopage, Legion 'dying' in order to advance the geth to true intelligence, Thane killing the man who would doom Kahje (even if that mission might've been changed subsequently) or Grunt getting the bloody death he wanted in the midst of a huge battle. All of these - on paper, at least - seem enormously powerful. Less so the VS who we're apparently either forced to kill in a ludicrously orchestrated betrayal scene (why would anyone trust Udina?!?) or save instead of Liara in an equally bad Virmire-esque choice. 

I'd vastly prefer it if, in the case of VS and Liara, we at least had a way to prevent it by holding out against Kai Leng or some other gameplay mechanic. It seems like such a waste of the death; there's no sense of them having accomplished something or an end to their arc. They just... die. Randomly. '''

But then, part of this being Bioware's story is that we don't get what we want, and if they decide to do certain things in the name of being arguably sadistic to players and causing exsitential angst, all power to them.  

[Bocks]

I'm only dissapointed in the fact that the game has to use a deus ex machina to deal with the Reapers. Thanks, Mac. You're a great replacement to Karpyshyn.

[morrie23]

Bocks wrote...

I'm only dissapointed in the fact that the game has to use a deus ex machina to deal with the Reapers. Thanks, Mac. You're a great replacement to Karpyshyn.

True, but I think that was always going to be the case.

[CptData]

Bocks wrote...

I'm only dissapointed in the fact that the game has to use a deus ex machina to deal with the Reapers. Thanks, Mac. You're a great replacement to Karpyshyn.

I was pretty much expecting that.
You needed two full fleets to take down ONE (!) Reaper. And you needed Shepard to kill Saren!hust to shut down Sovereign's kinetic barriers - (distraction?).

Now we're going to face thousands of Reapers in ME2. Even if you can bring in a fleet being able to deal with a fleet of Reapers you would lose far too many ships to continue the war and dispatch more Reaper fleets. Lets say if ALL big races bring in their fleets for a massive Armada they can take Earth back. But after that the remaining Armada could be too weak to continue the war.

So I kinda was expecting you can't defeat the Reapers with conventional weapons and tactics.

[IanPolaris]

morrie23 wrote...

Bocks wrote...

I'm only dissapointed in the fact that the game has to use a deus ex machina to deal with the Reapers. Thanks, Mac. You're a great replacement to Karpyshyn.

True, but I think that was always going to be the case.

Yes, but it didn't have to be that way.  In all the cycles before, the Reapers suceeded mainly because they had the perfect trap and by the time the victims knew they were under attacked, they were already hosed (as Vigil explains on Ilos).  It might have been far more interesting for the Reapers to be immensely powerful but beatable but only after long decades of combat and only by a united galaxy....in which case Shepard would have been the founding father (or mother) of the Galactic Union needed to push back the Reapers.

-Polaris

[CptData]

IanPolaris wrote...

morrie23 wrote...

Bocks wrote...

I'm only dissapointed in the fact that the game has to use a deus ex machina to deal with the Reapers. Thanks, Mac. You're a great replacement to Karpyshyn.

True, but I think that was always going to be the case.

Yes, but it didn't have to be that way.  In all the cycles before, the Reapers suceeded mainly because they had the perfect trap and by the time the victims knew they were under attacked, they were already hosed (as Vigil explains on Ilos).  It might have been far more interesting for the Reapers to be immensely powerful but beatable but only after long decades of combat and only by a united galaxy....in which case Shepard would have been the founding father (or mother) of the Galactic Union needed to push back the Reapers.

-Polaris

Aye. I'd like to see that scenario. No Deus Ex Machina but good ol tactics and large scale battles. Too bad it doesn't work that way. And I doubt BW will add such scenario to the game. However, it's what I would call a "good ending" - if you consider it as an ending. The Reapers are still there, but they can be defeated. And since they can't reproduce that easily it's just a matter of time until they have to fall back.

[ratzerman]

I expected the deus ex machina.

I didn't expect the demonizing of the Virmire Survivor to not only continue, but intensify.

[Raspberry_]

if i don't have option to save everyone like in ME2 i just not buying ME3. Mass effect is chose your outcome of a story game or so developers say. So i they force me to see character die, and i cant do anything about it i'm just not buying the game simple as that. i don't care about drama i want to save every one of my friends\\crew. one Virmire is more than enough.

Modifié par Raspberry , 08 novembre 2011 - 03:48 .

[IanPolaris]

ratzerman wrote...

I expected the deus ex machina.

I didn't expect the demonizing of the Virmire Survivor to not only continue, but intensify.

I sort of did but only because Bioware did their level best to make VS look like a shortsighted disloyal friend (and it's even worse if they were your LI).  Even Liara in LotSB comments that VS is being incredibly and stupidly shortsighted...and that should have been a clue as to how VS would be treated in ME3.

-Polaris

[jlb524]

Raspberry wrote...

if i don't have option to save everyone like in ME2 i just not buying ME3. Mass effect is chose your outcome of a story game or so developers say. So i they force me to see character die, and i cant do anything about it i'm just not buying the game simple as that. i don't care about drama i want to save every one of my friendscrew. one Virmire is more than enough.

In that case, I don't think ME3 is the game for you.

[LordSerion]

I saw it yesterday and took a peek to see how is my favorite character doing... and I was like WTF? Legion dies?!?!

Please rewrite that part, don't kill the best character of the series!

Modifié par LordSerion, 08 novembre 2011 - 03:55 .

[morrie23]

ratzerman wrote...

I expected the deus ex machina.

I didn't expect the demonizing of the Virmire Survivor to not only continue, but intensify.

This is want got me the most. So BioWare, you kept the VS out of ME2 so you could do that to them. Not cool. I sincerely hope that BioWare has made changes (not holding my breath).

Modifié par morrie23, 08 novembre 2011 - 03:55 .

[jlb524]

IanPolaris wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

I expected the deus ex machina.

I didn't expect the demonizing of the Virmire Survivor to not only continue, but intensify.

I sort of did but only because Bioware did their level best to make VS look like a shortsighted disloyal friend (and it's even worse if they were your LI).  Even Liara in LotSB comments that VS is being incredibly and stupidly shortsighted...and that should have been a clue as to how VS would be treated in ME3.

-Polaris

Now that I think about it, Bioware sure does love betrayal....it's pretty much in every game (Bastila, Yoshimo, Aribeth, some would say Morrigan).

[IanPolaris]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Actually I think the VS was pretty reasonable on Horizon. It is Tali and Garrus (and Liara) who I think acted a bit strange.

I disagree about VS on Horizen but only mildly.  I do think it was appropriate for V/S to be shocked and perhaps a little angry, but the writing was absolutely terrible in that scene.  Shepard had very little choice about working for Cerberus and should have been allowed to say so (and couldn't) and V/S swallowed a whole bottle of "stupid pills".  When Shepard greets VA on Horizen with (for example) Mordin and Garrus, that doesn't sound like Cerberus at all and that fact alone should have at least permitted VS to give Shepard the benefit of the doubt rather than calling him/her a traitor.....which was way over the line IMHO.

However, it's Liara's comment about VS after LotSB (in Shep's Cabin) that forshadowed (at least to me) how VS would be treated in ME3....and it isn't good.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  As for Garrus, Liara, and Tali:

Garrus and Tali are IMO what VS should have been.  They hate/loath Cerberus (and for good reason) but they trust Shepard.  In addition both see the Collector's handiwork first hand (plague on Omega and Freedom's Progress for Tali).  In addition, Tali doesn't stop what she's doing to join Shepard....that comes later and only after Shepard saves her life (again).  That earns Shepard the benefit of the doubt (and the Quarian admiralty agrees but is suspicious).  As for Liara, she was just weird pre-LotSB, but LotSB fixed her character and I think Liara makes the most sense of all...esp if you romanced her in ME1.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 08 novembre 2011 - 03:59 .

[Raspberry_]

jlb524 wrote...

Raspberry wrote...

if i don't have option to save everyone like in ME2 i just not buying ME3. Mass effect is chose your outcome of a story game or so developers say. So i they force me to see character die, and i cant do anything about it i'm just not buying the game simple as that. i don't care about drama i want to save every one of my friendscrew. one Virmire is more than enough.

In that case, I don't think ME3 is the game for you.

yeh why they even bother putting the choices in? if you can do **** to influence any of that. bioware and EA shoud just skip the charade and go for CoD crowd directly. That would save some people form frustration, so they already be warned not to inverst emotinally in to characters or choices or story.

Modifié par Raspberry , 08 novembre 2011 - 04:02 .

[aridor1570]

morrie23 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

I expected the deus ex machina.

I didn't expect the demonizing of the Virmire Survivor to not only continue, but intensify.

This is want got me the most. So BioWare, you kept the VS out of ME2 so you could do that to them. Not cool. I sincerely hope that BioWare has made changes (not holding my breath).

A few pages back someone posted something saying that you can keep both the VS and Liara alive if you defeat Kai Leng, but if he defeats you you must make the choice.